Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Tamas]

In the slightly longer term I'm wondering which party are genuine conservatives supposed to vote for?

My suspicion is that the tories have made a colossal strategic error in promoting Johnson to PM; unless we carry on down a constant factionalist route the voters are bound to notice that the conservatives are not conservatives at some point?

Probably wishful thinking 

Genuine conservatives are gone, or at least not a more substantial demographic than classical liberals.

[The Larch]

So apparently thanks to the Extinction Rebellion protests that blocked the entrance to the Treasury the other day it has been known that the Hungarian ambassador to the UK and the Hungarian foreign minister were with Boris and the cabinet during a crisis meeting, apparently trying to get hungary to veto the extension that the UK is legally forced to request due to the Benn act.

[Josquius]

In the slightly longer term I'm wondering which party are genuine conservatives supposed to vote for?

My suspicion is that the tories have made a colossal strategic error in promoting Johnson to PM; unless we carry on down a constant factionalist route the voters are bound to notice that the conservatives are not conservatives at some point?

Probably wishful thinking 

Maybe we finally will get the situation I dreamed of a decade ago with Labour of the left and Lib Dems of the right?

[garbon]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/oct/07/brexit-latest-news-boris-johnson-court-to-decide-if-boris-johnson-can-be-forced-to-sign-extension-letter-live-news?page=with:block-5d9b1d8f8f081108db9c3b03#block-5d9b1d8f8f081108db9c3b03

Boris Johnson claims EU has not explained in detail why it objects to his Brexit plan

[Tamas]

So apparently thanks to the Extinction Rebellion protests that blocked the entrance to the Treasury the other day it has been known that the Hungarian ambassador to the UK and the Hungarian foreign minister were with Boris and the cabinet during a crisis meeting, apparently trying to get hungary to veto the extension that the UK is legally forced to request due to the Benn act.

It has not been picked up yet in Hungarian news yet as far as I can tell, and no propaganda build-up has started for sure, so I would guess Boris could not come up with a big enough "incentive".

Must be tougher nowadays. With Hungary having been sold wholesale to Russia and China, the rulers' salary expectations must have gone up since the early days.

And it would not be a guaranteed non-issue to veto, domestically. There are tens of thousands of "Skype-grandparents" as we call them, with offspring and family members in the UK , they would not be amused if a hard border came up between them and the UK on account of the Dear Leader.

[The Brain]

I'm shocked that Johnson is too unskilled to successfully bribe Orban.

[Zanza]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/oct/07/brexit-latest-news-boris-johnson-court-to-decide-if-boris-johnson-can-be-forced-to-sign-extension-letter-live-news?page=with:block-5d9b1d8f8f081108db9c3b03#block-5d9b1d8f8f081108db9c3b03

Boris Johnson claims EU has not explained in detail why it objects to his Brexit plan

Considering the British letter lacked any legally operative text, it is impossible to object in detail. And the general objections the EU has were of course communicated publicly and presumably privately as well. So this is just part of his act to present the EU as blocking a deal.

[Duque de Bragança]

I'm shocked that Johnson is too unskilled to successfully bribe Orban.

Just buy his huge cannon, and voilà!

[The Brain]

I'm shocked that Johnson is too unskilled to successfully bribe Orban.

Just buy his huge cannon, and voilà!

[Barrister]

So apparently thanks to the Extinction Rebellion protests that blocked the entrance to the Treasury the other day it has been known that the Hungarian ambassador to the UK and the Hungarian foreign minister were with Boris and the cabinet during a crisis meeting, apparently trying to get hungary to veto the extension that the UK is legally forced to request due to the Benn act.

Apparently Edmonton has a branch of Extinction Rebellion.  Today they blocked a main bridge across the river, frustrating hundred if not thousands of commuters.

There were a grand total of 10 protesters though.

[Sheilbh]

In the slightly longer term I'm wondering which party are genuine conservatives supposed to vote for?

My suspicion is that the tories have made a colossal strategic error in promoting Johnson to PM; unless we carry on down a constant factionalist route the voters are bound to notice that the conservatives are not conservatives at some point?

Probably wishful thinking 

I don't know.

It's weird Johnson's team in No 10 have apparently identified the flaw in May's approach of trying to win "Labour Leave" areas was they still had Tory economic policies. Add that to Johnson's "fuck business" comment and apparently when told that his approach would lose seats like Guildford, he replied "we'll have to do without Guildford" it makes me think there's a few odd questions.

Where do genuine small-c institutional conservatives go?
How long does a Thatcher-loving ideologically right-wing party membership (and cabinet) put up with spending lots of money?
If their whole approach is that Tory economic policies don't in the North and they need to win the North, doesn't that end up leaving a huge gap for a small state, traditional right-wing party in, say, the Home Counties?

This is partly why I still don't know how to read the polls (which are also diverging massively). The SNP will sweep Scotland, but will the Tories pile up enough votes in the North and Midlands to really do better than in 2017? And do they keep hold of their seats in the South running on a hardline no deal Brexit plus massive spending promises - it's striking that the Lib Dems seem to feel they have a chance in John Redwood's seat in Wokingham (Tory vote 57%)?

The nobile officium application failed on the basis of the Government's argument's in court. In particular they noted the Advocate General "has set out clearly and unequivocally the Prime Minister's intention to comply with his statutory duties under the 2019 Act. This has been done by way of detailed and specific averments in written pleadings put before the court on the professional responsibility of those acting for the Prime Minister and the government and with the express authority of the Advocate General for Scotland; he himself is, of course, an officer of the court."

Basically then go on to say that the court has no basis legally to hold that the government is likely to break its undertakings in court. All of which seems to put the government on warning that if they don't follow through the court will act, especially because they've been given detailed and specific averments by an officer of the court (which may be stressing out the Advocate General for Scotland right now).

[The Minsky Moment]

Apparently Edmonton has a branch of Extinction Rebellion.  Today they blocked a main bridge across the river, frustrating hundred if not thousands of commuters.

Wonder how much extra CO2 went into the atmosphere from the idling cars?

[The Minsky Moment]

It's weird Johnson's team in No 10 have apparently identified the flaw in May's approach of trying to win "Labour Leave" areas was they still had Tory economic policies. Add that to Johnson's "fuck business" comment and apparently when told that his approach would lose seats like Guildford, he replied "we'll have to do without Guildford" it makes me think there's a few odd questions.

Where do genuine small-c institutional conservatives go?
How long does a Thatcher-loving ideologically right-wing party membership (and cabinet) put up with spending lots of money?

Mirrors the situation in the US with the Trumpist Party advocating protectionism and massive deficit spending - Trump of course made some inroads in traditional blue collar areas of the Midwest while losing support in traditional GOP leaning affluent suburbs.

[Oexmelin]

Apparently Edmonton has a branch of Extinction Rebellion.  Today they blocked a main bridge across the river, frustrating hundred if not thousands of commuters.

There were a grand total of 10 protesters though.

If only they hadn't frustrated those commuters: I am sure the Conservatives would have developed a green plan worthy of the name.

[Sheilbh]

Mirrors the situation in the US with the Trumpist Party advocating protectionism and massive deficit spending - Trump of course made some inroads in traditional blue collar areas of the Midwest while losing support in traditional GOP leaning affluent suburbs.

True. This already sort of started with the Tories winning Mansfield (Labour since 1923) and Labour winning Canterbury (Tory since 1918).

I suppose the unpredictable difference with the UK is there are multiple parties vying for votes and there's every indication Johnson will follow through on Infrastructure Week, rather than just massive tax cuts and trade disruption.