Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Josquius]

The very real concern I have on that is that the tories are not dumb. The connection between poverty, low education levels, and far right beliefs must not be lost on them.
It is actively in their best interests to make traditional labour areas as poor as possible.
And we all know "do the right thing" is an alien concept for Johnson and Co....

[Tamas]

I have no doubt that refusing to align with EU will be used to quietly dismantle a lot of worker and customer rights and protections.

As Sheilbh says WILL OF THE PEOPLE and BREXIT IS BEING DONE presents a once-in-a-generation opportunity for this.

With a major crook at the helm, they may very well be going for this.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

The very real concern I have on that is that the tories are not dumb. The connection between poverty, low education levels, and far right beliefs must not be lost on them.
It is actively in their best interests to make traditional labour areas as poor as possible.

ever thought that these people -when they still voted left- might have held the same opinions as they do now? And that -as such- it's not the voters that have left the left, but the left that has left the voters?

[Admiral Yi]

I have no doubt that refusing to align with EU will be used to quietly dismantle a lot of worker and customer rights and protections.

What kinds of protections do you have in mind?  I'm only familiar with the famous banana curve decree.

[Tamas]

I have no doubt that refusing to align with EU will be used to quietly dismantle a lot of worker and customer rights and protections.

What kinds of protections do you have in mind?  I'm only familiar with the famous banana curve decree.

Food safety regulations for example ( As an American I know you are unfamiliar with such things ). But already Britain is pretty lackluster when it comes to law-enforced employee perks, especially things like annual leave or public holidays. Who knows what else we take for granted is enforced by EU rules.

[Grey Fox]

The FDA is very strict. You know about Kinder Surprises, right?

[Admiral Yi]

Food safety regulations for example ( As an American I know you are unfamiliar with such things ).

So stuff like GMO?

[Tamas]

Food safety regulations for example ( As an American I know you are unfamiliar with such things ).

So stuff like GMO?

And chlorinated chicken.

[garbon]

Food safety regulations for example ( As an American I know you are unfamiliar with such things ).

So stuff like GMO?

And chlorinated chicken.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47440562

So seems mixed but I can understand why it seems distasteful.

[Josquius]

The very real concern I have on that is that the tories are not dumb. The connection between poverty, low education levels, and far right beliefs must not be lost on them.
It is actively in their best interests to make traditional labour areas as poor as possible.

ever thought that these people -when they still voted left- might have held the same opinions as they do now? And that -as such- it's not the voters that have left the left, but the left that has left the voters?

The far right like to claim this a lot.
It doesn't hold up.
Solidarity and minority rights have always been left wing beliefs.
The areas in question have changed massively with the collapse in industry, rise in unemployment, etc...
Nonetheless it makes a great soundbite. Helps to excuse people for spitting on their grandfather's grave if you can convince them it's the left that changed, not them

What kinds of protections do you have in mind?  I'm only familiar with the famous banana curve decree.

The banana curve thing is massively misreported and overblown. It is a very small bit of silliness within some very logical and necessary legislation on minimum standard for classes of produce.
I think it was Tamas had a story on EU membership leading to Hungarian milk needing to be relabelled milk-water?

[Tamas]

The very real concern I have on that is that the tories are not dumb. The connection between poverty, low education levels, and far right beliefs must not be lost on them.
It is actively in their best interests to make traditional labour areas as poor as possible.

ever thought that these people -when they still voted left- might have held the same opinions as they do now? And that -as such- it's not the voters that have left the left, but the left that has left the voters?

The far right claim this a lot.
It doesn't hold up.
Solidarity and minority rights have always been left wing beliefs.
The areas in question have changed massively with the collapse in industry, rise in unemployment, etc...

I've been saying this for a while now, and events seem to reinforce it: the "proletariat" has never, ever cared a single bit about solidarity and minority rights. Not one bit. They cared about improving their own economic lot (rightly so of course, especially in earlier decades), and they PUT UP with the equality talk of the Left because the Left was the only side offering them an economic perspective.

If you look at it, as soon as that economic perspective has either disappeared or moved to the Right (MAGA and taking back control and all that), the votes moved with it.

[Josquius]

Am I correct in reading between the lines here that you are seeing solidarity as meaning sacrificing their own situation for the sake of others?
What it actually means is mutual support. Recognising that throwing others under the bus for your own short term gain will screw you both over in the end.
There's no judgement on the working class of the past being more selfless and moral. Just a lot better informed about their place in the world and the way to improve this not being by trampling others to the ground.

[Admiral Yi]

Am I correct in reading between the lines here that you are seeing solidarity as meaning sacrificing their own situation for the sake of others?
What it actually means is mutual support. Recognising that throwing others under the bus for your own short term gain will screw you both over in the end.
There's no judgement on the working class of the past being more selfless and moral. Just a lot better informed about their place in the world and the way to improve this not being by trampling others to the ground.

A union strikes a work place to get higher wages.  The company wants to hire replacement workers, or scabs as some like to call them.  It's easy to see what mutual support the replacements are being asked to provide (i.e. not crossing the picket line); what mutual support are the union members extending to the replacements?

[Tamas]

what mutual support are the union members extending to the replacements?

They won't beat them up :p

[Tamas]

Am I correct in reading between the lines here that you are seeing solidarity as meaning sacrificing their own situation for the sake of others?
What it actually means is mutual support. Recognising that throwing others under the bus for your own short term gain will screw you both over in the end.
There's no judgement on the working class of the past being more selfless and moral. Just a lot better informed about their place in the world and the way to improve this not being by trampling others to the ground.

No by solidarity I meant equal political rights and lack of ethnic/sexual/cultural/etc discrimination.