Anti-Minaret Online Referendum

[Solmyr]

That doesn't explain why she should be first introduced or understood as a Muslim and a moderate one at that.

Surely if the goal is integration into British society there has to be a point where someone isn't a 'moderate Muslim' or 'black' or 'gay' but that they're British.

And if they themselves identify as primarily Muslim? At least here in Finland the immigrant Somali community identify themselves as Muslims, not Finnish (or even Somali). What should our reaction to this be?
Or to take a non-Muslim example, the immigrant "ethnic Finnish" Ingrian community (who are really Russians) don't identify themselves as Finnish at all, to the point of refusing to learn the language and demanding that government services are provided in Russian.

[dps]

That doesn't explain why she should be first introduced or understood as a Muslim and a moderate one at that.

Surely if the goal is integration into British society there has to be a point where someone isn't a 'moderate Muslim' or 'black' or 'gay' but that they're British.

And if they themselves identify as primarily Muslim? At least here in Finland the immigrant Somali community identify themselves as Muslims, not Finnish (or even Somali). What should our reaction to this be?

I fail to see why there is any need for any reaction at all.

[Eddie Teach]

What should our reaction to this be?

Unadulterated rage.

[Barrister]

What should our reaction to this be?

Unadulterated rage.

I prefer a little adultery with my rage.

[dps]

What should our reaction to this be?

Unadulterated rage.

I prefer a little adultery with my rage.

So guys, should we tell his wife?   

[DGuller]

It is not a solution though, it is a nasty petty-minded move that can only be counter-productive.

Far better for Swiss citizens to press for their laws to be applied equally and fairly to all.

Doesn't the law apply to everyone?  Christians or Jews can't build a minaret either as of now.

[Capetan Mihali]

It is not a solution though, it is a nasty petty-minded move that can only be counter-productive.

Far better for Swiss citizens to press for their laws to be applied equally and fairly to all.

Doesn't the law apply to everyone?  Christians or Jews can't build a minaret either as of now.

Truly equal protection under the law.   

[crazy canuck]

Or to take a non-Muslim example, the immigrant "ethnic Finnish" Ingrian community (who are really Russians) don't identify themselves as Finnish at all, to the point of refusing to learn the language and demanding that government services are provided in Russian.

Nobody in their right mind would voluntarily learn Finnish.

[crazy canuck]

It is not a solution though, it is a nasty petty-minded move that can only be counter-productive.

Far better for Swiss citizens to press for their laws to be applied equally and fairly to all.

Doesn't the law apply to everyone?  Christians or Jews can't build a minaret either as of now.

I bet they even have a law preventing everyone - including rich people - from sleeping under bridges too.

[Alatriste]

It is not a solution though, it is a nasty petty-minded move that can only be counter-productive.

Far better for Swiss citizens to press for their laws to be applied equally and fairly to all.

Doesn't the law apply to everyone?  Christians or Jews can't build a minaret either as of now.

Actually I was wondering how did they define 'minaret'... if they have outlawed tall structures in religious buildings, bell towers are included. If they have been more specific and defined them as tall structures used to call the congregation then there are none in Switzerland and very probably none in Europe, they aren't used for that if only because anti-noise regulations (many bell towers aren't used anymore for the same reason).

[Sheilbh]

And if they themselves identify as primarily Muslim? At least here in Finland the immigrant Somali community identify themselves as Muslims, not Finnish (or even Somali). What should our reaction to this be?

I don't think there should be a reaction and everyone should be treated individually.  Again this is something that I'm personally rather laissez-faire on.  I think it comes with time.  Identity is something that you don't just switch.  My parents have lived in this country for 50 years and would still consider themselves Irish and would be surprised that I view myself as British.

Or to take a non-Muslim example, the immigrant "ethnic Finnish" Ingrian community (who are really Russians) don't identify themselves as Finnish at all, to the point of refusing to learn the language and demanding that government services are provided in Russian.

In that case I don't know the status of Russian in Finland, but my view for immigrants is that we have to support their languages within a process of learning ours.  The truth is that recently arrived immigrants aren't necessarily going to be confident or competent - so I think hospitals in areas with, say, a high Arab population would benefit from having some translators, especially women.  I think in schools you should provide support for kids in their mother tongue to help them learn Finnish or English because if they don't speak it at home then they're going to need extra help to really get the most out of their education and more successfully integrate into Finnish society.

[grumbler]

I prefer a little adultery with my rage.

So guys, should we tell his wife?   

His wife is the one who is pissed off.

[Eddie Teach]

Doesn't the law apply to everyone?  Christians or Jews can't build a minaret either as of now.

I bet they even have a law preventing everyone - including rich people - from sleeping under bridges too.

[Solmyr]

In that case I don't know the status of Russian in Finland, but my view for immigrants is that we have to support their languages within a process of learning ours.  The truth is that recently arrived immigrants aren't necessarily going to be confident or competent - so I think hospitals in areas with, say, a high Arab population would benefit from having some translators, especially women.  I think in schools you should provide support for kids in their mother tongue to help them learn Finnish or English because if they don't speak it at home then they're going to need extra help to really get the most out of their education and more successfully integrate into Finnish society.

These are not recently arrived immigrants, these are people who've lived in the country for 20 years.

[Sheilbh]

These are not recently arrived immigrants, these are people who've lived in the country for 20 years.

The Ingrians?  I thought they were more or less native to Finland.