The Off Topic Topic

[Capetan Mihali]

Minsky and Malthus:  I assume you were both strong supporters of America's "constructive engagement" with South Africa in the 1980s?  After all, at least 120 black jobs could have been lost if we took opposed apartheid.

My recollection was that the SAfrica sanctions and boycotts targeted the regime as a whole.  I.e. they were not specifically targeted at Soweto.  That would been silly and counterproductive, like the BDS policy.

BDS targets the regime as a whole, not just the Occupied Territories.

[The Minsky Moment]

BDS targets the regime as a whole, not just the Occupied Territories.

No they disclaim on their website a generalized boycott and advocate "optimal targets" based on "companies involved in Israeli policies violating Palestinian human rights and international law".  They then single out five specific companies and sectors which have only one thing in common: significant presence in one of the occupied territories.

So it is a targeted boycott that is deliberately targeting employers of the people in whose name the boycott ostensibly is being prosecuted.

Even the BDS people recognize that a generalized sanctions regime against Israel could not command effective support.  But their "targeting" makes no sense either.

[HVC]

I admire tyr's attempts to keep this thread off topic

[Jacob]

If meat eaters acted like vegans: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0O_VYcsIk8

[Capetan Mihali]

Even the BDS people recognize that a generalized sanctions regime against Israel could not command effective support.  But their "targeting" makes no sense either.

As practiced, I can tell you that no distinction is made between "Israel proper" and the Occupied Territories.  Advocacy of a "cultural boycott" of Israeli academics obviously targets the regime proper and the OT, since I don't know of any prominent Israeli universities in Gaza, the West Bank, or the Golan.

But why doesn't make any sense to choose targets where you have a better chance of success, i.e. ones operating in the Occupied Territories, where even generally pro-Israel people feel rather dubious about what Israel is doing in the West Bank and Gaza?  The success with Veolia's involvement in the East Jerusalen light rail brought a lot of attention to the movement, and there's no reason it can't be expanded upon.  But, no, I guess involvement in BDS is per se stupidity, because. 

[derspiess]

If meat eaters acted like vegans: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0O_VYcsIk8

That's kind of how I act.

[Malthus]

As practiced, I can tell you that no distinction is made between "Israel proper" and the Occupied Territories.  Advocacy of a "cultural boycott" of Israeli academics obviously targets the regime proper and the OT, since I don't know of any prominent Israeli universities in Gaza, the West Bank, or the Golan.

But why doesn't make any sense to choose targets where you have a better chance of success, i.e. ones operating in the Occupied Territories, where even generally pro-Israel people feel rather dubious about what Israel is doing in the West Bank and Gaza?  The success with Veolia's involvement in the East Jerusalen light rail brought a lot of attention to the movement, and there's no reason it can't be expanded upon.  But, no, I guess involvement in BDS is per se stupidity, because.

I think the issue is "what's good for the movement" may not be the same as "achieving anything worthwhile for the actual Palestinians living on the WB".

It may well be, but so far I haven't seen any actual evidence that it is, and lots that it isn't.

[Admiral Yi]

But, no, I guess involvement in BDS is per se stupidity, because.

It's comments like this that make me think it would be best to leave the discussion.

[DGuller]

Anyone remember Mishka?

[Eddie Teach]

Anyone remember Mishka?

Was he a jew who secretly loved Jesus?

[Capetan Mihali]

But, no, I guess involvement in BDS is per se stupidity, because.

It's comments like this that make me think it would be best to leave the discussion.

And just leave them to their smug Zionist petting party?  Perhaps.  But Minsky's basically said as much, not to mention the much nastier barbs that have been aimed at me personally over the course of this freak-out that a Nakba Day post was made.

[Capetan Mihali]

I think the issue is "what's good for the movement" may not be the same as "achieving anything worthwhile for the actual Palestinians living on the WB".

It may well be, but so far I haven't seen any actual evidence that it is, and lots that it isn't.

The Palestinians started this movement.  And AIPAC et al are, in fact, quite concerned about it.

[HVC]

Anyone remember Mishka?

Was he a jew who secretly loved Jesus?

he was a Christian who believed once jews loved Christ the world would end in the rapture. Crazy guy.

[Admiral Yi]

And just leave them to their smug Zionist petting party?  Perhaps.  But Minsky's basically said as much, not to mention the much nastier barbs that have been aimed at me personally over the course of this freak-out that a Nakba Day post was made.

No, leave you to your ranting.  Joan laid out the reasons why he thought this particular policy was bad or misguided (the same ones I had mentioned) and you dismiss the entire argument as "just because."  That's not the kind of discussion i want to take part in.

[Capetan Mihali]

And just leave them to their smug Zionist petting party?  Perhaps.  But Minsky's basically said as much, not to mention the much nastier barbs that have been aimed at me personally over the course of this freak-out that a Nakba Day post was made.

No, leave you to your ranting.  Joan laid out the reasons why he thought this particular policy was bad or misguided (the same ones I had mentioned) and you dismiss the entire argument as "just because."  That's not the kind of discussion i want to take part in.

  Re-read my reply.  It lays out my reasons as to why I thought he was misjudging the policy and why it was actually effective.