Shootings and explosions in Paris

[Norgy]

You didn't import them out of the goodness of your heart, you know...

I'm so fed up with the argument that the left imports immigrants to get more votes and that Labour is in cahoots with muslims.
There is no actual evidence of this happening, but a nice fantasy for the idiots voting rightwing parties in Mitteleuropa.

[derspiess]

Well, it's either to get more votes or pure ethnomasochism.

[Norgy]

Thanks for proving my point.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

"So eagerly imported". You sound like Breivik.

and you sound in denial.

[Capetan Mihali]

Well, it's either to get more votes or pure ethnomasochism.

LOL CUCKS

But seriously: Les Trentes Glorieuese, the Wirtschaftswunder, whatever the Belgian, Dutch, and Scandinavian equivalents were -- does this board's historical recall stop at the fall of Stalingrad?  What the fuck do you think all "these people" came for?

[Capetan Mihali]

You didn't import them out of the goodness of your heart, you know...

That's a better reason than "our pension plan only works as a Ponzi scheme".

  Not sure I grasp your point here.

[Norgy]

"So eagerly imported". You sound like Breivik.

and you sound in denial.

No, I am actually rather up-to-date and read more than headlines. I see refugees becoming useful and contributing citizens every day. Just don't let them rot in one part of a city and make it a ghetto. Because, yes, that happens.

You probably have a different experience than me with them, but saying this was some kind of leftist plan is just nourishing latent fascism.

It would also be wise to look at how our public health system would work without immigration.

[The Brain]

There's no sound in denial.

[Norgy]

Well, I said my piece, i'll leave the floor and bid you an elegant goodbye in this thread with a subtle middle finger raised.

[Capetan Mihali]

Well, I said my piece, i'll leave the floor and bid you an elegant goodbye in this thread with a subtle middle finger raised.

Better you should spend your time starting an Israel-Palestine thread, Norge.

[Duque de Bragança]

You didn't import them out of the goodness of your heart, you know...

I'm so fed up with the argument that the left imports immigrants to get more votes and that Labour is in cahoots with muslims.
There is no actual evidence of this happening, but a nice fantasy for the idiots voting rightwing parties in Mitteleuropa.

Self-proclaimed lefti(s)ts should remember Engels and Marx about the use of foreign labour for wage deflation. Reserve army and all that. A whole chapter about it on the Condition of the Working Class in England by Engels. Back then, the Irish.
The left used to be against mass immigration. Still remember Georges Marchais, French communist party secretary general, wanting an end to all immigration in the early '80s. Unlike socialists and lots of the right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG2BA9SxClM

Now, with the champagne left, it's all different.

[Martim Silva]

Self-proclaimed leftits should remember Engels and Marx about the use of foreign labour for wage deflation. Reserve army and all that. A whole chapter about it on the Condition of the Working Class in England by Engels. Back then, the Irish.
The left used to be against mass immigration. Still remember Georges Marchais, French communist party secretary general, wanting an end to all immigration in the early '80s. Unlike socialists and lots of the right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG2BA9SxClM

Now, with the champagne left, it's all different.

The REAL left (the one that cares about the Working Class) is, and always has been, against uncontrolled migration that only hurts the workers (both the domestic and the migrants, who have to compete with even newer arrivals). The Russian Communist Party, for example, has strict demands to stop muslim immigration.

(recently it even had to remove one image from its site, for being too offensive to muslims : http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russian-communist-party-removes-controversial-anti-immigration-drawing-from-website/561507.html )

It's the pseudo-left (rich bourgeois that really don't care about the People nor the Workers) that want that. It's a movement that is actually a way for rich, decadent, deviant imperialists to pose themselves as "leftists" while in fact defending anti-worker policies. They are mostly used to dupe young bourgeois kids, the dumb who think they are voting for "moderate left" and the foolish gutmensch, who like to believe they are doing the People a favour by following those liars.

The divide can best be seen in the NATO vs former East Bloc countries: while in western areas there is almost no desire to confront what is clearly an attempt to replace the population with cheap labour, with no regard for culture or social peace, in former Socialist nations of the EU the rejection of these economic migrants is total, as it should be in any sane country - just see the examples of Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary and Slovakia.

And it's not a left or right issue therel,either - in these countries the refusal to accept any the influx of muslims is defended by both left-wing and right-wing governments, since it's obvious to anyone what this means in the long run. And the same can be seen on a smaller scale in Germany - the opposition to the migration is clear in the East, and very subdued in the West.

This clearly shows that these attitudes, defended as they are by the pseudo-left, are rooted in the ideology that has been created in the Western world for the last decades, and is far from being the norm worldwide. No rational person in the non-western world can think of what what the western europeans are defending as logical or even acceptable.


The World Socialist website explains how this 'pseudo-left' can be identified better than I can:

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/07/30/pers-j30.html

* The pseudo-left denotes political parties, organizations and theoretical/ideological tendencies which utilize populist slogans and democratic phrases to promote the socioeconomic interests of privileged and affluent strata of the middle class. Examples of such parties and tendencies include Syriza in Greece, Podemos in Spain, Die Linke in Germany, and numerous offshoots of ex-Trotskyist (i.e., Pabloite) and state capitalist organizations such as the Nouveau Parti Anticapitaliste (NPA) in France, the NSSP in Sri Lanka and the International Socialist Organization in the United States. This list could include the remnants and descendants of the "Occupy" movements influenced by anarchist and post-anarchist tendencies. Given the wide variety of petty-bourgeois pseudo-left organizations throughout the world, this is by no means a comprehensive list.

* The pseudo-left is anti-Marxist. It rejects historical materialism, embracing instead various forms of subjective idealism and philosophical irrationalism associated with existentialism, the Frankfurt School and contemporary postmodernism.

* The pseudo-left is anti-socialist, opposes class struggle, and denies the central role of the working class and the necessity of revolution in the progressive transformation of society. It counterposes supra-class populism to the independent political organization and mass mobilization of the working class against the capitalist system. The economic program of the pseudo-left is, in its essentials, pro-capitalist and nationalistic.

* The pseudo-left promotes "identity politics," fixating on issues related to nationality, ethnicity, race, gender and sexuality in order to acquire greater influence in corporations, the colleges and universities, the higher-paying professions, the trade unions and in government and state institutions, to effect a more favorable distribution of wealth among the richest 10 percent of the population. The pseudo-left seeks greater access to, rather than the destruction of, social privilege.

* In the imperialist centers of North America, Western Europe and Australasia, the pseudo-left is generally pro-imperialist, and utilizes the slogans of "human rights" to legitimize, and even directly support, neo-colonialist military operations.

[LaCroix]

who cares what engels/marx thought?

[Martinus]

Damn, Martim, every time I am beginning to lean conservative, you make such a great argument for me to embrace the pseudo-left.

[Eddie Teach]

who cares what engels/marx thought?

Self-proclaimed left tits.