The USA increasingly lacks a feeling of commonality- there are wide cultural divides that Bush and Obama have showcased, and the current economic situation exacerbates them.
Secession was brought onto national media, and various states have made an issue of showing their 'independence', which is purely illusory and grandstanding, but the nation is being warmed to the ideas.
I was born in the year the soviet union collapsed; the South did not know any hope of independence since that day, and time has marched on in Dixie's favour since. I no longer consider seperation in my lifetime a hopeless dream. :)
Do you know where I can get some fake Chanel handbags?
Regional differences are smaller than they've ever been. :mellow:
It's cute how idealistic this board's youth are. :)
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I just took a monumental dump. :w00t:
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 03, 2009, 06:59:50 AM
Regional differences are smaller than they've ever been. :mellow:
Indeed...quite a world-wide trend let alone in the already non-too-disparate US....
Oh, I am not usually optimistic- It is a very hard thing, to make your religion and life's work something that you, on most mornings, are convinced failed and will not succeed in any future day.
I still dont think things will go our way. Colonisation & Assimilation, as well as the great rift between black and white Southerners, are formidable obstacles, the former to the South's very survival. But there IS hope, and even were there not, I will not live to see all events, and that alone is a source of hope. The South will endure long after I am gone, and that provides me with all the immortality I could ever want.
"life's work?"
So you're a professional secessionist? :huh:
What somebody does for income and sustenance is work.
Life's work is the overarching objective of one's time here. Serving the South is my magnum opus, and colours many of the decisions I make in life. Next to serving Dixie, raising a family (which in itself is one of the biggest services I can render my country!) is the only thing of similar scope and importance.
As for my -mere- profession, I aim to be a Lawyer, like my father before me.
Quote from: Maladict on August 03, 2009, 07:08:18 AM
I just took a monumental dump. :w00t:
I've got one warming up in the bullpen. Within an hour, I'll send in the reliever.
What do you love so much about the South and hate about the North?
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 07:12:48 AM
What somebody does for income and sustenance is work.
Life's work is the overarching objective of one's time here. Serving the South is my magnum opus, and colours many of the decisions I make in life. Next to serving Dixie, raising a family (which in itself is one of the biggest services I can render my country!) is the only thing of similar scope and importance.
As for my -mere- profession, I aim to be a Lawyer, like my father before me.
Speaking of which, as jingoistic and xenophobic as you "Dixie" nuts are, how would you possibly hope to compete with global economies? Even if you guys were successful in breaking off, you'd be beggared in a decade or two because nobody would get involved in trade with you. The South might be great, but it doesn't have everything you need for a fully independent subsistence economy.
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 07:12:48 AM
What somebody does for income and sustenance is work.
Life's work is the overarching objective of one's time here. Serving the South is my magnum opus, and colours many of the decisions I make in life. Next to serving Dixie, raising a family (which in itself is one of the biggest services I can render my country!) is the only thing of similar scope and importance.
As for my -mere- profession, I aim to be a Lawyer, like my father before me.
I think there are probably better ways to serve the South than working toward its secession. :huh:
Quote from: Caliga on August 03, 2009, 07:10:22 AM
"life's work?"
So you're a professional secessionist? :huh:
A lot of unemployed welfare queens consider themselves 'activists' of one sort or another.
When I hear the word 'activist', I reach for my Glock.
To Cerr,
I tried to give this serious thought for your sake.
I dont really hate the north, or rather, I try not to do so. (Unsuccessfully, I guess I should admit.)
As for my abiding affection for the South..well, for one, I am just a nationalist, and love my country as naturally as anyone would. She is attacked frequently and defended rarely, and incorrectly cast as a sort of villain for american history, which leads to a very defensive reaction from me.
The South was in many ways Europe transplanted into a new continent, rather than some proposition nation being forged anew with no ties to the old world. That stability that emphasised land and kin above anything else really speaks to me. Although it was based on the Cavalier's Europe, it was left behind, becoming almost unique in the West. The closest similarities I have found are among the carlists or the Travail, Famille, Patrie of Vichy.
The Southern fighting man, his independent nature, his martial culture and self-reliance have always appealed to me, and in particular the tragedy of his defiance against impossible odds, as well as the WW1 level casualty figures the South took in her struggle, strike a chord with me. Reading about these men, and reading the words of these men, they are of a character than is unblemished by any criticism and unmatched by subsequent (and perhaps previous!) eras. Lee is a saint, and a more admirable and inspiring figure than Christ himself, although he is only one amongst an almost endless pantheon of Southern heroes.
I could say I love the food and the language, but I am sure I have merely become conditioned to love these things because I love the South, not that I love the South because of these purely aesthetic traits. I admire its diverse heritage, the disparate strands that were allowed to settle here, and how they retained so much of an individuality prior to 1860, avoiding the ghettos and americanisation (seemingly at odds with each other) of the north.
Beyond any ideological reasons, or the valour, drama and romance of the Southern fighting man, I was taught to love Dixie. My Grandfather told me stories on the family land, and early on I read about and identified more with the South as she was than the South as she is, and learned gradually to reconcile both and appreciate each.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 03, 2009, 07:23:07 AM
Speaking of which, as jingoistic and xenophobic as you "Dixie" nuts are, how would you possibly hope to compete with global economies? Even if you guys were successful in breaking off, you'd be beggared in a decade or two because nobody would get involved in trade with you. The South might be great, but it doesn't have everything you need for a fully independent subsistence economy.
:yeahright:
Ive actually thought about something like that before. The South could be tarred by the same brush South Africa was, and their embargo really hurt. (Despite producing some nifty military hardware.)
South Africa had a wealth of resources, but -the- South has even more, and our situation is not quite so dire that the world would be -that- hostile to us. A breakaway Southern confederacy would be welcomed into the family of nations.
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 03, 2009, 07:16:12 AM
I've got one warming up in the bullpen. Within an hour, I'll send in the reliever.
Preciously few things are more satisfying. A man's legacy might be measured by it.
I was tempted to take a picture to pass on to future generations.
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 07:37:56 AM
Ive actually thought about something like that before. The South could be tarred by the same brush South Africa was, and their embargo really hurt. (Despite producing some nifty military hardware.)
South Africa had a wealth of resources, but -the- South has even more, and our situation is not quite so dire that the world would be -that- hostile to us. A breakaway Southern confederacy would be welcomed into the family of nations.
China's a lot more important now than 20 years ago and they trade with countries with ongoing slavery so...
Though I suppose as this thread is an exercise in alt history, you and Banana could construct a scenario where the Southern US secedes today and receives a global embargo.
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 07:37:56 AM
South Africa had a wealth of resources, but -the- South has even more, and our situation is not quite so dire that the world would be -that- hostile to us. A breakaway Southern confederacy would be welcomed into the family of nations.
I don't think you understand quite how much people dislike a country full of racist religious automatons.
Besides, you could never, ever beat the North.
Dont be silly, neil. The North hasnt been willing to fight any sort of war for at least forty years. The South, farmboys and minorities is what makes up the military. The northern public will reflexively reject almost any war, cringe at the sign of casualties, and reject a war with their former states especially. This isnt 1860.
Not only that, but we have nuclear stockpiles both here and up north. War would be extremely ill-advised.
Finally, assuming it actually came to war, which it never would, the relative strength of north and south has shifted considerably in the South's favour since then 1860. To repeat, though, there would never be a war.
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 03, 2009, 07:16:12 AM
I've got one warming up in the bullpen. Within an hour, I'll send in the reliever.
Well, has it arrived yet?
What would be really funny is how the best parts of the South would want to stay. The Research Triangle, Virginia, Florida.... but the Alabama-Arkansas Axis will make the world shake, no doubt.
Quote from: BVN on August 03, 2009, 08:11:19 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 03, 2009, 07:16:12 AM
I've got one warming up in the bullpen. Within an hour, I'll send in the reliever.
Well, has it arrived yet?
I sent in Pedro Borbon.
Lettuce, let's say a majority of people in the South agreed with you and decided to try to secede... what states do you see joining Dixie? Fae brings up a good point and I'm curious what your thoughts are.
What a clusterfuck that would be...dual citizenship, selling off property at a fire sale, etc. etc.
Well, the idea of NC staying in the union because of cary and all the yankee settlement is laughable.. for now :cry:
Virginia is for the most part lost to us, although Richmonders are still fairly prideful, and the folk below it are culturally Southern. Florida is much the same, except northern florida being the loyalist segment. (And, on that note, wiregrass Florida is one of the more unsavoury parts of the South, even if they are on our side. Oh well. )
Initially, I see the 20th century's confederacy as a five state union. It would be around on par with Australia in terms of population and economy. If it needed to be stated, it would consist of Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, South Carolina and Louisiana.
States that could potentially secede later would be North Carolina, Tennessee and Arkansas. Ideally Northern Florida, stylised seminole, would secede, but this is impractical.
Virginia, Kentucky, Oklahoma and to an extremely minor extent Missouri are a fringe that is lost to the South, although it should not be assumed that because of this they are devoid of good Southern men. Potentially any of them could end up in a Southern confederacy, depending on the global situation, in roughly the order listed of probability.
Edit: Although to be honest, I would be perfectly happy, ebulliant infact, with merely South Carolina seceding. A homeland for Southerners is what I chiefly wish for, not neccisarily an enormous one are all that we are properly entitled to.
edit edit: Also, 'the best parts of the South'- Florida? seriously? Your welcome to the place :lmfao:
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In the name of Don Carlos Buell and the Army of the Ohio, I hereby claim this thread.
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 08:28:19 AM
Virginia, Kentucky, Oklahoma and to an extremely minor extent Missouri are a fringe that is lost to the South, although it should not be assumed that because of this they are devoid of good Southern men. Potentially any of them could end up in a Southern confederacy, depending on the global situation, in roughly the order listed of probability.
:cool:
Quote from: Caliga on August 03, 2009, 08:33:20 AM
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 08:28:19 AM
Virginia, Kentucky, Oklahoma and to an extremely minor extent Missouri are a fringe that is lost to the South, although it should not be assumed that because of this they are devoid of good Southern men. Potentially any of them could end up in a Southern confederacy, depending on the global situation, in roughly the order listed of probability.
:cool:
Says the yankee carpetbagger.
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 08:28:19 AM
edit edit: Also, 'the best parts of the South'- Florida? seriously? Your welcome to the place :lmfao:
Note how I said best parts of the south, not best parts of the country.
...
Anyway, Lettuce, what do you think the African-American majority, as well as the very large minorities in Alabama, South Carolina, and Georgia, are going to think about your New Confederacy? Do you think they'll willingly participate?
Yankees -can- be assimilated. I have seen it happen, and have brought at least three into the nationalist movement myself. There is all the more reason to embrace someone who moves here, holds the land in affection and adopts its customs, as they chose it deliberately rather than by accident of birth.
And anyway, I like Caliga.
Edit: Finally, Faeelin, 'make the world tremble?'? I have no interest in that, nor should anyone. Isolationism is where it's at.
If it pleases you to know, sir, a branch of my German immigrant family crossed the Cumberland Gap circa 1805, settled in Richmond, Kentucky, owned slaves, and sent at least one brave son to fight with the Orphan Brigade. :cool:
This is something I just discovered a year or so ago when one of my consultants turned out to be a distant relation who was descended from that familial line.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 03, 2009, 07:23:07 AM
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 07:12:48 AM
What somebody does for income and sustenance is work.
Life's work is the overarching objective of one's time here. Serving the South is my magnum opus, and colours many of the decisions I make in life. Next to serving Dixie, raising a family (which in itself is one of the biggest services I can render my country!) is the only thing of similar scope and importance.
As for my -mere- profession, I aim to be a Lawyer, like my father before me.
Speaking of which, as jingoistic and xenophobic as you "Dixie" nuts are, how would you possibly hope to compete with global economies? Even if you guys were successful in breaking off, you'd be beggared in a decade or two because nobody would get involved in trade with you. The South might be great, but it doesn't have everything you need for a fully independent subsistence economy.
Yeah. The Japs are doing horribly. :D
Quote from: Caliga on August 03, 2009, 08:39:30 AM
If it pleases you to know, sir, a branch of my German immigrant family crossed the Cumberland Gap circa 1805, settled in Richmond, Kentucky, owned slaves, and sent at least one brave son to fight with the Orphan Brigade. :cool:
This is something I just discovered a year or so ago when one of my consultants turned out to be a distant relation who was descended from that familial line.
Since I'm a story topper, mine flooded out of Tennessee in Grundy County and fought for Granny Lee.
And some stayed and shot at Confederates. :menace:
As to black Southern reaction to a new Confederacy- react horribly, I am pretty certain. The South could not nor would not continue many social programs that community has grown accustomed to, and the black community of the South would herald the inaugeration of a new confederacy fully expecting horrible racial repression.
Worse, some yahoos are liable to think it means the same thing, and do their damndest to sabotage our country with their behaviour. They'd never become mainstream, but it would 'confirm' black fears.
Edit: One of the strengths we have here is the easy familiarity races have with each other. Blacks and whites have been coexisting down here a long time, and you dont see that same aghast reaction you would up north, say, when the black family moves in the neighbourhood. That northern reaction has been replicated to some degree down here with all the yankee immigrants into white flight enclaves, but it is the exception rather than the rule.
Black fears arent unjustified, unfortunately. I wouldent be suprised if segregation came back, at least temporarily. The backs and whites of the South are polarised, which does me a deal of pain, as it hurts our ambitions greatly. Fortunately, I do not think black resistence would be universal, nor would it overcome independence. You'd probably see a great migration up north, but nothing like war in the streets.
(How Northerners react to said great migration would be fantastic for disarming their inevitable accusations of racism and backwardness. )
Isolationism isn't the best track for a small country with a small population and no resources to speak of. Soul-crushing poverty will probably damage the Southern Dream.
Isolationism -promotes- international trade, not prohibit it.
Also, 'no resources to speak of?' You mean, besides all the ones we have?
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 09:18:20 AM
Isolationism -promotes- international trade, not prohibit it.
Also, 'no resources to speak of?' You mean, besides all the ones we have?
Coal, cotton fields, and once their economy finishes collapsing, a labor force as cheap as Mexico's!
You sure do like mexico, dont you, Faeelin? Although, the Northern economy is the one collapsing right now.
You left out the many disperate things grown that arent cotton, clay, gold in South Carolina, iron in Alabama, sulfur and such in Lousiana. The South was relatively blessed with resources.
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 09:18:20 AM
Isolationism -promotes- international trade, not prohibit it.
No it doesn't. Besides, you'd have to deal with the trade embargo from the rest of the world. Even assuming there's no war, people will have the choice to trade with twenty million racist hillbillies, or three hundred million Americans.
QuoteAlso, 'no resources to speak of?' You mean, besides all the ones we have?
Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, South Carolina and Louisiana.
Alabama does agriculture and manufacturing, which is vulnerable to embargo. Mississippi's only products are cotton, crushing poverty and dependence on federal aid (from wealthy northern states). Georgia is probably the most diverse of these five states, but the large agriculture and manufacturing sectors are vulnerable to embargo, and the mineral resources of Georgia are not so unique or valuable that they can't be replaced. Although Atlanta is something of a corporate hub, all those businesses would flee in order to continue being able to do business in the much larger market that is the US. South Carolina is pathetically weak, mainly agriculture with some light industry. Louisiana is similar to Mississippi, but has a larger coastline and the mouth of the river, and a dependence on tourism dollars, which don't exist in an independent South. Of course, it's rather doubtful that Louisiana would be allowed to go anyways.
Im sure china would have moral qualms regarding trade with the Southern states :rolleyes:
Anyway, an economic embargo is unlikely. Not only is there little to no motivation for it, but you couldent get enough of the big players like india or russia to stick. At best there might be something like a north-south trade war, which would admittedly be hurtful, but I dont think even that would happen.
To her shame, Southern states now take in more revenue than they give out to the federal government. The North would no longer have to give us a hand-out, and the South would have the impetus to stand on its own two feet, with a less expensive government tax burden.
Both regions would flourish from secession.
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 09:43:46 AM
Im sure china would have moral qualms regarding trade with the Southern states :rolleyes:
The Chinese aren't really that fond of secessionist regions. ^_^
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They gave arms to pakistan, didint they?
But sure, the South doesnt stir up any ruckus with how China keeps its own house, and in exchange China does the same.
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 09:43:46 AM
Im sure china would have moral qualms regarding trade with the Southern states :rolleyes:
Anyway, an economic embargo is unlikely. Not only is there little to no motivation for it, but you couldent get enough of the big players like india or russia to stick. At best there might be something like a north-south trade war, which would admittedly be hurtful, but I dont think even that would happen.
To her shame, Southern states now take in more revenue than they give out to the federal government. The North would no longer have to give us a hand-out, and the South would have the impetus to stand on its own two feet, with a less expensive government tax burden.
Both regions would flourish from secession.
Not so much moral qualms as there is the risk of alienating the much, much larger (and infinitely richer) American market. Same with India, who would fear the South anyways. The South would have large numbers of unskilled anglophones who would be willing to work for a couple of dollars a day, which would be a threat to India's call-centre economy. Russia doesn't matter in the slightest. The United States would make an embargo stick, even if the South managed to avoid declaring war against the US, which I doubt they could. They've kept an embargo on Cuba for fifty years with significantly less provocation.
No, the South is incapable of standing on it's own. It doesn't have the economic infrastructure to do so, and that which there is depends on the United States. This isn't the 19th century. Microstates cannot survive by preaching isolationism and hostility against their neighbours, at least not if they care about maintaining a standard of living higher than that of a subsistance farmer. Even the North might not be better off, because they've invested serious capital into light manufacturing using cheap southern labour.
Every third line here in nonsense. Microstates? Cuba, the communist dictatorship that allowed nuclear missiles onto its land, providing less provocation?
You are badly misguided on this subject, even ignoring the oddities you sprout. That the South would be downtrodden and broke without the yankees is a common theme among northerners, with little to back it up. Take that 'Mass of unskilled anglophones' comment. College attendence down South is not signifigantly errant from the national average, you know. And nobody seems to take the gulf coast oil into account, either.
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 10:21:33 AM
Every third line here in nonsense. Microstates? Cuba, the communist dictatorship that allowed nuclear missiles onto its land, providing less provocation?
You are badly misguided on this subject, even ignoring the oddities you sprout. That the South would be downtrodden and broke without the yankees is a common theme among northerners, with little to back it up. Take that 'Mass of unskilled anglophones' comment. College attendence down South is not signifigantly errant from the national average, you know. And nobody seems to take the gulf coast oil into account, either.
There's a simple stat to back it up: The South gets more money from the feds than they contribute. College attendence doesn't matter in the South, because an independent South wouldn't have any money, and thus subsistance agriculture would be the only thing they could do. The Gulf Coast is American, and would stay American.
And yes, Cuba would offer significantly less provocation than the South would. The South would be stealing land that is rightfully American. US Army bases would be cut off from the mother country.
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 07:29:54 AM
The South was in many ways Europe transplanted into a new continent,
I believe you're confusing the South with Canada.
QuoteThe South, farmboys and minorities is what makes up the military.
Wrong.
Any way, this is a laughable thread really. And please, do tell how you think the segregation will go in places like Atlanta. :lol:
Good luck
Quote from: Alcibiades on August 03, 2009, 11:43:57 AM
QuoteThe South, farmboys and minorities is what makes up the military.
Wrong.
He's right about the South, wrong about farmboys and minorities (blacks and whites are both slightly overrepresented in the military relative to the population at large).
http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/images/CDA08-05_map1.gif
http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/images/CDA08-05_table2.gif
http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/cda08-05.cfm
Quote from: Alcibiades on August 03, 2009, 11:43:57 AM
Any way, this is a laughable thread really.
I find it profoundly irritating, as I live in Atlanta.
Quote from: Alcibiades on August 03, 2009, 11:43:57 AM
And please, do tell how you think the segregation will go in places like Atlanta. :lol:
Extremely badly, I think.
I suppose Mr. Lettow is thinking that ~40% or so of military recruits the South produces would all join him in his glorious quest to become an inhabitant of a third world nation.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 03, 2009, 12:03:38 PM
I suppose Mr. Lettow is thinking that ~40% or so of military recruits the South produces would all join him in his glorious quest to become an inhabitant of a third world nation.
Yes...so he starts off already outnumbered by 50%. Awesome.
The ghost of Stonewall Jackoff will save the south.
Quote from: ulmont on August 03, 2009, 12:02:31 PM
I find it profoundly irritating, as I live in Atlanta.
I like to disrupt threads like this. it's fun!
Quote from: ulmont on August 03, 2009, 12:08:23 PM
Yes...so he starts off already outnumbered by 50%. Awesome.
All part of the plan...... :shifty:
What about Texas?
You know what would be funny? The 1860-61 Secession votes held in a fair and honest manner...then the truth about the support in the south at THAT time would be known.
Southern fanboism is puerile.
Quote from: Grey Fox on August 03, 2009, 12:33:03 PM
What about Texas?
Counted as part of the South (specifically, west south central ) in the link I gave.
Texas is Texas. It is not a part of any other region of the country.
Similar situation: Alaska and Hawaii (each are their own 'regions').
Quote from: Caliga on August 03, 2009, 12:50:24 PM
Similar situation: Alaska and Hawaii (each are their own 'regions').
Or possibly included as Pacific West.
WTF are you smoking lettuce?
This thread is weird.
Quote from: Caliga on August 03, 2009, 01:48:15 PM
I think it's neat. :)
Included in the weird is the fact that you were gratified by Lettow calling Kentucky part of the South.
I like to feel needed :(
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 10:21:33 AM
Every third line here in nonsense. Microstates? Cuba, the communist dictatorship that allowed nuclear missiles onto its land, providing less provocation?
You are badly misguided on this subject, even ignoring the oddities you sprout. That the South would be downtrodden and broke without the yankees is a common theme among northerners, with little to back it up. Take that 'Mass of unskilled anglophones' comment. College attendence down South is not signifigantly errant from the national average, you know. And nobody seems to take the gulf coast oil into account, either.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/266.html (http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/266.html)
Almost every Southern state gets more money back from the government then they put in. So yes the South would be downtrodden and broke without taking money from those awful liberal blue states.
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 08:28:19 AM
Initially, I see the 20th century's confederacy as a five state union.
You're aware that we're in the 21st century already, right?
This thread most definitely proves that he is not. :blush:
Quote from: Caliga on August 03, 2009, 02:15:14 PM
This thread most definitely proves that he is not. :blush:
But then he wasn't really fit for the 20th century either. Or the 19th. He is just a sad commentary of what happens when too much anime is combined with lost cause revisionism.
Quote from: Grey Fox on August 03, 2009, 12:33:03 PM
What about Texas?
La República de Texas? It will be declared shortly after the Latino uprising of 2011.
I purposely dont mention Texas in Southern secession. While they may well secede, I am fairly convinced it will be a purely texan affair. I'd be delighted if they'd join us, but they are welcome cousins and kin if not direct brothers.
Without Texas you not just fucked but trully fucked 3rd world country like Malawi.
Y'all really overstate how ruined the South would be. We wouldent be at all. Oh well- I guess y'all will have to wait and see, hm?
edit: Your right that with Texas we'd be better off, but that doesnt seem very fair, as we'd be living off the Texan trough. They are welcome to be a free and independent land of excess and riches by themselves, though. I'd be happy to visit. I have a huge soft spot for Texas. :hug:
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 03:14:44 PM
Y'all really overstate how ruined the South would be. We wouldent be at all. Oh well- I guess y'all will have to wait and see, hm?
Heh, I think the rest of the US would also be quite a bit poorer losing the economy of the states that left. So we'd have poorer seceding states, regions and the remaining US all around, I'd have to say. But it's probably likely a state or region could go its own way, though poorer. Much of the trade and business would probably continue as before, since the demand for goods or resources would still be there, but trade laws/rules would be changed.
Ideally, the South would be unburdened by a much lighter tax load, and the North would no longer have to pour money into a net drain, so that both regions would prosper.
Edit: And there is no reason the South couldn't join NAFTA, and approach something approaching duty-free tradde.
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 03:14:44 PM
Y'all really overstate how ruined the South would be. We wouldent be at all. Oh well- I guess y'all will have to wait and see, hm?
You have less a chance of becoming independent than Al Qaeda does of establishing a territorially stable, flourishing totalitarian Caliphate encompassing the entirety of dar al-Islam.
Thanks Queequeg. Hey, did you know all the Russians are dying out, and their military is being infiltrated by muslims? :)
But in all honesty, every year that the russian population dwindles is a year the world is made a little better. Russia is evil.
Ironically the only guy who shares your vision of a sundered America is a deranged Russian professor.
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 03:22:55 PM
Thanks Queequeg. Hey, did you know all the Russians are dying out, and their military is being infiltrated by muslims? :)
But in all honesty, every year that the russian population dwindles is a year the world is made a little better. Russia is evil.
You're a deranged little man, you do know that, right? Somehow you managed to turn me look like some standard of sanity and objectivity. :D
There's nothing insane about wishing genocide upon the russians. It would be nice if we could get their borders to say, old muscovy.
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 03:21:01 PM
Edit: And there is no reason the South couldn't join NAFTA, and approach something approaching duty-free tradde.
This is a topic that has some up quite frequently in discussing Quebec independence.
An independent Quebec (or CSA, or wherever) has no ability to join NAFTA as a right. It would have to negotiate entrance with the other signatories. As part of such negotiations the other parties might well be able to demand concessions of one sort or another.
Duty-free trade is also a hell of a lot less efficient than being within the same country. Would a CSA be able to negotiate a customs union? Doubtful. So suddenly you have long delays at every border crossing, the impeding North-South trade. There's also monetary policy. I see no reason the Federal Reserve would allow the CSA any say in setting monetary policy/interest rates. So The CSA could follow the lead of such strong economies as Ecuador, El Salvador and Panama and just adopt the US dollar without any say in monetary policy, or you'd have to create a new currency and lose the advantage of having the world's most widely-used currency.
You'd get to take your share of the National Debt. I wouldn't count on having such low taxes after that happens.
You might get ownership of military bases within the new CSA, but otherwise you're going to have to rebuild your military from scratch - an expensive proposition. Membership in NATO and NORAD would also have to be negotiated from scratch. I have my doubts the CSA would be invited to join a G8 equivalent.
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 03:39:30 PM
There's nothing insane about wishing genocide upon the russians. It would be nice if we could get their borders to say, old muscovy.
If the Nazis couldn't do it, you couldn't do it, as your beloved "southern warrior" lost against an enemy far less brutal or innovative than the Nazis.
The South would be too big and too large to ignore. In NATO in particular, our removal would be a big chunk of NATO's largest participator- the Europeans if nothing else would be anxious to get us in, as would the yankees, as it would prevent their having to expand their military.
Although, whether we should join NATO is another matter.
Oh, I never suggested a crusade against russia. I am happy to let them off themselves in suicides and alcohol poisoning.
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 03:46:49 PM
The South would be too big and too large to ignore. In NATO in particular, our removal would be a big chunk of NATO's largest participator- the Europeans if nothing else would be anxious to get us in, as would the yankees, as it would prevent their having to expand their military.
Didn't you just say it would be the size of Australia? Plenty of people ignore Australia.
Besides, what do you think people think of the South? If you think 'Yankees' have a low opinion of Dixie, try going to Europe, where the sum total of their understanding of your "culture" revolves around centuries of racial oppression and belligerent ignorance.
People don't like you.
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 03:46:49 PM
The South would be too big and too large to ignore. In NATO in particular, our removal would be a big chunk of NATO's largest participator- the Europeans if nothing else would be anxious to get us in, as would the yankees, as it would prevent their having to expand their military.
Although, whether we should join NATO is another matter.
Oh I agree it's too big to ignore, but you'd hardly be negotiating from a position of strength.
Quick back-of-the-envelope calculations put a 5 state CSA (comprising of Georgia, Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, and South Carolina) at $1,018,000,000 GDP. That puts it at #14 in the world, a shade ahead of Australia, and behind Mexico. World organizations such as the WTO, NATO, IMF, World Bank, could all afford to put the screws to a new CSA when applying for admission. And since all those organizations are dominated by the US, they probably would.
Also in terms of international recognition: even in the 1860s, when the US was far less powerful (and Britain and France far more powerful), no one recognized the CSA. You'd have to negotiate terms of succession from the US before anyone else would touch you with the 'ole 10 foot pole.
Opinions in Europe look to be more positive than here. The Confederate flag waved as the berlin wall fell. I gave a german exchange student a copy of The South Was Right! to take back home. You'd be suprised.
People not liking us, though, is all the more reason to be independent. We are resented for no reason, and it makes me resentful. We aught to take our ball and go home, so to speak. It'd be nice to live in a country where I am not demonised.
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 04:04:38 PM
People not liking us, though, is all the more reason to be independent. We are resented for no reason, and it makes me resentful. We aught to take our ball and go home, so to speak. It'd be nice to live in a country where I am not demonised.
So, basically, Zimbabwe for white people?
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 03:21:01 PM
Ideally, the South would be unburdened by a much lighter tax load, and the North would no longer have to pour money into a net drain, so that both regions would prosper.
Edit: And there is no reason the South couldn't join NAFTA, and approach something approaching duty-free tradde.
Of course there is. Neither the US nor Canada would allow the South into NAFTA.
Why would Southerners have a lower tax load? Wouldn't taxes have to be much higher, since they wouldn't be getting free money from the wealthy parts of America? I suppose the taxes of people who have lost their jobs would be much lower.
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 04:04:38 PM
Opinions in Europe look to be more positive than here. The Confederate flag waved as the berlin wall fell. I gave a german exchange student a copy of The South Was Right! to take back home. You'd be suprised.
People not liking us, though, is all the more reason to be independent. We are resented for no reason, and it makes me resentful. We aught to take our ball and go home, so to speak. It'd be nice to live in a country where I am not demonised.
I don't give a fuck what some German exchange student thinks. What matters is what Angela Merkel thinks. What Gordon Brown thinks. Hell even what Sarko and Berlusconi think.
And what they'll think is that all of them have, or have had, issues with successionists They have no interest in promoting succession in such a key ally.
Maybe you're resented for no reason now. Well you'll be resented for a damn good reason once you break up the USA. And "We aught to take our ball and go home, so to speak" is about the worst possible thinking it terms of public policy.
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 04:04:38 PM
Opinions in Europe look to be more positive than here. The Confederate flag waved as the berlin wall fell. I gave a german exchange student a copy of The South Was Right! to take back home. You'd be suprised.
The Deep South embodies all that people in Europe think it's wrong with the USA, and you can believe that it's a lot.
Quote from: Barrister on August 03, 2009, 04:00:03 PM
Quick back-of-the-envelope calculations put a 5 state CSA (comprising of Georgia, Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, and South Carolina) at $1,018,000,000 GDP. That puts it at #14 in the world, a shade ahead of Australia, and behind Mexico.
And that's as part of the USA. You can expect GDP to drop enormously after a seccession, as all those businesses headquartered in Atlanta flee to the civilized world.
Lettow, what would stop us from rounding up the most radical southerners, killing them, and maybe trowing in some civilians to terrorize the populace further? We're the only effective peacekeepers in the world. The EU didn't lift a motherfucking finger in their own back yard in Bosnia, no way they'd do anything for a people they deeply dislike (up against a people they like, or at least have mixed feelings for), on the other side of the world, who happen to live in the most powerful nation in all of history!
Why are you guys arguing so seriously with him on this?
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 03, 2009, 04:16:31 PM
Why are you guys arguing so seriously with him on this?
Because he finds it upsetting far more than we do.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 03, 2009, 04:16:31 PM
Why are you guys arguing so seriously with him on this?
Because, sometimes, shooting fish in a barrel can be fun. :blush:
Dear God, in a contest of Spellus v. Stonewall Jackoff77, I have to side with Spellus.
:weep:
Quote from: Valmy on August 03, 2009, 02:23:02 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on August 03, 2009, 12:33:03 PM
What about Texas?
La República de Texas? It will be declared shortly after the Latino uprising of 2011.
:shifty:
CA should secede, and as a poor, 3rd world nation, apply for US/UN aid. :P
Latina Uprising :perv:
Queg, America could, although I wouldent be suprised if somehow foreign weapons found their way into the hands of the Southern populace.
If they were foolish enough to do that to the South, and put the average Southerner in a position of resentment to the American government, it'd be the end of America as a world power.
BB: There's the huge difference of slavery then and now. Plus, Secession (Not succession- no Huckabee the Pretenders here) is gaining traction internationally at present.
I just see no reason for this international outpouring of hostility you envision, assuming a peaceful seperation can be affected. As for why I think a peaceful seperation would go through..
- We make up a signifigant portion of the military and have nuclear armament domestically that could be seized in short order, harpers ferry style.
- We are a net drain on the union, providing impetus to let us go.
- Yankees are increasingly weary of wars and the costs associated with them
- Northerners frequently think they'd be better off without us, and resent us. Many would see our secession as an opportunity to finally get america 'right' without the hicks in the way.
At this point I should say that an independent Western Canada would face far fewer obstacles than an independent CSA ever would (although I know it would still face some large hurdles). But being a net oil exporter has a certain way of winning international friends... :shifty:
Lettow, thanks for starting this thread, because it shows us all what a moron you are. :)
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 04:21:49 PM
Queg, America could, although I wouldent be suprised if somehow foreign weapons found their way into the hands of the Southern populace.
True. Chavez and Castro would love to stir up some shit if they could. Putin might even send over a rusting cruiser or two.
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 04:21:49 PM
Queg, America could, although I wouldent be suprised if somehow foreign weapons found their way into the hands of the Southern populace.
If they were foolish enough to do that to the South, and put the average Southerner in a position of resentment to the American government, it'd be the end of America as a world power.
:lmfao:
Didn't stop us from becoming a world power, why would it end it this time? If anything, the period of powerlessness in the South would be great as we'd be able to push through some good legislation. That's what happened the first time.
Quote from: Barrister on August 03, 2009, 04:22:30 PM
At this point I should say that an independent Western Canada would face far fewer obstacles than an independent CSA ever would (although I know it would still face some large hurdles). But being a net oil exporter has a certain way of winning international friends... :shifty:
Somehow i don't see BC joining Alberta in a WCA
Quote from: katmai on August 03, 2009, 04:24:00 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 03, 2009, 04:22:30 PM
At this point I should say that an independent Western Canada would face far fewer obstacles than an independent CSA ever would (although I know it would still face some large hurdles). But being a net oil exporter has a certain way of winning international friends... :shifty:
Somehow i don't see BC joining Alberta in a WCA
Probably not. But who knows what the future might bring...
Quote from: Barrister on August 03, 2009, 04:22:30 PM
At this point I should say that an independent Western Canada would face far fewer obstacles than an independent CSA ever would (although I know it would still face some large hurdles). But being a net oil exporter has a certain way of winning international friends... :shifty:
We could make you a state. We'd be more than happy to, actually. Or even a couple of states. Heck, it would help us fuckover the south, come to think of it. :)
It'd be a partisan war this time around, my russophile. Low intensity warfare across a huge area -against- the only martial-minded section of the country is exactly what America doesnt need. How long until the hippie protesters demand the troops pull out?
It would drain american money, american lives, and damage her prestige internationally. It would destabilise the republic and demoralise the people.
Quote from: Queequeg on August 03, 2009, 04:27:36 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 03, 2009, 04:22:30 PM
At this point I should say that an independent Western Canada would face far fewer obstacles than an independent CSA ever would (although I know it would still face some large hurdles). But being a net oil exporter has a certain way of winning international friends... :shifty:
We could make you a state. We'd be more than happy to, actually. Or even a couple of states. Heck, it would help us fuckover the south, come to think of it. :)
No you wouldn't. You'd gain 3 strongly democratic states as compared to one mildly republican one.
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 04:28:14 PM
It'd be a partisan war this time around, my russophile. Low intensity warfare across a huge area -against- the only martial-minded section of the country is exactly what America doesnt need. How long until the hippie protesters demand the troops pull out?
It would drain american money, american lives, and damage her prestige internationally. It would destabilise the republic and demoralise the people.
A few pages ago you were saying there'd be no war.
The "only martial-minded section of the country"? :lol: The south is as soft as any other place. Plus even if you could get a slim majority in facour of succession, you'd still have a very significant minority still in favour of continued ties.
One of the few honourable things that Lee and others did was to spare their contrymen the horrors of a protracted guerilla war. Why would you throw that legacy away?
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 04:28:14 PM
It'd be a partisan war this time around, my russophile. Low intensity warfare across a huge area -against- the only martial-minded section of the country is exactly what America doesnt need. How long until the hippie protesters demand the troops pull out?
It would drain american money, american lives, and damage her prestige internationally. It would destabilise the republic and demoralise the people.
You are drastically overestimating the South's "martial nature", as last time I checked the average Russian partizan didn't work at Wallmart or weigh 300 pounds. Actually, last time I checked, West Point, generally speaking the Officer Corps, not to mention a lot of the best minds in the defense industry, were NOT from rural Alabama.
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 04:21:49 PM
- Northerners frequently think they'd be better off without us, and resent us. Many would see our secession as an opportunity to finally get america 'right' without the hicks in the way.
I think the South has made some truly exceptional cultural additions to this country, but I think the "southern mindset" is barbaric. Unity will bring about the Master American Identity to move forward to our destiny DESTINY.
Quote from: Queequeg on August 03, 2009, 04:37:32 PM
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 04:21:49 PM
- Northerners frequently think they'd be better off without us, and resent us. Many would see our secession as an opportunity to finally get america 'right' without the hicks in the way.
I think the South has made some truly exceptional cultural additions to this country, but I think the "southern mindset" is barbaric. Unity will bring about the Master American Identity to move forward to our destiny DESTINY.
Phew. Ishmail here was making too much sense for awhile. Now I am reminded he is still insane. :)
Mew
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 08:28:19 AM
Initially, I see the 20th century's confederacy as a five state union. It would be around on par with Australia in terms of population and economy. If it needed to be stated, it would consist of Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, South Carolina and Louisiana.
It would be like Australia if you took away the abundant natural resources, and if replaced them with the worst educational systems and public health in the western world.
Quote from: Barrister on August 03, 2009, 04:42:04 PM
Phew. Ishmail here was making too much sense for awhile. Now I am reminded he is still insane. :)
It's a Fallout thing. Felt like throwing in a random reference somewhere.
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 07:29:54 AM
Although it was based on the Cavalier's Europe, it was left behind, becoming almost unique in the West. The closest similarities I have found are among the carlists or the Travail, Famille, Patrie of Vichy.
Oh wow -- where do I sign up?
BB- There'd be no war. I am referring to Spellus's comment about the american military rounding up and killing secessionists, and terrorising the Southern civilians while they are at it. Basically, he is suggesting a war be inaugerated.
Also, pfft to West Point. All the cool kids go to VMI or The Citadel. Moreover, the average Southerner is neither 300 pounds nor does he work at wal-mart.
Finally, even West Point has an even higher proportion of Southerners in it than the military itself. So there.
Quote from: Queequeg on August 03, 2009, 04:45:49 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 03, 2009, 04:42:04 PM
Phew. Ishmail here was making too much sense for awhile. Now I am reminded he is still insane. :)
It's a Fallout thing. Felt like throwing in a random reference somewhere.
Fallout sucks.
:)
I feel like punching Jefferson Davis in the throat.
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 04:50:03 PM
Also, pfft to West Point. All the cool kids go to VMI or The Citadel. Moreover, the average Southerner is neither 300 pounds nor does he work at wal-mart.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.treehugger.com%2Fobesity-usa.jpg&hash=aa878114156647115d7aff08eef1798dc638142e)
Quote from: FunkMonk on August 03, 2009, 04:54:30 PM
I feel like punching Jefferson Davis in the throat.
Now now. We need out meth suppliers, white trash, 3 children by age 19 and Yosemite Sam mud flaps.
Cal adds 4 points to the kentucky score.
While the South's paunch is something to be proud of, 31% obese isnt 300 pounds average.
I intend to be fat later in life myself. It is a tradition.
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 05:00:25 PM
While the South's paunch is something to be proud of, 31 BMI isnt 300 pounds.
I intend to be fat later in life myself. It is a tradition.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.wonkette.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F08%2Ffat-blogger.jpg&hash=26fa75c6e40466c90c8962c61331b293124d6a5e)
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 05:00:25 PM
While the South's paunch is something to be proud of,
Meowtf?
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 03, 2009, 04:58:00 PM
Cal adds 4 points to the kentucky score.
He's not that fat.
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 03, 2009, 04:57:17 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on August 03, 2009, 04:54:30 PM
I feel like punching Jefferson Davis in the throat.
Now now. We need out meth suppliers, white trash, 3 children by age 19 and Yosemite Sam mud flaps.
Don't forget those steel balls hanging on the back of pickup trucks. :lol:
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 05:00:25 PM
I intend to be fat later in life myself. It is a tradition.
So are selling off the bodyparts of lynched African Americans, bitching about lost wars 150 years after the fact, bestiality and aggressive ignorance. The world is better off without some traditions.
Quote from: Weatherman on August 03, 2009, 05:02:10 PM
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 05:00:25 PM
While the South's paunch is something to be proud of, 31 BMI isnt 300 pounds.
I intend to be fat later in life myself. It is a tradition.
HORRIFIC IMAGE
Good Christ, I'm eating. :x
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 03, 2009, 05:03:18 PM
Quote from: Weatherman on August 03, 2009, 05:02:10 PM
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 05:00:25 PM
While the South's paunch is something to be proud of, 31 BMI isnt 300 pounds.
I intend to be fat later in life myself. It is a tradition.
HORRIFIC IMAGE
Good Christ, I'm eating. :x
You know better than to eat and read Languish.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 03, 2009, 05:02:34 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 03, 2009, 04:58:00 PM
Cal adds 4 points to the kentucky score.
He's not that fat.
*sigh*
You = (https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thomasarmstrong.co.uk%2Fimages%2FNetBuild%2FDense_Blocks_-_web.JPG&hash=62fb00304915045816f0ee2618ed8f92a7d93458)
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 03, 2009, 05:03:18 PM
Good Christ, I'm eating. :x
Horrific? When did you first start using the internet?
I'm also not sure exactly where Dan Cook gets off making fun of people for their weight.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 03, 2009, 05:03:18 PM
Quote from: Weatherman on August 03, 2009, 05:02:10 PM
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 05:00:25 PM
While the South's paunch is something to be proud of, 31 BMI isnt 300 pounds.
I intend to be fat later in life myself. It is a tradition.
HORRIFIC IMAGE
Good Christ, I'm eating. :x
This sort of thing stimulates your appetite enough to make you post orgiasticly about the fact?
Quote from: ulmont on August 03, 2009, 12:02:31 PM
Extremely badly, I think.
I think the most amazing data here is the 0.42 Recruit/Population Ratio for mixed race individuals. Are they all liberals? Or do only liberals produce mulattos? Or do mixed race individuals not receive the societal re-enforcement to join that other groups might because they are not fully "in" any group.
Any comments?
Quote from: Queequeg on August 03, 2009, 04:56:26 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.treehugger.com%2Fobesity-usa.jpg&hash=aa878114156647115d7aff08eef1798dc638142e)
It's true that you don't see many fat Mormons.
OK, I'm diving in on the 10th page, and haven't read the thread.
What I'd miss? Lettuce saving his Confederate money again?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 03, 2009, 06:13:50 PM
It's true that you don't see many fat Mormons.
Not too many African-American Mormons, you know.
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 04:50:03 PM
Finally, even West Point has an even higher proportion of Southerners in it than the military itself. So there.
You are incorrect. West Point has a higher proportion of Northeasterners than the military itself; every other region is found in higher proportion in the military generally.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/images/CDA08-05_table5.gif
http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/images/CDA08-05_map1.gif
Quote from: Weatherman on August 03, 2009, 05:02:10 PM
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 05:00:25 PM
While the South's paunch is something to be proud of, 31 BMI isnt 300 pounds.
I intend to be fat later in life myself. It is a tradition.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.wonkette.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F08%2Ffat-blogger.jpg&hash=26fa75c6e40466c90c8962c61331b293124d6a5e)
Isn't that the guy who writes those Song of Fire and Ice books that Martinus likes?
Quote from: Viking on August 03, 2009, 06:12:24 PM
I think the most amazing data here is the 0.42 Recruit/Population Ratio for mixed race individuals. Are they all liberals? Or do only liberals produce mulattos? Or do mixed race individuals not receive the societal re-enforcement to join that other groups might because they are not fully "in" any group.
"Mixed race" is not an option you're forced to pick. The people who refuse to identify or be identified primarily as only one of their races are probably disproportionately liberal, while the others just feed into one of the other categories.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 03, 2009, 06:14:01 PM
OK, I'm diving in on the 10th page, and haven't read the thread.
What I'd miss? Lettuce saving his Confederate money again?
He probably bought some Confederate Bonds at 1 cent on the dollar at some daughters of the glorious dead fundraiser.
Quote from: Neil on August 03, 2009, 06:23:58 PM
Quote from: Weatherman on August 03, 2009, 05:02:10 PM
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 05:00:25 PM
While the South's paunch is something to be proud of, 31 BMI isnt 300 pounds.
I intend to be fat later in life myself. It is a tradition.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.wonkette.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F08%2Ffat-blogger.jpg&hash=26fa75c6e40466c90c8962c61331b293124d6a5e)
Isn't that the guy who writes those Song of Fire and Ice books that Martinus likes?
Actually does look like it.
Quote from: Viking on August 03, 2009, 06:12:24 PM
Quote from: ulmont on August 03, 2009, 12:02:31 PM
Extremely badly, I think.
I think the most amazing data here is the 0.42 Recruit/Population Ratio for mixed race individuals. Are they all liberals? Or do only liberals produce mulattos? Or do mixed race individuals not receive the societal re-enforcement to join that other groups might because they are not fully "in" any group.
Any comments?
One drop rule, they just report themselves as African-American
Quote from: Neil on August 03, 2009, 06:23:58 PM
Isn't that the guy who writes those Song of Fire and Ice books that Martinus likes?
I thought the same thing! :lol:
Maybe someone 'shopped his head on a fat guy.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 03, 2009, 07:53:27 AM
China's a lot more important now than 20 years ago and they trade with countries with ongoing slavery so...
Though I suppose as this thread is an exercise in alt history, you and Banana could construct a scenario where the Southern US secedes today and receives a global embargo.
All I was saying is how are they gonna fuel the tractors when they realize the big oil contracts come from "brown pipple" countries?
This thread fails at alt history. Nobody has established a reasonable sequence of events leading to Lettow's 5 state confederacy. Without such a sequence, it's silly to say how non-viable that nation would be as it wouldn't come into being in the first place.
p.s. You're all very annoying, Lettow most of all.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 03, 2009, 08:26:13 PM
This thread fails at alt history. Nobody has established a reasonable sequence of events leading to Lettow's 5 state confederacy. Without such a sequence, it's silly to say how non-viable that nation would be as it wouldn't come into being in the first place.
p.s. You're all very annoying, Lettow most of all.
:yeahright: Not interested in alt history so much as crushing Lettow's dreams of a confederate world power; just pointing out why the confederacy of his wet dreams would not be possible.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 03, 2009, 08:26:13 PM
This thread fails at alt history. Nobody has established a reasonable sequence of events leading to Lettow's 5 state confederacy. Without such a sequence, it's silly to say how non-viable that nation would be as it wouldn't come into being in the first place.
1) Birthers take over the legislatures of the 5 states involved (this step may already have happened).
2) Each state declares itself to be seceding due to Obama being Kenyan.
3) The rest of the country says "Please, God, just fucking leave."
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 03, 2009, 08:26:13 PM
p.s. You're all very annoying, Lettow most of all.
:hug:
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 03, 2009, 08:26:13 PM
This thread fails at alt history. Nobody has established a reasonable sequence of events leading to Lettow's 5 state confederacy. Without such a sequence, it's silly to say how non-viable that nation would be as it wouldn't come into being in the first place.
p.s. You're all very annoying, Lettow most of all.
Tim is supposed to have come up with a map and a chronology. But he is too busy. Congrats. You are the new Tim.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 03, 2009, 08:41:22 PM
Tim is supposed to have come up with a map and a chronology. But he is too busy. Congrats. You are the new Tim.
Chronology:
CSA loses Civil War
People get over it
Map:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kidney.org%2Fabout%2Fimages%2FusMap550px.gif&hash=4a0a1f696488f8aba925b8396a884c824c5b5aeb)
That map sucks. Fit for Paradox!
Quote from: ulmont on August 03, 2009, 06:21:33 PM
Quote from: Lettow77 on August 03, 2009, 04:50:03 PM
Finally, even West Point has an even higher proportion of Southerners in it than the military itself. So there.
You are incorrect. West Point has a higher proportion of Northeasterners than the military itself; every other region is found in higher proportion in the military generally.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/images/CDA08-05_table5.gif
http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/images/CDA08-05_map1.gif
Seriously, why bother reputing his 'facts'? He's literally made up every single one in this thread.
I honestly didn't think this thread would go this long. :huh:
Quote from: citizen k on August 03, 2009, 09:44:19 PM
I honestly didn't think this thread would go this long. :huh:
This is Languish. We take our silliness very seriously.
Quote from: Alcibiades on August 03, 2009, 09:21:58 PM
Seriously, why bother reputing his 'facts'? He's literally made up every single one in this thread.
http://xkcd.com/386/
Quote from: citizen k on August 03, 2009, 09:44:19 PM
I honestly didn't think this thread would go this long. :huh:
What do you mean? It's got the ultimate formula: Lettow, so the mockery brigade lets loose. And it's about the Southern States seceding at some point in the future, which brings together the fine and ancient Languish topics of the ACW and alt-history.
Quote from: Neil on August 03, 2009, 10:08:01 AM
No, the South is incapable of standing on it's own. It doesn't have the economic infrastructure to do so, and that which there is depends on the United States. This isn't the 19th century. Microstates cannot survive by preaching isolationism and hostility against their neighbours, at least not if they care about maintaining a standard of living higher than that of a subsistance farmer. Even the North might not be better off, because they've invested serious capital into light manufacturing using cheap southern labour.
In fantasy, the author gets to make his rules as he goes along. As long as you are allowing Lettow to fantacize that Southers want to be independent, you can let him fantasize that the South has a viable economy and that Southernors are educated and politically skilled. :cool:
Quote from: grumbler on August 03, 2009, 10:32:08 PM
Southernors are educated and politically skilled. :cool:
I knew he was over rated.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fworldofwonder.net%2F2009%2F05%2F30%2Fd4816ee0_620.jpg&hash=f71dcfeaa665612e08fc68393e6bdef479614795)
Quote from: citizen k on August 03, 2009, 11:46:47 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 03, 2009, 10:32:08 PM
Southernors are educated and politically skilled. :cool:
I knew he was over rated.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fworldofwonder.net%2F2009%2F05%2F30%2Fd4816ee0_620.jpg&hash=f71dcfeaa665612e08fc68393e6bdef479614795)
Lewis Black agrees, esp. about Southern Education (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt_X2IoIaoQ) and Clinton taking Arkansas from 50th to 49th during his time as governor.
Quote from: citizen k on August 03, 2009, 11:46:47 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fworldofwonder.net%2F2009%2F05%2F30%2Fd4816ee0_620.jpg&hash=f71dcfeaa665612e08fc68393e6bdef479614795)
God he's HOTT. :perv:
I came late to this long thread. has anyhow seceded yet? or at least started an insurrection?
Quote from: saskganesh on August 04, 2009, 08:33:53 AM
I came late to this long thread. has anyhow seceded yet? or at least started an insurrection?
No, but on the other hand there were a least two people who took a monumental dump in the meantime...
Quote from: saskganesh on August 04, 2009, 08:33:53 AM
I came late to this long thread. has anyhow seceded yet? or at least started an insurrection?
I've had an erection.
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 04, 2009, 08:57:07 AMI've had an erection.
Pass the Viagra on the left hand side :(
Quote from: Caliga on August 04, 2009, 06:52:13 AM
Quote from: citizen k on August 03, 2009, 11:46:47 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fworldofwonder.net%2F2009%2F05%2F30%2Fd4816ee0_620.jpg&hash=f71dcfeaa665612e08fc68393e6bdef479614795)
God he's HOTT. :perv:
He's over in North Korea today.
Think Kim Jong Il lets him sample his harem?
My first thought when I saw Clinton got involved in this was that he must have an Asian chick fetish. :)
BREAKING: Chicks pardoned. Clinton gets a happy ending. :)
Quote from: Caliga on August 04, 2009, 02:26:56 PM
BREAKING: Chicks pardoned. Clinton gets a happy ending. :)
I wonder if they will express their ... appreciation ... personally. ;)
Quote from: Malthus on August 04, 2009, 02:29:08 PM
Quote from: Caliga on August 04, 2009, 02:26:56 PM
BREAKING: Chicks pardoned. Clinton gets a happy ending. :)
I wonder if they will express their ... appreciation ... personally. ;)
They were both kind of cute, right? I wonder at what age a threesome with two extremely grateful late 20-early 30 year old, hot Asian chicks is just too much for a man. Hopefully never.
Quote from: Queequeg on August 04, 2009, 02:54:25 PM
They were both kind of cute, right?
One definitely was... unsure about the other.
Please do not derail such a precious thread, thank you.
Quote from: Caliga on August 04, 2009, 02:26:56 PM
BREAKING: Chicks pardoned. Clinton gets a happy ending. :)
Please don't say chinks. :mad: