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Tea Partiers harassed by IRS?

Started by Sheilbh, May 11, 2013, 07:37:35 PM

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Admiral Yi

The question is not whether they can be attacked; diplomats *can* be attacked just about anywhere in the world.  The question is whether the host country can provide a reasonable degree of security.  If they cannot, then the question becomes whether we can provide a reasonable degree of security using our own resouces, as we have been doing in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Razgovory

Quote from: derspiess on May 20, 2013, 04:21:48 PM
Libya wasn't just any third world country.  It was a war-torn country with jihadists running around. 

What I would like cleared up at this point are: why nothing was done to try and assist the ambassador and his bodyguards during the siege (apparently some special forces types in Tripoli were ready to move but were told to stand down), and why Obama apparently dumped it all on Panetta at 5:00pm that day and detached himself from the whole situation.

Were is your source on this "standing down"?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Valmy

:bleeding: Oh FFS what have I done?

I meant 'at worst' there Raz.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

CountDeMoney

Quote from: alfred russel on May 20, 2013, 04:04:40 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 20, 2013, 03:48:13 PM

You think he should be walking around with a Company of Marines?

Either that or its equivalent, or not gone at all.

That's not your call;  that's the ambassador's.

11B4V

"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

Razgovory

Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 20, 2013, 04:22:20 PM
The question is not whether they can be attacked; diplomats *can* be attacked just about anywhere in the world.  The question is whether the host country can provide a reasonable degree of security.  If they cannot, then the question becomes whether we can provide a reasonable degree of security using our own resouces, as we have been doing in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The United States was an occupying force in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

derspiess

Quote from: Razgovory on May 20, 2013, 04:23:18 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 20, 2013, 04:21:48 PM
Libya wasn't just any third world country.  It was a war-torn country with jihadists running around. 

What I would like cleared up at this point are: why nothing was done to try and assist the ambassador and his bodyguards during the siege (apparently some special forces types in Tripoli were ready to move but were told to stand down), and why Obama apparently dumped it all on Panetta at 5:00pm that day and detached himself from the whole situation.

Were is your source on this "standing down"?

Gregory Hicks's testimony a week & a half ago.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57583014/diplomat-u.s-special-forces-told-you-cant-go-to-benghazi-during-attacks/
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

11B4V

Quote from: derspiess on May 20, 2013, 04:31:44 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 20, 2013, 04:23:18 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 20, 2013, 04:21:48 PM
Libya wasn't just any third world country.  It was a war-torn country with jihadists running around. 

What I would like cleared up at this point are: why nothing was done to try and assist the ambassador and his bodyguards during the siege (apparently some special forces types in Tripoli were ready to move but were told to stand down), and why Obama apparently dumped it all on Panetta at 5:00pm that day and detached himself from the whole situation.

Were is your source on this "standing down"?

Gregory Hicks's testimony a week & a half ago.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57583014/diplomat-u.s-special-forces-told-you-cant-go-to-benghazi-during-attacks/

Funny how that was a week and a half ago, eh. Yet Raz has no clue.
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Razgovory on May 20, 2013, 04:31:19 PM
The United States was an occupying force in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Yes it was.

alfred russel

Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 20, 2013, 04:26:39 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on May 20, 2013, 04:04:40 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 20, 2013, 03:48:13 PM

You think he should be walking around with a Company of Marines?

Either that or its equivalent, or not gone at all.

That's not your call;  that's the ambassador's.

The ambassador has a responsibility to keep himself safe. It isn't just about his own life: it creates a shitstorm when an ambassador gets killed.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

CountDeMoney

Quote from: alfred russel on May 20, 2013, 04:36:32 PM
The ambassador has a responsibility to keep himself safe. It isn't just about his own life: it creates a shitstorm when an ambassador gets killed.

The ambassador was dedicated to BUILDING BRIDGES with ENGAGEMENT.

alfred russel

Quote from: Razgovory on May 20, 2013, 04:16:22 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on May 20, 2013, 04:04:40 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 20, 2013, 03:48:13 PM

You think he should be walking around with a Company of Marines?

Either that or its equivalent, or not gone at all.

Okay, the first one is not really something we can do.  Most countries object to large groups of very heavily armed men wandering through their country.  The second one means we would have to withdraw or severely limit our diplomatic activities in a whole bunch of countries.  Like most of Africa, the Middle East and several Latin American countries.  This doesn't seem like a good solution.

When you put diplomatic personnel in a country you accept a risk that they could be attacked.  If this is an example of ineptness then every President since Washington has been guilty of it.

Raz, the ambassadors to many countries are protected by marines. The marines don't go wandering through the hotspots in war torn countries, but then neither do ambassadors.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: derspiess on May 20, 2013, 01:08:56 PM
Lois Lerner gets 4 Pinocchios, Languish to complain about Pinnochio inflation.

Yeah the Pinocchio claim is really quite weak.  Especially when the main attack is on the numbers, and WaPo doesn't even have the numbers for 2012.  If this is 4 out of 4 what is left when there is a real set of bald faced lies?
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

garbon

Quote from: 11B4V on May 20, 2013, 04:33:28 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 20, 2013, 04:31:44 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 20, 2013, 04:23:18 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 20, 2013, 04:21:48 PM
Libya wasn't just any third world country.  It was a war-torn country with jihadists running around. 

What I would like cleared up at this point are: why nothing was done to try and assist the ambassador and his bodyguards during the siege (apparently some special forces types in Tripoli were ready to move but were told to stand down), and why Obama apparently dumped it all on Panetta at 5:00pm that day and detached himself from the whole situation.

Were is your source on this "standing down"?

Gregory Hicks's testimony a week & a half ago.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57583014/diplomat-u.s-special-forces-told-you-cant-go-to-benghazi-during-attacks/

Funny how that was a week and a half ago, eh. Yet Raz has no clue.

Why? Sane people generally have their eyes glaze over when someone mentions Benghazi.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

alfred russel

Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 20, 2013, 04:39:02 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on May 20, 2013, 04:36:32 PM
The ambassador has a responsibility to keep himself safe. It isn't just about his own life: it creates a shitstorm when an ambassador gets killed.

The ambassador was dedicated to BUILDING BRIDGES with ENGAGEMENT.

Nick Berg had a similar plan.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014