Shootings and explosions in Paris

[MadImmortalMan]

It means that [ if god then freewill>good ]

[garbon]

Who was the free will on how they are born?

Their parents... or did you think that free will only applies to you?

Sorry the 'they' was with regards to the not yet born. And no, other than choosing not to have the children, I don't think the parents had much say in what BB is talking about.

The answer remains the same.  The parents made the choice of their own free will, they just don't understand the consequences of those actions.  Consequences to an action can be almost impossible to predict, but that doesn't mean you aren't caused by someone's free will.  Most of the time bad things that happen to you are due to the choices of others, even if they didn't intend to hurt you.  Simply because you (or another person) lack a perfect knowledge of events doesn't mean God has it in for you.

Except, in a world where it isn't God who determined it, the parents' free will was simply was whether the babies were born or not. The absence of the expected condition wasn't due to their decision.

[mongers]

The Paris prosecutor thinks this was a separate cell of terrorists to those who mounted Fridays attack. So the most wanted man from that attack is still at large and it's unclear if the the Belgian 'mastermind' has died in this siege, some american sources think so.

[Tamas]

In Marseilles a couple of IS-praising idiots attacked a Jewish teacher, while somebody in the same city cut a veiled Muslim woman while she was leaving the metro, swearing at her religion.

I think the terrorists must be feeling like this now:

[Duque de Bragança]

In Marseilles a couple of IS-praising idiots attacked a Jewish teacher, while somebody in the same city cut a veiled Muslim woman while she was leaving the metro, swearing at her religion.

Business as usual in Marseille, sadly.

[Tamas]

ahhh

[Duque de Bragança]

The Paris prosecutor thinks this was a separate cell of terrorists to those who mounted Fridays attack. So the most wanted man from that attack is still at large and it's unclear if the the Belgian 'mastermind' has died in this siege, some american sources think so.

It's still unclear.

He was not among the 8 people apprehended .
Washington Post announced his death quoting two official European sources. Death circumstances are not clear, killed during the shooting, the explosion of the female terrorist or if he committed suicide.

French ambassador in India also mentioned informations that would suggest the mastermind committed suicide.

RTL radio (private mainstream radio) also supports this version, quoting a former DGSE official (French external security agency abroad), himself citing three sources, two in France and one in Belgium.

Hier soir, le procureur de Paris a annoncé qu'il ne figure pas parmi les huit personnes interpellées. Son sort n'est pas certain pour autant: de nombreux médias étrangers ont annoncé sa mort dans l'assaut. Le Washington Post l'affirme, citant deux sources européennes officielles de deux pays différents. D'après le quotidien américain, les conditions de cette mort ne seraient pas claires et les sources ignoreraient s'il a été tué dans la fusillade, dans l'explosion de la femme kamikaze ou s'il se serait suicidé.

L'ambassadeur de France en Inde a, de son côté, également évoqué la mort du commanditaire présumé dans une interview à la chaîne NDTV. "J'ai des informations qui nous laissent penser qu'il s'est suicidé. Je ne possède aucun document particulier le mentionnant mais c'est la première information que nous avons reçu", a expliqué François Richier.

Ce matin, RTL reprend également cette information, citant un ancien agent de renseignement à la DGSE. Ce dernier s'appuie, selon la radio, sur trois sources différentes, deux en France et une en Belgique, dans les milieux sécuritaires.

Lors de sa prise de parole, le procureur a fait état d'"au moins deux morts" parmi les occupants de l'appartement, dont un "corps criblé d'impacts" et non-identifiable visuellement. L'autre personne décédée est la femme ayant actionné son gilet d'explosifs.

PS: The mastermind Abdelhamid Abaaoud has been formally identified among the corpses in Saint-Denis, following the assault, according to the Paris prosecutor.

[jimmy olsen]

The ringleader's remains have been identified.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34867615

[Duque de Bragança]

State of Emergency extended and strengthened till February after a near-unanimous vote at the Assemblée Nationale : 551 votes for only 6 against.
Union Nationale for now.

[Valmy]

State of Emergency extended and strengthened till February after a near-unanimous vote at the Assemblée Nationale : 551 votes for only 6 against.
Union Nationale for now.

I thought you said l'union sacrée had already broken down? I can call it l'union sacrée can't I? Because that would make me happy.

Dans la guerre qui s'engage, la France sera héroïquement défendue par tous ses fils, dont rien ne brisera devant l'ennemi l'union sacrée

[Duque de Bragança]

State of Emergency extended and strengthened till February after a near-unanimous vote at the Assemblée Nationale : 551 votes for only 6 against.
Union Nationale for now.

I thought you said l'union sacrée had already broken down? I can call it l'union sacrée can't I? Because that would make me happy.

Dans la guerre qui s'engage, la France sera héroïquement défendue par tous ses fils, dont rien ne brisera devant l'ennemi l'union sacrée

Of course you can call it l'Union sacrée, bit of a WWI vibe though.
I was indeed pessimistic, but the debates prior to the vote were not very engaging.

http://www.lesechos.fr/politique-societe/politique/021486328974-lunion-nationale-sest-fracassee-1176001.php
Videos feeds included in the link to give an idea of the ambient during the debate

The ones who voted against are 3 Greens and 3 Socialist "frondeurs" (Valls=Mazarin Flanby=Louis XIV ?)

edit: votes edited

[Razgovory]

Except, in a world where it isn't God who determined it, the parents' free will was simply was whether the babies were born or not. The absence of the expected condition wasn't due to their decision.

No, the parents chose to have a child, but they didn't understand all possible results of it.  Free will is about the choice, not the final outcome which you may or may be able to predict.  Unless you believe that genetic defects are actually due to things like magic.

[Duque de Bragança]

Little noticed was France using for the first time a little known clause adopted in the last EU treaty. Practical effects remain to be seen, given the sorry state of most militaries in the continent. Besides the UK, on the way out of the EU, which itself is not in a great shape militarily speaking, but not overstretched like the French armed forces. As for Germany... 
Italy is busy in the Med with the illegals, Poland has a border with Russia (peaceful for now) and the Ukraine question is not solved. Spain? Economic crisis is not over, yet. And so on...
The other, smaller countries, won't be able to assist in a significant way, even if they wanted to.
As for going through NATO, with allies such as Erdogan's islamist Turkey, there's no ideal solution.

France invokes EU's article 42.7, but what does it mean?

The mutual defence clause is in play for the first time, but there are limits to what member states must do to help

France admits it is struggling to cope with foreign military commitments and the need for extra security at home.
Ian Traynor in Brussels

France has taken the European Union into uncharted territory by obliging the other 27 member states to come to its defence following the terrorist atrocities in Paris.

Invoking article 42.7, a never used clause of the EU treaty triggering mutual defence among the 28 member states, Paris admitted it was struggling to cope with its foreign military commitments while beefing up security at home in the wake of the attacks, and asked the rest of Europe to come to its assistance.

The request was supported unanimously in what Jean-Yves Le Drian, the French defence minister, described as an emotional and highly charged meeting of EU defence ministers in Brussels.

As a result of the train attacks in Spain in 2004, the EU inserted mutual defence measures into the Lisbon treaty similar to the Nato alliance's article five, which obliges all member countries to come to the defence of one of their number if attacked.

As the EU does not have an army, the French will now conduct a set of bilateral negotiations with other EU states on what kind of military help might be available.

Article 42.7 stipulates that "if a member state is the victim of armed aggression on its territory, the other member states shall have towards it an obligation of aid and assistance by all the means in their power, in accordance with article 51 of the United Nations charter".

However, the article adds: "This shall not prejudice the specific character of the security and defence policy of certain member states."

The latter sentence means that the neutrality of countries such as Ireland, Austria, and Sweden cannot be impugned, while the emphasis on help from "member states" means that the defence arrangements are agreed between national governments in the EU without the involvement of the institutions in Brussels such as the European commission or the European parliament. This leaves France free to strike deals with other governments without any interference from Brussels.

By contrast, article 222 of the treaty, eschewed in this instance by the French, says that "the union and its member states shall act jointly in a spirit of solidarity if a member state is the object of a terrorist attack or the victim of a natural or man-made disaster. The union shall mobilise all the instruments at its disposal, including the military resources made available by the member states."

This would hand a major role to the European commission, which Paris has opted to avoid.

The British government said it stood ready to assist the French. The German defence minister, Ursula von der Leyen, said that the French invocation of the mutual defence clause meant only that there was "a basis for consultation".

A priority is likely to be an attempt at greater sharing of intelligence among EU states to try to counter terrorism, amid growing evidence that failure to act on intelligence by the French and Belgian security services may have contributed to the Paris attacks.

"We need greater intelligence sharing," said an ambassador to the EU.

The issue is likely to come up on Friday at an emergency meeting in Brussels of EU interior ministers.

Reinforcing the external borders of the EU is another area where the pledges might be applied, with increasing talk of military elements being added to police operations on the EU's frontiers.

But Paris also appeared to be asking its EU partners for some relief from its foreign military commitments, including participation in UN missions in Africa and Lebanon as well as its involvement in the bombing campaign against Islamic State in Syria and Iraq.

Le Drian admitted that France was overstretched. "France can't do everything. It can't act alone," he said. "Every country said, I am going to help you. That can take different forms. There are many types of assistance possible, whether in the Middle Eastern arena or elsewhere.

[/b]"How is this going to work?" said Le Drian. "It may be by cooperating with French interventions in Syria, in Iraq, it may be in support of France in other operations."[/b]

Attending the EU defence meeting, the Nato secretary general, Jens Stoltenberg, said Paris had not tabled any parallel request to trigger article five.

"It's a political act, a political message," said Federica Mogherini, the EU's foreign and security policy coordinator. Each member state would contribute to helping France in line with their capabilities and foreign policies, she added. The details would be developed in a set of bilateral talks between national governments and France.

"The prime minister has been clear that we will do whatever we can to help the French government at this time, and that we need to work together to defeat these terrorists," said a UK government spokesman.

"We have been in constant contact with the French authorities since Friday. This is about a French request for bilateral assistance from other EU member states. We understand and support the French decision, and we stand ready to consider any French request for assistance."

EU positions on Syria were shifting as a result of the Paris attacks, senior diplomats said. Britain, Germany, Italy and Spain are now said to support concentrating military efforts on eradicating Isis and being less insistent for the time being on bringing down the Syrian regime.

France, which has consistently taken the most hawkish line on the regime of President Bashar al-Assad, was not diluting its position, the diplomats said, while tiny Luxembourg, currently chairing the EU, takes the toughest line of all, arguing that Assad should be deposed by military means.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/17/france-invokes-eu-article-427-what-does-it-mean

[Maladict]

France just gained some more commitments in Mali.

[Duque de Bragança]

France just gained some more commitments in Mali.

It's not like more were needed...

Gunmen attacked the iconic Radisson hotel in the Malian capital of Bamako on Friday. The attackers are believed to have taken hostages, according to a security sources.

Automatic weapons fire could be heard from outside the luxury 190-room hotel, where security forces have set up a security cordon, according to witnesses.

"A hostage-taking or attempted hostage-taking is in progress," said FRANCE 24 correspondent Serge Daniel, reporting from Bamako. Daniel said that security forces had established a security perimeter around the hotel and that the hotel was "completely sealed off".

The identity of the attackers and their motives are not yet known.

"It's all happening on the seventh floor, jihadists are firing in the corridor," a security source told AFP.

Witnesses told FRANCE 24's Daniel that the attackers arrived at the hotel in a car with diplomatic license plates.

The US Embassy in Bamako issued a statement on Twitter stating that it was aware of an, "ongoing active shooter operation at the Radisson Hotel". Another message said, "The U.S. Embassy staff has been asked to shelter in place. All U.S. citizens should shelter in place. "

http://www.france24.com/en/20151120-mali-bamako-hotel-gunfire-attack-terrorism-radisson