Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Sheilbh]

Yeah and possibly also a London v rest of Britain thing. Just lots of gay men around the Tories in Westminster - and so, I think, in London generally. Plus of those young, centre-right Tories online and in think tanks delighted with Poilievre's stance on housing - I'd guess 90% of them are gay I have some friends who are journalists in Westminster and so I've met some think tank and special advisor types - I do not think I've met a straight Tory man ever. I am sure they exist but I've not met them. Labour types were more laddish - lots of five a side and pints.

I think in the provinces local Tory parties are still twin set and pearls, Rotary Club types - but I've no idea.

I agree in general on the 95/5% breakdown. But I'd say that I was a little involved in local Labour during the Corbyn wars and before. There was an influx in 2015 and 2016 of many really convinced and lovely people, but also a lot of really quite nasty cranks which skewed the balance. Some were just the old hard left who'd been in these fights for 40 years ago - and I genuinely think part of their strategy was to make it unpleasant for anyone not on their side to be there. That way they could take over meetings, then they could take over resolutions and committees etc.

There was also a really unpleasant laddish element to it - I remember the "salt the slugs" stuff. I know from speaking to other people on the left that I wasn't the only gay man or woman who felt quite uncomfortable in some of the very pro-Corbyn spaces - obviously there were lovely people but there was also a very laddish group that came with that (I think maybe the UK version of the "dirtbag left"?).

[HVC]

Albertan Conservatives weren't molded by the UK Public Schools (by which I mean exclusive Private Schools) along with Oxbridge.

At least British sailors got some rum.

[crazy canuck]

The left also enjoys uncovering and denouncing those who are insufficiently pure. Which can get a bit tedious.

It is weird such an annoying quality of protestant Christianity got passed on to the godless leftists. If you stand for the people, maybe be a bit tolerant of foibles of humanity?

Granted this general quality might be one of those things that is more prominent online than IRL, though the joke about the Judean People's Front vs the People's Front of Judea vs The Judean Popular Front vs the League for a Free Galilea certainly came from someplace.

My favourite prof said the left are like Protestants, when they have a disagreement they go off and start a new political organization.

[Sheilbh]

My favourite prof said the left are like Protestants, when they have a disagreement they go off and start a new political organization.

Maybe that's what they really mean when they say the Labour Party owes more to Methodism than Marxism

[Sheilbh]

Not sure leaving D-Day for this interview was a wise idea. On the one hand this is nothing, on the other when you're the richest PM in British history and one of the main things people complain about is that you're out of touch/don't understand people like them, this is not great:

"My family emigrated here with very little. I was raised with the values of hard work" he said.

"I went without lots of things because my parents wanted to put everything into our education" he added.

When pressed for an example of something he had gone without, he said, "There are all sorts of things that I wanted as a kid that I couldn't have, famously Sky TV! That was something that we never had growing up."

Also starts it saying the D-Day ceremonies overran so he's late

[Richard Hakluyt]

Four Yorkshiremen incoming 

Central heating was installed in most British homes in the 70s and 80s. For people of my generation our bedrooms were unheated, you had to freeze or stay in the sitting room with parents and siblings.

Not having sky will not wash with the grumpy over 60s 

[Josquius]

Being a bit closer in age to him honestly I can relate to Sunak a little bit there on the Sky TV point. For much of my childhood I really wanted it and was jealous of those who had it.
In those days of 4 channels anything extra was a revelation.
Though I suspect with him it was more his parents saying TV is rubbish than the cost.  Not an example I'd use to talk of how rough my childhood was.

[Sheilbh]

I am quite enjoying all the people online (who clearly had Sky as a kid) saying "ackshally having Sky was a working class signifier because posh people were snobbish about it"

But yeah I also recognise it. Also closer in age and I was very frustrated that my mum and dad wouldn't get Sky and very jealous of friends who had it. I remember having to go to friend's houses to watch big things that were on Sky. Basically this:

Joe Barton
@JoeBarton_
The face of a man who had to wait for new episodes of The Simpsons to drop on BBC2

And we don't know about his parents saying TV is rubbish. I imagine given his family memory of that that it was more "it's a waste of money" (also my parents argument ).

[Richard Hakluyt]

In my milieu people didn't have Sky because it was seen as supporting Murdoch. It was a major sacrifice for people who liked football iirc.

[Josquius]

These days it's different with them having basically every game available with red button et al but traditionally sky has always been very overrated for football unless you follow the top teams or are really into watching random games.

I am quite enjoying all the people online (who clearly had Sky as a kid) saying "ackshally having Sky was a working class signifier because posh people were snobbish about it"

But yeah I also recognise it. Also closer in age and I was very frustrated that my mum and dad wouldn't get Sky and very jealous of friends who had it. I remember having to go to friend's houses to watch big things that were on Sky. Basically this:

Joe Barton
@JoeBarton_
The face of a man who had to wait for new episodes of The Simpsons to drop on BBC2

And we don't know about his parents saying TV is rubbish. I imagine given his family memory of that that it was more "it's a waste of money" (also my parents argument ).

Funny image.

Though these twitter comments you mention...
They smell awfully gen z to me.

My family eventually did get sky in the late 90s by the point it was becoming this working class norm.

Though sunak would be speaking more of the early 90s, when it was more of an exciting niche product for people with a bit of money.

[Sheilbh]

Though these twitter comments you mention...
They smell awfully gen z to me.

No I think it's our generation explaining that just because they had Sky doesn't mean they're middle class

Though sunak would be speaking more of the early 90s, when it was more of an exciting niche product for people with a bit of money.

Yes. I do find it a bit distressing that I'm basically the same generation as the Prime Minister. We would have been at school at the same time, at other ends - him about to leave and me just starting - but still...

Separately but relevant to conversations we have on NHS and national scandals. I've seen a journalist post a job ad for a obgyn consultant in Hampshire NHS Trust - including the "desire to support and promote active and normal birth". This is the same trust that fired a whistleblowing consultant for raising concerns about their services and that the focus on "natural births" was significantly raising the risk for mothers and children. There have been three government commissioned reviews into maternity care at NHS trusts which have identified a "normal"/"natural" birth sort of ideology/culture as a contributing factor in failing services.

I think the UK has a higher rate of maternity deaths than many countries (with significant race inequalities too). In those reviews into this the "normal birth" focus has been identified as a material factor (I know some women who've had horrendous experiences because of this).

And yet it's still being advertising for senior posts that you'll promote it. Apparently elsewhere the NHS is still talking about midwives as "guardians of normal birth". I suspect this is going to be another of those issues that ends up as a national scandal, many bereaved or permanently damaged, huge compensation bill - and everyone was responsible so no-one's responsible.

Edit: And I think this does play into that "doctor knows best" culture of deference we have. I think it was Lady Hale in a court case out of this who said that some obstetricians and midwives seemed to basically feel that "a vaginal delivery is in some way morally preferable to a caeserean section: so much so that it justifies depriving the pregnant woman of the information needed for her to make a free choice."

[Tamas]

To me Sky with a worthwhile package still feels quite the luxury. Last time I checked it was well over 70 pounds a month to get basic stuff plus sports which seems mental.

[Sheilbh]

I know, I know - it's the Sun (although I find it interesting that them and the Mail are moving in a more YIMBY direction)....And he'll probably (hopefully) lose. But still striking to see someone evolve into a Tory MP - especially from working in Lord Mandelson's lobbyist firm where he was, no doubt, a Poilievre-curious YIMBY

A TORY rising star candidate has sparked fury over his transformation from new-build backer to "NIMBY" - in time for the election.
In a 2022 paper, wannabe MP Johnny Luk slammed Conservative councils for contributing to the housing crisis and demanded urgent action to build new homes.

In a now deleted blog post for the consultancy firm Global Counsel, he said: "Planning reform is a particular contradiction for the Conservatives.

"Despite its electoral importance, reforms must meet the immovable object of rural and suburban councils, often Conservative-held.

"With 221,000 more households in the UK every year, and the current annual number of new houses being built barely just exceeding that, finding a viable policy solution is becoming more urgent than ever."

In May 2024, as the Tory candidate for Milton Keynes Central, Mr Luk vowed to oppose Labour plans for a house building blitz.

Listing his priorities, the candidate posted on X: "Infrastructure before expansion.

"Yes to investing in our existing residents - NO to Labour's plan to build 63,000 more houses."

On his campaign page Mr Luk added: "Milton Keynes is one of the fastest growing Cities in the UK...this is causing pressure on local services, standstill traffic and the erosion of green spaces.

"This is too much and too fast."

According to YMCA Milton Keynes, over 2,000 people are on the housing waiting list and an estimated 2,392 are sofa-surfing.

Labour last night slammed the change in position from Mr Luk.

A spokesperson said: "Even Conservative candidates now admit their housing policy is a complete farce, shattering a generation's dream of home ownership.

"Labour will get Britain building again. We'll reform the planning system and deliver 1.5 million homes - to boost the economy and help working people onto the housing ladder."

A spokesman for Johnny Luk said: "This paper was co-written by another colleague, where Johnny did not have full editorial control, published in 2022 and explores housebuilding from a neutral perspective.

"In Milton Keynes, the Conservatives are building houses at a much higher rate than the national average which is why Johnny is consistently pushing for infrastructure before expansion as one of his local priorities.

"Johnny is proud to stand for the Conservative Party, the natural party of home ownership who have put cutting stamp duty and building more houses in the right areas front of centre of the manifesto."

Worth noting Milton Keynes is literally a new town built in the 1960s

Edit: Incidentally I think BBoy was right. Sunak isn't doing it but the Defence Secretary and other Tories have been talking about the need to stop Labour from having a "supermajority". Obviously it's practically meaningless - a disciplined, united party with a majority of 1 can do as much as a party with a "supermajority". But it is kind of acknowledging defeat (three weeks before the election) and asking for votes to form a strong opposition.

Similarly Sunak's line is very much a focus for anyone but the Tories is a vote for a Labour government.

[Sheilbh]

I've said before I think the reason at least some of the PPE stuff wasn't being reported is because (following the way the courts have developed rules on privacy), it is unlawful to report on the existence of a police investigation. Once someone has been arrested (and charged and in the courts) there are also reporting restrictions.

So my guess was that the silence wasn't because there wasn't a story or a cover-up but legal restrictions/risk on reporting. Particularly with Michelle Mone's company as we know the National Crime Agency had announced they were investigating her company and I think it was reported that hey had raided her home.

And on that note - a man has been arrested in relation to that company for conspiracy to commit fraud and attempting to pervert the course of justice:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jun/12/man-arrested-investigation-ppe-medpro

Obvs reporting restrictions apply so very few details.

(And more broadly the courts have developed privacy law in a very worrying way that I think is wrong in principle and should be overturned by parliament )

[Tamas]

They are really desperate now just talking absolute nonsense even compared to their own standards 

Teenagers joining the army under Rishi Sunak's national service plan would only serve for 25 days, not a whole year as originally implied, Grant Shapps said this morning.