Call the Electoral Vote

[Neil]

Agreed, but no one is going to even try that so long as there is little to no support for even the fringe groups.

I don't think that follows.  Nobody wants to form a sane third party, because parties that support arming every American with atomic weapons or the physical destruction of world Jewry can't win support to their lunatic ideas?

[merithyn]

Agreed, but no one is going to even try that so long as there is little to no support for even the fringe groups.

I don't think that follows.  Nobody wants to form a sane third party, because parties that support arming every American with atomic weapons or the physical destruction of world Jewry can't win support to their lunatic ideas?

You're going on the assumption that people actually know what the fringe parties support. No one does! Or at least, very few do. Most people know enough to go, "Well, I don't like either of the other parties, and this one wants smaller government and aren't already part of the big government. I think I'll vote for them." Or "This party is all about green energy, which I think is important to our future. I think I'll vote for them." But they don't know enough of the rest to make them hesitate.

My point is that so long as the mantra among the "rational" is that a third-party vote is a wasted vote, there will never be a strong third party option. If enough dis-enfranchised voters start tossing their votes to the "fringe parties", then maybe it will cease being considered a wasted vote.

[Grey Fox]

It'll really help the 3rd party cause forces the networks (or whatever) to have their candidate on a TV debate.

[Neil]

Agreed, but no one is going to even try that so long as there is little to no support for even the fringe groups.

I don't think that follows.  Nobody wants to form a sane third party, because parties that support arming every American with atomic weapons or the physical destruction of world Jewry can't win support to their lunatic ideas?

You're going on the assumption that people actually know what the fringe parties support. No one does! Or at least, very few do. Most people know enough to go, "Well, I don't like either of the other parties, and this one wants smaller government and aren't already part of the big government. I think I'll vote for them." Or "This party is all about green energy, which I think is important to our future. I think I'll vote for them." But they don't know enough of the rest to make them hesitate.

My point is that so long as the mantra among the "rational" is that a third-party vote is a wasted vote, there will never be a strong third party option. If enough dis-enfranchised voters start tossing their votes to the "fringe parties", then maybe it will cease being considered a wasted vote.

I think you're just trying to rationalize having voted for William Dudley Pelley.

[Sheilbh]

So midnight here, for first indications; worth staying up for and of course the banter here, just so long as it's in one thread rather than across 87 timmay spammed ones. 

Indeed.  In around 3 hours I will be drunk, bloated off snacks and twitter abusing Dick Morris

Or, I'll be drunk, bloated off snacks and shouting abuse at BBC coverage.

Who can say?

[Razgovory]

It'll really help the 3rd party cause forces the networks (or whatever) to have their candidate on a TV debate.

It might also help if they weren't all crazy people.

[Razgovory]

Agreed, but no one is going to even try that so long as there is little to no support for even the fringe groups.

I don't think that follows.  Nobody wants to form a sane third party, because parties that support arming every American with atomic weapons or the physical destruction of world Jewry can't win support to their lunatic ideas?

You're going on the assumption that people actually know what the fringe parties support. No one does! Or at least, very few do. Most people know enough to go, "Well, I don't like either of the other parties, and this one wants smaller government and aren't already part of the big government. I think I'll vote for them." Or "This party is all about green energy, which I think is important to our future. I think I'll vote for them." But they don't know enough of the rest to make them hesitate.

My point is that so long as the mantra among the "rational" is that a third-party vote is a wasted vote, there will never be a strong third party option. If enough dis-enfranchised voters start tossing their votes to the "fringe parties", then maybe it will cease being considered a wasted vote.

I think you're just trying to rationalize having voted for William Dudley Pelley.

Meri and Cal would have voted for George Wallace.

[Neil]

Meri and Cal would have voted for George Wallace.

Oh, did he hate Jews too?

[Caliga]

Meri and Cal would have voted for George Wallace.

You are but an insect to me.

[Barrister]

Agreed, but no one is going to even try that so long as there is little to no support for even the fringe groups.

I don't think that follows.  Nobody wants to form a sane third party, because parties that support arming every American with atomic weapons or the physical destruction of world Jewry can't win support to their lunatic ideas?

You're going on the assumption that people actually know what the fringe parties support. No one does! Or at least, very few do. Most people know enough to go, "Well, I don't like either of the other parties, and this one wants smaller government and aren't already part of the big government. I think I'll vote for them." Or "This party is all about green energy, which I think is important to our future. I think I'll vote for them." But they don't know enough of the rest to make them hesitate.

My point is that so long as the mantra among the "rational" is that a third-party vote is a wasted vote, there will never be a strong third party option. If enough dis-enfranchised voters start tossing their votes to the "fringe parties", then maybe it will cease being considered a wasted vote.

There's no strong third-party option because there are no strong third parties.  The third parties you point to have crazy and outlandish policy platforms that do appeal to a small function of die-hards, but not the general public.

That's not to say that there can never be a strong third party.  There have been hints of it.  Ross Perot and his Reform Party came closest - fighting on general main-stream issues that could appeal to mainstream voters.  Then of course Perot himself turned out to be a crackpot, and the Reform Party got hijacked by Pat Buchanan, but it showed the potential.

[Ed Anger]

Meri and Cal would have voted for George Wallace.

You are but an insect to me.

[Eddie Teach]

Meri and Cal would have voted for George Wallace.

You are but an insect to me.

Well, you did kinda segregate yourself by moving to rural Kentucky.

[OttoVonBismarck]

So in a moment of grave sadness my wife revealed to me she cast a vote for the Kenyan Interloper. Key takeaways:

1. She isn't a huge fan of Obamacare but thinks it is a move in the right direction. This is becoming common at her hospital as more of the doctors are crazily starting to support legislation that could undermine their high pay and country club lifestyles.

2. She says that Romney is far too elitist and doesn't have the interests of the middle class or lower class whatsoever.

I almost choked at hearing this. If America had landed nobility, my wife's family would be part of it, they're about as close to true aristocracy as you can get in this country. They literally trace back to the beginnings of Virginia and were wealthy plantation owners before guys like Washington or Jefferson were even born. On her maternal side, she has a great-grandfather that ran a large coal mining and later timber operation, uncles that have been bank Presidents. On her paternal side there's a long line of lawyers, several that have been honest-to-god judges (and not BS justices of the peace, but real jurists--and in Virginia our legislature appoints our judges so it tends to be even more of an insular and cliqueish group), and her own father was President of a pretty large newspaper before retirement. This is a woman who went to one of those ultra-expensive, small private Southern schools and whose brothers and father were majorly involved in polo while at UVA (note it's a self-funded sport there with the participants owning / maintaining their own horses and equipment.)

While I was tying a deer I'd just killed to the hood of my Trans-Am in High School and getting ready to pound a bottle of Evan Williams with my friends, she was going to white tie cotillions. If anyone in this family can speak to the middle class it'd be me.

[Ed Anger]

This is why I don't let my wife vote. Interferes with sandwich making.

[Razgovory]

Meri and Cal would have voted for George Wallace.

You are but an insect to me.

Gas station food must have done more to your waistline then I thought.