Breaking News - Major Terrorist Attack In Oslo, Norway

[Razgovory]

Marty, I hate to break it to you, but orcs and elves aren't real.

According to some there is no such thing as a "race" either, so racism must not exist either, right?

Because some people believe something doesn't exist, that actually make it cease to exist?  Evolution exists despite the fact that some people believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old.

[Martinus]

How about a position in between those two, such as a belief that a certain group has a higher proclivity for evil?  Racist or not racist?

Depends on what you mean by "a certain group."  "People with certain beliefs have a higher proclivity for seeking violent solutions to their problems" sounds better, and avoids that dreadful "evil" tag.

What about "People with certain skin color are more likely to commit a violent crime than people with another skin color"? Racist or not?

[dps]

How about a position in between those two, such as a belief that a certain group has a higher proclivity for evil?  Racist or not racist?

Depends on what you mean by "a certain group."  "People with certain beliefs have a higher proclivity for seeking violent solutions to their problems" sounds better, and avoids that dreadful "evil" tag.

What about "People with certain skin color are more likely to commit a violent crime than people with another skin color"? Racist or not?

I'd say that if the implication is that a person is more likely to commit a violent crime because of their skin color, it's racist.  If it's that a person of a certain skin color is more likely to commit a violent crime because a person of that color is more likely to be a member of a social group with more of a social/cultural afinity for violence, it's not.

[Slargos]

Jacob is attacking you because you made actual racist remarks.  Examples:

When you go on about "mud people", that would be racism.

When grallon goes on about how Muslims are vermin, that would be religious bigotry.

See the difference?

No, I really don't. It's six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Am I being racist if I call you a porch monkey?

Regardless, it's completely beside the point. Jacob insists that it's racism to villify a religion. [Or actually, he specified culture, so he sortof dodged it that way. But since no one was calling a culture evil, I guess his "argument" is a complete red herring. My bad.]

Perhaps the problem is you don't know what words mean in the English language.

No, I think the problem lies in the fact that you don't understand that Language is not permanent, and that the meaning of words can shift over time.

If you want to use the dictionary definition of racism, it's certainly not racism to call niggers "mud people".

[Slargos]

How about a position in between those two, such as a belief that a certain group has a higher proclivity for evil?  Racist or not racist?

Depends on what you mean by "a certain group."  "People with certain beliefs have a higher proclivity for seeking violent solutions to their problems" sounds better, and avoids that dreadful "evil" tag.

What about "People with certain skin color are more likely to commit a violent crime than people with another skin color"? Racist or not?

I'd say that if the implication is that a person is more likely to commit a violent crime because of their skin color, it's racist.  If it's that a person of a certain skin color is more likely to commit a violent crime because a person of that color is more likely to be a member of a social group with more of a social/cultural afinity for violence, it's not.

And yet, white collar immigrants in Sweden are more likely to commit crime than blue collar. Go figure.

[Slargos]

Marty, I hate to break it to you, but orcs and elves aren't real.

You beat me to the grumbler. 

[Slargos]

The idea here is to avoid a head on battle with a strong enemy, and instead
strike at his weakness elsewhere. The Prime Minister may have several armed body
guards. This however is not the case with regular ministers. As for static objectives, it
can be smarter to focus on less "armoured" targets. Instead of the Parliament building or
Royal Castle, other high value targets (with less security) should be targeted.
4. Make a sound in the east, then strike in the west
In any battle the element of surprise can provide an overwhelming advantage. Even when
face to face with an enemy, surprise can still be employed by attacking where he least
expects it. To do this you must create an expectation in the enemy's mind through the use
of a feint.

Say what you will about this guy, but he was certainly prepared.

He claims himself that he worked with this goal in mind for 9 years.

[Razgovory]

No, I think the problem lies in the fact that you don't understand that Language is not permanent, and that the meaning of words can shift over time.

If you want to use the dictionary definition of racism, it's certainly not racism to call niggers "mud people".

Using a racial slur isn't a racist statement?  I know of no dictionary where that is true.  Swedish education in the English language is not a good as we were led to believe.

[Slargos]

No, I think the problem lies in the fact that you don't understand that Language is not permanent, and that the meaning of words can shift over time.

If you want to use the dictionary definition of racism, it's certainly not racism to call niggers "mud people".

Using a racial slur isn't a racist statement?  I know of no dictionary where that is true.  Swedish education in the English language is not a good as we were led to believe.

More prejudice? Will the litany never cease?

[grumbler]

An ABC news report I saw said that the guy had a fully automatic weapon, which makes even a mass rush problematic.  600 people in one group, yeah, that's still a good option, but the 600 people in this instance were apparantly spread out in several groups.

The witneses appear to agree that he had an automatic weapon, so I think you are right.  Plus, people don't tend to think too clearly under gunfire, even when trained.  The Flight 96 people had a lot of time to consider their position, and didn't face gunfire, so their response probably has to be considered atypical.  Nobody rushed the Va Tech shooter, and even at Fort Hood, fully trained military people didn't rush Hassan until several minutes after he started shooting. 

[Grallon]

If I'd realized it was a contest, I would've started playing. 

Only in grumbler's mind.  For my part I haven't even stated my thoughts on this. 

-----

At first I thought it was Muslims because that's what they're often prone to do and we are collectively stupid enough to allow them within our borders in vast numbers.  Then it turned out it was a native with radical methods of enacting his beliefs/ideas.

If I really wanted to be callous I could say, from a purely detached intellectual standpoint, that one has to admire the determination and steadfastness of the man - to go through with this in a coldly methodical fashion - and then to allow himself to be captured.  This tells me that he intends to use the trial, and its sure to be massive media coverage, as a platform - or pulpit - from which to go on preaching his own ideas.

Everyone say this is a tragedy - I suppose it is - but is it more so than 80+ people killed in a plane crash?  Or the sinking of a ship?  Personally I regret the death of so many youths (especially the boys), but do I mourn?  Not really.  It would of course be different if this had happened here, on my own turn, with people who could have/might have been friends, family and such.  In other words, people I could have identified more... intimately with.  Naturally the predictable human reaction to such an event is to try and 'make sense' of it by attributing the clear-cut 'good' and 'evil' labels on every pieces of the puzzle.  However as most adults will know, life is gray, not black and white.

I imagine that many of those who died did so instantly, without foreknowledge, when the bullet hit them in the head or in the back.  There are worse ways to die.  Like being wounded and seeing the guy come up to you and knowing he will finish you off.  Or like those fleeing and drowning.  Or those in the blown up buildings being eviscerated...

I suppose that what I'm trying to say is that none of us value life in the same fashion or for the same reasons.  And that death will find us wherever and whenever it will.




G.

[Slargos]

I'm not going to throw stones.

I know I can come off as quite callous a lot of the time, but frankly I need it to stay alive. If I ever drop my guard I'm going to break into a million pieces.

[CountDeMoney]

At the risk of sounding a bit callous (and I am greatly moved by this tragedy), it places the guy ideologically exactly right in the center of the broadly understood populist right wing that's so popular in Europe (including, in Poland). Which hopefully will wreck huge political damage on them.

I don't think guys like him care.

[katmai]

I'm not going to throw stones.

I know I can come off as quite callous a lot of the time,

[merithyn]

I'm not going to throw stones.

I know I can come off as quite callous a lot of the time, but frankly I need it to stay alive. If I ever drop my guard I'm going to break into a million pieces.