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Shootings and explosions in Paris

Started by Barrister, November 13, 2015, 04:32:42 PM

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Duque de Bragança

#555
Quote from: Razgovory on November 23, 2015, 11:09:49 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on November 23, 2015, 05:39:52 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 23, 2015, 04:14:44 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 21, 2015, 02:47:15 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 21, 2015, 12:59:01 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 20, 2015, 11:03:25 PM
I find it dumbfounding that the Europeans continue to cut and starve their militaries while the Middle East blows up and Russia flexes its muscles. Is this some kind of weird suicide pact?

"Those goddamn warmongering Yanks will take care of it".

Not really. Countries that have no military power comparable to their economic potential are quite safe.

The worst what the US public could do is to stop fulfilling its treaty commitments to Poland because Belgium is not spending enough on its army.

Yes, really.  The NATO guideline for military spending is a minimum of 2% of GDP.  Of the 28 member states only five meet that this year.  US, UK, Greece, Estonia and Poland.  Last year it was four, Poland joined the club just this year.  From here it looks like a lot like Europe's strategy is to cut spending and let the Americans work it out.

Seems you forgot France in your list. Even before the extra spending linked to the recent events: 2.2 %, more or less like the UK.

PS:  conflicting reports from NATO and the World bank.  :hmm:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/nato-calls-for-rise-in-defence-spending-by-alliance-members-1434978193

Nope, I didn't forget it.

Then you should you have looked at other sources.
WSJ link requires subscription for me now.
I got other figures from the World Bank as I mentioned in the edit at the end of my post.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS
               2011 2012 2013 2014

France   2.3   2.2   2.2   2.2   

Besides, France has one of the only militaries in the EU with power projection capabilities. Other example being the UK. That has to count for something as well. Not to mention the nuclear bomb.
I'm sure the Turkish Army has projection capacities as well but they have got their hands full now thanks to Erdogan.

Razgovory

WSJ source was NATO.  I did find another source, the International institute for strategic studies, but that put's France at below the acknowledged goal.  CIA put it at 1.8 in 2012.  I think there is also a problem that very significant portion (28%) of the funding goes to the Gendarmes rather then conventional military forces.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

alfred russel

I have time off coming up, and was thinking this would be a great time for a cheap ticket to Europe, but it seems not. :(
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

KRonn

Quote from: Archy on November 23, 2015, 01:30:12 AM
The terrorists are winning Brussels is a city under hostage. No metros,  schools today. Shopping centers closed and a lot of evenements were canceled. And because of this my earlier bus didn't show without earlier warning.  :mad: :(

We're also seeing this reported quite heavily in US media.

Crazy_Ivan80

Quote from: KRonn on November 23, 2015, 02:54:55 PM
Quote from: Archy on November 23, 2015, 01:30:12 AM
The terrorists are winning Brussels is a city under hostage. No metros,  schools today. Shopping centers closed and a lot of evenements were canceled. And because of this my earlier bus didn't show without earlier warning.  :mad: :(

We're also seeing this reported quite heavily in US media.

Brussels will not have been safer in years.
Anyways: the first warnings that things were going wrong in Molembeek date from 2005! With repeats in 2006, 2008, 2009 and 2011. None of this is actually surprising for those not blinded by po-co.

Duque de Bragança

According to Lesoir.be, Salam Abdeslam, the last wanted terrorist suspect, was last seen in Liège by Belgian security forces but they could not get it. Last info says he was driving a BMW on the motorway to Germany. Liège is close to Aachen/Aix-la-Chapelle.

QuoteAbdeslam repéré près de Liège
Selon nos informations, les unités spéciales et le peloton antibanditisme ont également concentré leurs efforts sur Liège et ses environs. Salah Abdeslam aurait été formellement repéré par le peloton antibanditisme chaussée de Tongres à Rocourt vers 19 h 30 à bord d'une BMW de type 3 ou 5. Il aurait toutefois réussi à s'enfuir en empruntant l'E40 en direction de l'Allemagne.

Cette piste liégeoise serait à lier à une autre perquisition menée à Dampremy à proximité de Charleroi, vers 20 h 45. Un homme a été intercepté lors de cette perquisition.

http://www.lesoir.be/1050642/article/actualite/regions/bruxelles/2015-11-22/abdeslam-est-toujours-en-fuite-l-operation-antiterroriste-n-est-pas-encor

An explosive belt was also found in a rubbish bin in Montrouge, near Paris, possibly linked to Abdeslam.

mongers

Developing hostage situation and gunfire in Northern France, not clear if it's related to the events in Paris or a domestic/armed robbery etc.

Quote'Hostage situation' in northern French town of Roubaix
24 November 2015
From the section
Europe

Reports say that a group of armed men may have taken hostages in the northern French town of Roubaix.

There are conflicting initial reports on local media on where exactly in the town the incident is taking place.

Local media said the incident took place at around 19:00 local time (18:00 GMT).

Witnesses reported gunshots being fired. Media reports say the neighbourhood has been closed off by police.

It is not yet clear if the incident is related to the ongoing security situation in France following the 13 November attacks in Paris.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34917226
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Valmy

Yeah it could just be an ordinary armed hostage situation. Guess we will wait and see.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Crazy_Ivan80

Iirc, isn't Roubaix also one of those town run into the ground by the socialists, filled with load and loads of arabs. There have at least been more than enough franco-arab robber-groups crossing the border to steal and plunder in Flanders over the past few decades.

viper37

I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

Liep

Quote from: viper37 on November 25, 2015, 09:31:40 AM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34917226
it had nothing to do with terrorism or arabs.

Common criminality really can warm one's heart in these troubled times.
"Af alle latterlige Ting forekommer det mig at være det allerlatterligste at have travlt" - Kierkegaard

"JamenajmenømahrmDÆ!DÆ! Æhvnårvaæhvadlelæh! Hvor er det crazy, det her, mand!" - Uffe Elbæk

Berkut

Quote from: viper37 on November 25, 2015, 09:31:40 AM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34917226
it had nothing to do with terrorism or arabs.

ZOMG STOP DENYING THE BASIC FOUNDATIONS OF THE PROBLEM!!!!!

Oh wait.

You mean it really had nothing to do with arabs or Muslims or anything?

Oh.

Uhhhh....never mind then.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

select * from users where clue > 0
0 rows returned

Valmy

Quote from: viper37 on November 25, 2015, 09:31:40 AM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34917226
it had nothing to do with terrorism or arabs.

When will the moderate bank robbers stand up and put a stop to these things?
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

mongers

This does hightlight one of the things IS doesn't do, other than the biggest 'bank raid' when they took over Mosul with it's Iraq federal bank/s, IS doesn't seem short of money and hasn't had to rely on bank raids in Europe to finance their operations, unlike traditional groups like the IRA, Barder-Minoff, INLA etc.
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Duque de Bragança

Ah, Roubaix (part of the Greater Lille)... :D
An early islamist cell started by robbing banks to finance jihad, precisely in Roubaix, around 1996, after fighting in Bosnia.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_de_Roubaix
The hostage situation took place in one of the somewhat bourgeois areas of Roubaix, an enclave if you will.  :P
Roubaix is an old mono-industrial city (textile) notorious for its painful economic reconversion, huge immigration and criminality. Twin cities : Bradistan Bradford, Verviers (islamist cell neutralised early this year).