sub-Roman Britain, the Romano-British, and the Welsh

[Josquius]

See I had always thought that the Welsh were, for lack of a better term, 'pure' Brythonic people who were basically unconquered and unassimilated.  But if what I read was true, then that clearly isn't the case, unless the Welsh totally fabricated their ancestry claims (which I guess is also possible).

I don't know the details but the English claimed the same damn thing about being descended from pure Germanic stock that 100% ethnically cleansed the Britons out of England, and thus unconquered and mighty (except by the Normans and Vikings who were also 100% Germanically pure) and well LOL.

I've never heard of Brits being too into pan Germanism.
Though there was definitely an idea of Anglo Saxon= great and wonderful civilized folk, welsh=barbarians.
Though yeah, wonder how they squared that when they knew even since bede that their people had been the barbarians invading the roman welsh.

I like this period a lot too, though I have a bit more interest in the later Anglo Saxon times. What with there being more to know about them and it being a last hurrah for the old gods. I can't wait until they finally finish the last kingdom tv series.

[Valmy]

I remember reading about some thing called the "Troll Kirk" in rural Norway or Sweden that may have been used for pagan ceremonies as late as the 18th century?

Lithuanian Paganism was still being practiced in the 16th century, probably the last major pagan religion around in Euroland. So I thought there might be some records of its beliefs and practices but no. Barely anything is known about it.

[Caliga]

All I know about it is their thunder god was named Perkunas and he was a badass similar to Thor.

[Razgovory]

I remember reading about some thing called the "Troll Kirk" in rural Norway or Sweden that may have been used for pagan ceremonies as late as the 18th century?

Lithuanian Paganism was still being practiced in the 16th century, probably the last major pagan religion around in Euroland. So I thought there might be some records of its beliefs and practices but no. Barely anything is known about it.

I think Sami animists existed past that.  As for Indo-European paganism, it's still alive and well, in India.  The variant of Perkunas seems to have been worshiped in India at one time, before he got folded into Indra.

[grumbler]

Dunno why you are apologizing.  This is a perfectly valid use of Wikipedia information.  Misuse comes when you use Wikipedia information to support an argument.  Wiki article writers are not authorities and are often incompetent, biased, or both.

It was more of a grumbler nod/reference than a bonafide apology.

Ah, the meme.  Got it, and I withdraw my comment.

[Legbiter]

Your chances for that kind of thing are probably better in Iceland. But maybe Norgy will comment and set me straight 

Iceland adopted Christianity fairly early in around 1000 AD by arbitration at the Alþing. Eating horseflesh, exposure of infants and private pagan worship were retained from the old customs to smooth things over.

Today there's a solid Ásatrú community here but it's a modern revival.

[Queequeg]

I don't know the details but the English claimed the same damn thing about being descended from pure Germanic stock that 100% ethnically cleansed the Britons out of England, and thus unconquered and mighty (except by the Normans and Vikings who were also 100% Germanically pure) and well LOL.

Wasn't there some recent DNA testing conducted that suggested that this most definitely was NOT the case, and that modern English ancestry has a higher percentage of pre-Germanic ancestry than Germanic, with only a few regional variations where that wasn't true?  I thought I read that in a BBC article.

edit:  Maybe it was this: http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/mar/18/genetic-study-30-percent-white-british-dna-german-ancestry

Germany itself is quite mixed.  This is the "core Germanic" area from around the time the Celts were at their greatest extent.  Modern Bavaria and the Czech Republic are the homeland of the core Celtic culture and language.  A lot of core "Germanic" culture comes from Celtic influence.

The British Isles are a genetic mess, but there's quite a bit of continuity genetically.  As you might expect, isolated Irish and general Welsh populations are the most insulated, and are IIRC quite closely connected to the Basques and some of the older Western European populations. 

[Queequeg]

I remember reading about some thing called the "Troll Kirk" in rural Norway or Sweden that may have been used for pagan ceremonies as late as the 18th century?

Lithuanian Paganism was still being practiced in the 16th century, probably the last major pagan religion around in Euroland. So I thought there might be some records of its beliefs and practices but no. Barely anything is known about it.

That would depend on if you count Circassians and some Finnic groups as Europeans, I'd think.  I might.

[Malthus]

Yeah it was a very slow process. Christianity was structured around city life and had a hard time transitioning out into the countryside. Remember one thousand years after the fall of the Western Roman Empire the last pagan nation (much less person) had only been converted for a few decades.

Hence the etymology of "pagan"

One could argue that process of interaction and conflict with traditional practices never really ended.

I wonder if people in the hinterland of Russia still cling to traditional Marxism.

Apparently they can no longer do the ancient sacrifice of the Kulak ceremony ... they substitute a chicken instead.

They get the chicken to break rocks in a minature gulag until it starves to death. 

[Valmy]

As for Indo-European paganism, it's still alive and well, in India.

Well yes I was not saying all paganisms everywhere are dead. Just that I was hopeful that a bit more was known about Lithuanian practices since they were practicing so late but sadly little remains but very basics.

[Valmy]

Your chances for that kind of thing are probably better in Iceland. But maybe Norgy will comment and set me straight 

Iceland adopted Christianity fairly early in around 1000 AD by arbitration at the Alþing. Eating horseflesh, exposure of infants and private pagan worship were retained from the old customs to smooth things over.

Today there's a solid Ásatrú community here but it's a modern revival.

Ah I guess because the Eddas were written down in Iceland I thought they were the last to convert, rather than amongst the first.

[viper37]

funny how it seems the opposite nowadays, with Christian life being stronger in the country-side than in the cities.

Not a coincidence. The conservatism of the countryside has always been very strong. The hopelessness of being a farmer in the face of the tyranny of the elements tends to provoke a certain mentality.

I get the mistrust of a government who considers us no more than colonies to be exploited, but I don't get the "let's worship some unknown mystical figure that will solve everything for us so long as we poison other people's life".

[Valmy]

I get the mistrust of a government who considers us no more than colonies to be exploited, but I don't get the "let's worship some unknown mystical figure that will solve everything for us so long as we poison other people's life".

You lost me on the poison part

I do not know why people have this need for religion.

[viper37]

I always wonder if there's some isolated hamlet someplace in Scandinavia where people still secretly worship Thor.

Hey, it isn't any secret - just listen to some Black Metal. 

Black Metal is about devil worshippers and church burning.
Viking Metal, Scandinavian folk metal, Celtic metal, Power metal, these are the things you're looking for. 

[Malthus]

I always wonder if there's some isolated hamlet someplace in Scandinavia where people still secretly worship Thor.

Hey, it isn't any secret - just listen to some Black Metal. 

Black Metal is about devil worshippers and church burning.
Viking Metal, Scandinavian folk metal, Celtic metal, Power metal, these are the things you're looking for. 

I bow to your encylopedic knowledge of the different flavours of metal.