Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Sheilbh]

It does look like the main story this evening is thousands of anti-fascist counter-demonstrators all over the country. The only far-right "success" I've seen was in Blackpool where a group of 10 or so managed to stand on a roundabout. One reporter heard a woman walking by say "for fuck's sake we won't be able to get anything to eat here now because of these knobheads."

While the Mail and Express have been pretty furious about the riots (I think reflecting their broadly elderly readership who absolutely hate public disorder of any time), it's still unusual to see the Mail, Express, Times and Guardian all lead with the same image and basically the same tone. Mail below - fairly mad for them to have protesters holding "Refugees Welcome" signs on the front page as the good guys But I think that's because those counter-protests changed the facts on the ground significantly:

[Jacob]

Yeah that's not a headline I'd expect from the Mail. The front page even calls them "anti-fascist marchers".

[Tamas]

Apparently the rumour of a set list of far right riots for tonight was started by a single Liverpoolian individual posting it, based on a Google search of where immigration offices are.

[Josquius]

They're cowards. Par the course for their type.
I expect some squirming reasoning about it that antifa is some totally different and super evil far left group that are just as bad and more of a threat than the recent rioters. Totally different to the proud British citizens who pulled together in an anti hate march!
We are against left hate just as much as right hate! Did we mention the rioters were very left wing?

[Sheilbh]

Yeah. On a very niche note it is also striking that most of those placards are from "unite against fascism" and "stand up to racism" who are both front organisations of a very far left organisation - the other main placard is from the Revolutionary Communist Party. Again not groups typically endorsed by the right wing press.

Also some union flags (and from what I saw in most of the protests there was a strong union presence). The unions have definitely mobilised in the last few days - I think a couple of days ago a number of general secretaries wrote to all their branches calling for them to contact local mosques etc on how to support them but also for "movement-wide" response. As ever (which I'm susceptible too) lots of references to trade union history of mobilising against fascism and that they would do so again. That was the lead story in the Communist paper, the Morning Star - again unusual for them to be having the same angle on a story as the Express and Mail (though their image was from Nottingham)

In part I think it is the inevitable story tonight - plus the Mail and Express have been hostile to the riots because they hate protesters, far less rioters regardless of their cause. But I think there is also a bit of firewall and myth building. Basically they're the far-right thugs and fascists everyone to the left (including the Mail and Express) are part of the acceptable mainstream - even if they're very much part of the ideological compost of the riots. On the other hand I suppose I've moaned about firewalls collapsing everywhere and the need for movements to keep some hygiene on their extremes - so I probably shouldn't complain too much

I think the Express' headline really gets that and takes it further "United Britain Stands Firm Against Thugs" (same image). Again the message there is that tonight is Britain, the last week has been "not Britain" which is a lie. Both are part of Britain right now and a reflection of the country - though I think tonight does show, as some of the counter-protesters were chanting, "there are many many more of us than you".

[Richard Hakluyt]

There was some property damage after all. As the DM would say, won't someone think of the house prices?

[Sheilbh]

Apparently the rumour of a set list of far right riots for tonight was started by a single Liverpoolian individual posting it, based on a Google search of where immigration offices are.

Maybe. I'd want to see a bit more on that. The line from the far-right tonight seems to be that they weren't actually planning on anything tonight anyway. I don't think they were planning to take a night off or would have had it not been for the large anti-fascist presence on the streets (I also think that possibly the very strong language from the police today with a large police presence, the start of sentencing plus a general loss of momentum from the weekend contributed).

Don't know about the specific list and it'd be interesting to see. But there were a lot of police orders put in for places on that list which gave the police enhanced powers in the areas identified for things like dispersing crowds, stop and search and requiring people to remove masks. I suspect that indicates that at the very least they took the risk seriously.

[Sheilbh]

There was some property damage after all. As the DM would say, won't someone think of the house prices?

Well exactly Always think about that Marx line, "thus the Tories in England long imagined that they were enthusiastic about monarchy, the church, and the beauties of the old English Constitution, until the day of danger wrung from them the confession that they are enthusiastic only about ground rent."

[Tamas]

There was some property damage after all. As the DM would say, won't someone think of the house prices?

Well exactly Always think about that Marx line, "thus the Tories in England long imagined that they were enthusiastic about monarchy, the church, and the beauties of the old English Constitution, until the day of danger wrung from them the confession that they are enthusiastic only about ground rent."

Oh snap 

[Tamas]

I think I have been getting a taste of how the US far-right has this picture of the UK descending into Islamist chaos.

This Hungarian forum-like thing I frequent where people can open Disqus threads for online articles... There are people there reacting to British news by showing the "truth" via various highly suspicious Youtube videos, to put it mildly.

For example, some guy believes there was a big England-flagged "patriotic" march in London yesterday because there's a Youtube clip about one showing an England-flagged march somewhere at some time. Ergo, the mainstream media is lying that there wasn't any major far-right demo yesterday, proving that the true patriots suffer under the yoke of Woke oppression and Islamist terror.

It's kind of fascinating, it is a parallel universe almost completely detached from actual reality.

[Josquius]

Yep. Though worryingly it's a semi self aware one where you try and raise this sort of thing with them they've an easy come back that no, you're the one in the parallel universe - there being a half truth that the left no doubt has its biases too, but on nowhere near the scale of these space cadets.

[Sheilbh]

I'd add to that that it is particularly strong on the American far-right, but goes beyond there. So the Deputy Mayor of Jerusalem sharing a nonsense and Islamophobic meme about the UK.

I don't know why it's the UK in particular that seems to attract this. I feel like it used to be Sweden?

Separately, the woman who first shared the lie about Southport attackers has been arrested:

Woman who first shared fake Southport suspect rumour that sparked riots arrested
Danny RiggPublished Aug 8, 2024, 6:04pm|Updated Aug 8, 2024, 9:48pm

The woman accused of being first to spread the fake rumours about the Southport killer which sparked nationwide riots has been arrested.

Racist riots spread across the country after misinformation spread on social media claiming the fatal stabbing was carried out by Ali Al-Shakati, believed to be a fictitious name, a Muslim aslyum seeker who was on an MI6 watchlist.

A 55-year-old woman from Chester has now been arrested on suspicion of publishing written material to stir up racial hatred, and false communication. She remains in police custody.

Chief Superintendent Alison Ross said: 'We have all seen the violent disorder that has taken place across the UK over the past week, much of which has been fuelled by malicious and inaccurate communications online.

'It's a stark reminder of the dangers of posting information on social media platforms without checking the accuracy.

'It also acts as a warning that we are all accountable for our actions, whether that be online or in person.'

While she has not been named in the police statement about the arrest, it is believed to be Bonnie Spofforth, a mother-of-three and the managing director of a clothing company.

Spofforth, 55, posted the false claim at 4.49pm on Monday, July 29, the day of the attack, saying: 'Ali Al-Shakati was the suspect, he was an asylum seeker who came to the UK by boat last year and was on an MI6 watch list. If this is true, then all hell is about to break loose.'

The businesswoman, who lives in a £1.5million farmhouse in Cheshire, told MailOnline she 'first received this information from somebody in Southport'.

'I'm mortified that I'm being accused of this. I did not make it up', she said.

'My post had nothing to do with the violence we've seen across the country.

'But I acknowledge that it may have been the source for the information used by a Russian news website.'

Spofforth posted the claim on social media just hours after Bebe King, six, Alice Dasilva Aguiar, nine, and Elsie Dot Stancombe, seven, were stabbed to death at a Taylor Swift-themed dance class.

Axel Rudakubana, a 17-year-old born in Cardiff, has been charged with their murder, along with 10 counts of attempted murder and possession of a bladed article in a public place.

But Spofforth's false claim rapidly spread on social media after being shared by Russian outlet RT and Andrew Tate.

It gained an estimated 27million impressions in a single day, according to disinformation researcher Marc Owen Jones, an associate professor at Doha's Hamid bin Khalifa University.

A riot broke out after a vigil in Southport the following day, with a mosque being a primary target of the violence.

Also I find myself having zero sympathy here:


On that Daily Mail front page also saw the polling that splitting the votes by party shows that Reform voters are both most likely to sympathise with the rioters, and support arming the police with live ammunition to shoot them Truly the "inside you are two wolves" of the British right: sympathise with racists but really, really hate any form of disorder.

(This slightly reminds me of polling during BLM that showed a majority of the British public both supported BLM protests and wanted the police to shut them down. It's a very perverse flipping of that Voltaire line "I may agree with you, but I will want you to be charged down by mounted police if you cause me the slightest inconvenience")

Edit: Also sentencing continues three more today for offences committed last Tuesday - and the judge's sentencing remarks were broadcast. Suspect there'll be a steady stream now.

[Josquius]

Not the demographic you expect at all of a social media warrior sort.
Hope she gets shot out of a cannon.

Incidentally asylum seeker on an MI6 watch list - is this even possible? I know different parts of the government don't communicate but that seems a step too far.

[Sheilbh]

Not the demographic you expect at all of a social media warrior sort.

I don't know. Seems pretty squarely what you'd expect to me.

First sentencing for someone for incitement on social media when they were directing people to attack the hotel with asylum seekers in Rotherham. I think he was in Leeds the whole time so no contact/involvement offline.

Incidentally asylum seeker on an MI6 watch list - is this even possible? I know different parts of the government don't communicate but that seems a step too far.

I mean it took 20 years to deport Abu Qutada out of the country despite him being wanted in multiple countries for his links to al-Qaeda and general role as a radical preacher in jihadist circles.

I think some of the London Bridge attackers were failed asylum seekers (although I think there known to the police/MI5 for behaviour here not overseas). There was a stabbing attack a while ago by a failed asylum seeker who had been known to the security services - ultimately it ended up being treated under the Mental Health Act - but he was stabbing people on the streets shouting Islamist slogans.

Obviously "known to the security services" does a lot of lifting in all of this. Because their job is in part to gather intelligence on radical circles - it doesn't mean they'll always be able to predict which ones actually go on to do an attack.

[Josquius]

Wealthy middle class woman with an apparently successful business and no political attachments?
I can't see where you say expected.

Fair on known to security services meaning little. Active asylum seeker but on a MI6 active alarm list is what I read.