Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Sheilbh]

Needs to be more decisive - but I think there could be capacity issues. Could probably do with an evening of rain. I think we're up to dozens of police hospitalised now.

There's been a lot of "rallies" and counter-protests (normally far more people) which have been kept apart by the police. But after a while the far-right "protesters" are just moving into rioters.

Although as I say here there is a lot of overlap between these far-right rioters and football hooligans, who like nothing more than getting coked up, pissed and having a fight with the police. So I suspect the shift from "rally" to riot is basically once they've drunk enough to start fights.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Australia is no longer axailable, but I wonder if it is possible to transport these people to Rwanda? I'm assured it is a safe country and it costs a lot to incarcerate people in the UK.

[Sheilbh]

I was thinking that the government closed the Bibby Stockholm - but if we still have it we could probably do with a hulk at this point.

[Josquius]

Australia is no longer axailable, but I wonder if it is possible to transport these people to Rwanda? I'm assured it is a safe country and it costs a lot to incarcerate people in the UK.

We paid them to accept a certain number of people.
They give us a refund or these are who they're getting.

[Tamas]

I was looking at my local news. 3 recently rejected building permissions (to be fair I have no idea how many, if any, has been accepted in the same timeframe):

1 was to build a house on at a farm: "refused by the council. It ruled that it was not acceptable as it would be a 'visually prominent and urbanising form of development' which would be 'to the detriment of the character and amenities of the area'."

Nine house to be built on the land of two demolished ones, third plan in a row rejected. " Town Council had recommended refusal for the proposal, saying that it was a 'cramped development'.

Three previous applications for building on the land had been refused by the council. The new application had amended the layout."

Also the construction of a four-bedroom detached cottage has been refused near the edge of town near another one. "In the decision notice, the council said that there were issues with flooding and the impact it would have on trees. It further ruled that the proposal would not 'relate positively to the character and beauty of the countryside'"

I would be absolutely furious if I wanted to build something on my land, and had to put up with all this.

[HVC]

Wonder if doing like a council swap would help. You don't have control of you're towns buildings, but another town. Less nimbyism if it's not your view you're messing with.

[Syt]

Ah, the 1970s, when the political fringe had ludicrous demands that would never make it into the mainstream!

[Tonitrus]

At least they got a couple left-wing points in there (raising pensions and those damned property-speculating rentiers).

[Josquius]

Ban the IRA

[crazy canuck]

Crack down "hard" on disruptors.

I assume that meant union busting?

[Tamas]

Ah the gone-by talking points of 50 years ago.

[Sheilbh]

Ah the gone-by talking points of 50 years ago.

Boil that stuff down: trade, immigration/race, labour v capital, law and order, inflation. Those would be the same issues 100 years ago in the 20s. It might be different if you go back to the 1870s - but that's probably because you have a profoundly more limited franchise.

There is never going to be an answer to politics - it'll always be contested. It won't end. And extreme forces are opportunistic - they feed on and take advantage of what is contested at the moment. I'd expect that those same issues will be the focus of politics in 50 years time and the far-right will still be there too. And the fight against them never ends either.

At least they got a couple left-wing points in there (raising pensions and those damned property-speculating rentiers).

In the context of the late 70s I think leaving the Common Market would also be read as left-wing.

Crack down "hard" on disruptors.

I assume that meant union busting?

That'd be my guess.

And not exactly a surprise - round the corner from where I live is where the battle of Lewisham was in the late 70s when unions and other left wing groups blocked the NF from marching through the area, which they were doing as a show of strength after doing very, very well in a local council by-election. Go back to the 30s and the battle of Cable Street had a very strong union presence. Look at the last few days and all the counter-demonstrations have very strong union presences - including union leaders addressing the anti-fascists.

[Sheilbh]

By the by, mentioned it before but I think the rioters are in for a shock.

Starmer was chief prosecutor during the 2011 riots - had the courts on a 24 hour schedule, going for maximum sentences and over 3,000 prosecutions in a space of months. He is now PM with the full infrastructure of the state and security services. I think they will go very hard (and with very broad support - people hate disorder). Obviously there is a crisis in the prisons but the government have already said there's capacity and they will create more capacity to jail rioters.

Also I wouldn't be surprised to see very fulsome use of joint enterprise.

I think for the far-right groups they're coming for a shock - but also the more opportunistic/just like smashing shit up/looting people (saw a photo of a guy running out of Greggs with a massive tray of baked goods for example). In terms of rolling them up, I think it's quite striking that the first thing Starmer mentioned was using facial recognition technology and having some sort of clearing house/sharing between police forces.

We've seen the first prosecutions start today in Liverpool (largely remanded in custody until sentencing at the end of the month).

[Josquius]

I hope you're right.

Two poster rioters from Sunderland.

One. An  gent who came up from stoke. He literally has swatzika tattoo.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sunderland-riot-swastika-tattoo-video-b2590587.html

Like. What the hell. How does that even work in the modern far right. They're always banging on about the war and how we won, Germany lost, nerr nerr.


Another... A woman apparently pretty well known in Sunderland, by the name of leannes. Runs a removal company named leanne's removals which is having a fun time on social media...oh and she's doing this Whilst claiming universal credit.
Oh. And she's on remand already for something else.
She went openly rioting with no attempt to mask up and seems to have just utterly destroyed her life.

[Gups]

In the context of the late 70s I think leaving the Common Market would also be read as left-wing.

Left wing and hard right wing. In the 1975 referendum the no campaign included Enoch Powell, Tony Benn, Michael Foot and Barbera Castle but also Plaid, the SNP, the NF, the Usleter unionists, Sinn Fein and the Communist Party.

BUt certainly, Labour was much more split than the Tories on the subject.