Anti-Minaret Online Referendum

[Solmyr]

These are not recently arrived immigrants, these are people who've lived in the country for 20 years.

The Ingrians?  I thought they were more or less native to Finland.

The Ingrians were allowed to move to Finland from Russia in the last 20 years, since they are supposed to be "ethnic Finns".

[Admiral Yi]

Is their native language Ingrish?

HAHAHAHAHAHA

[Martinus]

Doesn't the law apply to everyone?  Christians or Jews can't build a minaret either as of now.

I bet they even have a law preventing everyone - including rich people - from sleeping under bridges too.

This is the line of reasoning used by bigots when they say that gays demand "special rights" to be able to marry people of the same sex.

[Mr.Penguin]

Is their native language Ingrish?

HAHAHAHAHAHA

[Syt]

Jon Stewart's take on the issue:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/257633/thu-december-3-2009-michael-specter

I like John Oliver's asking the Swiss UN ambassador about WW2 neutrality best.

[Winkelried]

Jon Stewart's take on the issue:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/257633/thu-december-3-2009-michael-specter

I like John Oliver's asking the Swiss UN ambassador about WW2 neutrality best.

Is this neutral anger or real anger?

[Queequeg]

These are not recently arrived immigrants, these are people who've lived in the country for 20 years.

The Ingrians?  I thought they were more or less native to Finland.

The Finno-Uralic Peoples are the "native" inhabitants of all the lands from NW Sweden to the Urals, as their name suggests.  A lot of Russian place and river names outside of the area near the Ukraine and Belarus are originally Finno-Uralic. 

Of course, native is relative.  The Indo-European pre-Urheimat (so a long, long, long, long time ago) was in that area, pretty far north too. 

[jimmy olsen]

Saw this, and the section I bolded caught my eye. Is that true?

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2009/12/iran-outrage-and-warnings-over-swiss-vote-banning-minarets.html

IRAN: Outrage, and a warning, over Swiss vote to ban minarets
December 5, 2009 |  1:07 pm

An East-West clash over a Swiss referendum last week banning the construction of mosque minarets heated up today as Iran's foreign minister warned of unspecified "consequences" if the ban were enforced.

Manouchehr Mottaki spoke on the phone with his Swiss counterpart Micheline Calmy-Rey. Switzerland and Iran generally have good relations. The Swiss serve as Washington's representative in the Iranian capital in the absence of formal relations between America and the Islamic Republic, giving them exalted status in Tehran's diplomatic circles.

But Mottaki had harsh words for Switzerland, saying enforcement of the ban on new minarets was "against the prestige of a country which claims to be an advocate of democracy and human rights" and would "damage Switzerland's image as a pioneer of respecting human rights among Muslims' public opinion," according to a report by the official Islamic Republic News Agency, or IRNA.

The Swiss ban on minarets, a feature of Islamic mosques, has roiled the Muslim world. The Swiss government has said it would abide by the vote even though the government and parliament had opposed the referendum.

Iran's population is 90% Shiite Muslim. But it permits construction of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, though some Sunni Muslims have complained they have a tough time building houses of worship in some parts of the country.

"Values such as tolerance, dialogue and respecting others' religions should never be put to referendum," Mottaki told his Swiss counterpart. He expressed hope that Bern would soon "take necessary steps and find a constitutional way to prevent imposition of the ban."

An Iranian cleric today also condemned the minaret ban. Ayatollah Hossein Nouri-Hamadani, said the move was "at odds with the protection of Muslim citizens' civil rights and will hurt the feelings of Muslims across the world," according to Iran's state television.

Calmy-Rey told Mottaki her government would "use all its means to support Muslims rights," according to IRNA.

-- Borzou Daragahi in New York

Photo: A minaret stands illuminated over the Khadija mosque in Berlin. Credit: Andreas Rentz/Getty Images

[Tamas]

Well Tim with the revolutionary guard and other assholes around, I am pretty sure that you are permitted to build churches, you would be just an idiot to do so.

Much like the way we had parlaimentary elections between the world wars: sure, you could had voted socialist, nobody stopped you from doing so, it's only that the vote was not secret, you told the offical who you are voting on, and the local police officer was behind him, listening.

[Syt]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christians_in_Iran#Current_situation
Nothing about churches, but it doesn't seem very tolerant.

[syk]

I wonder who would care what would be allowed in Iran or what Ahmadinejad has to say on the matter. A basic level of tolerance could be expected from a European nation. My expectations regarding Iran are justone step above North Korea.

[Jaron]

If they didnt let people build churches and synagogues, wouldnt they eventually run out of such buildings to burn down?

[Neil]

I wonder who would care what would be allowed in Iran or what Ahmadinejad has to say on the matter. A basic level of tolerance could be expected from a European nation. My expectations regarding Iran are justone step above North Korea.

And clearly European nations are wrong to be so tolerant.

[Sheilbh]

Saw this, and the section I bolded caught my eye. Is that true?

Yes.  Iran's got the largest regional population of Jews outside of Israel (I believe around 30 000) and I think there's a few tens of thousands of Oriental Christians too.  It's not terribly repressive of Jews and Christians - it's the Bahai and Zoroastrians who draw most of their ire in terms of religious oppression.  But Iran is better than, say, Saudi or most of the Gulf for monotheistic religious minorities.

[Martinus]

Anyway, there are talks of the referendum results being invalidated by either the Swiss supreme court or the European Court of Human Rights.