The Off Topic Topic

[The Brain]

In relevant languages it's named for the God of Time.

Personal hygiene be damned?

[celedhring]

But for sure Dutch and Scandinavian are pretty easy. Without learning anything you can pick up a Dutch paper and get the gist.

Wouldn't that be true of pretty much any Germanic or Romance language?

Romance languages are far easier I'd say (if you speak one). I can pick up, say, a French/Portuguese/Italian newspaper and understand most of it.

I also speak English and a Dutch/Scandinavian newspaper will just give me a headache.

[Maladict]

a Dutch/Scandinavian newspaper will just give me a headache.

It's typically only the first couple of pages that have tirades against south European economies. 

[Sheilbh]

Matbe it sort of depends on what other languages you were exposed when young? I grew up in Scotland where they teach French in primary schools (auld alliance ) so I feel like Jos does but about romance languages. But in England I think they normally teach German first.

I find Dutch/German quite alien when I look at it, while I've got a dim echo of romance languages (and in fairness have learned a lot more Spanish since I left school).

[Maladict]

Romance languages are far easier I'd say (if you speak one). I can pick up, say, a French/Portuguese/Italian newspaper and understand most of it.

Same with Dutch and German. I can easily read it and make myself understood in a conversation, but I would fail miserably on a proper test.

I observed the same thing taking an Italian language class. There were a lot of Spanish and Portuguese students and they all conversed easily, much to my annoyance. But then when the test came they struggled badly, like I would in German. They are still completely different languages, even if they seem simliar on the surface.

[Josquius]

Matbe it sort of depends on what other languages you were exposed when young? I grew up in Scotland where they teach French in primary schools (auld alliance ) so I feel like Jos does but about romance languages. But in England I think they normally teach German first.

I find Dutch/German quite alien when I look at it, while I've got a dim echo of romance languages (and in fairness have learned a lot more Spanish since I left school).

At my school it was French and German. I curse the day that 10 year old me made the utterly horrific error of being tricked into thinking French was easier and choosing that.
These days going off job listings it seems they've largely switched to French and Spanish (which I would have loved when I was young!). Which sucks massively for my partner who is qualified to speak French and German and refuses to consider that if her Spanish is good enough to watch Spanish shows without subtitles and work in Argentina she probably can say she knows Spanish too.


I've often given thought to whether schools should teach Dutch or a Scandinavian language given that the reason for learning your first language in school should be to learn how to learn languages and you're likely to look much more kindly on such things if given an easy starter. Plus it'd be really useful for learning more about English.

But for sure Dutch and Scandinavian are pretty easy. Without learning anything you can pick up a Dutch paper and get the gist.

Wouldn't that be true of pretty much any Germanic or Romance language?

Romance languages are far easier I'd say (if you speak one). I can pick up, say, a French/Portuguese/Italian newspaper and understand most of it.

I also speak English and a Dutch/Scandinavian newspaper will just give me a headache.

It probably depends on whether its a tabloid or a broadsheet :p

Thats the weird thing with English. Simple words are Germanic whilst complex words are Latin.

[The Larch]

But for sure Dutch and Scandinavian are pretty easy. Without learning anything you can pick up a Dutch paper and get the gist.

Wouldn't that be true of pretty much any Germanic or Romance language?

Romance languages are far easier I'd say (if you speak one). I can pick up, say, a French/Portuguese/Italian newspaper and understand most of it.

Both you and me have the benefit of having two romance mother tongues, though, which makes learning (or at least getting the gist of) a third much easier. When I lived in Italy you could see that Catalans, Valencians, Mallorcans and Galicians became fluent in Italian much faster than people from the rest of Spain.

I also speak English and a Dutch/Scandinavian newspaper will just give me a headache.

A friend of mine told me that if you know German then Dutch is fairly easy, you just have to pronounce things as if you had a throat rash. Scandinavian languages are much more alien, though. Now that I'm learning German I'm finding that English can be a nice crutch for part of the vocabulary, but that's it, mostly.

[Maladict]

At my school it was French and German. I curse the day that 10 year old me made the utterly horrific error of being tricked into thinking French was easier and choosing that.

I found French easier to learn properly than German, which is much closer to Dutch.

I've often given thought to whether schools should teach Dutch or a Scandinavian language given that the reason for learning your first language in school should be to learn how to learn languages and you're likely to look much more kindly on such things if given an easy starter. Plus it'd be really useful for learning more about English.

Schools should teach some basic Latin, and ideally Greek as well. Nearly all European languages will start making more sense.

[The Brain]

But for sure Dutch and Scandinavian are pretty easy. Without learning anything you can pick up a Dutch paper and get the gist.

Wouldn't that be true of pretty much any Germanic or Romance language?

Romance languages are far easier I'd say (if you speak one). I can pick up, say, a French/Portuguese/Italian newspaper and understand most of it.

Both you and me have the benefit of having two romance mother tongues, though, which makes learning (or at least getting the gist of) a third much easier. When I lived in Italy you could see that Catalans, Valencians, Mallorcans and Galicians became fluent in Italian much faster than people from the rest of Spain.

I also speak English and a Dutch/Scandinavian newspaper will just give me a headache.

A friend of mine told me that if you know German then Dutch is fairly easy, you just have to pronounce things as if you had a throat rash. Scandinavian languages are much more alien, though. Now that I'm learning German I'm finding that English can be a nice crutch for part of the vocabulary, but that's it, mostly.

Relax. The probe is designed for this.

[The Larch]

I observed the same thing taking an Italian language class. There were a lot of Spanish and Portuguese students and they all conversed easily, much to my annoyance. But then when the test came they struggled badly, like I would in German. They are still completely different languages, even if they seem simliar on the surface.

It's fairly easy to get by on the initial stages, but perfecting it still takes some effort, and the initial ease can give a sense of false security.

Similar thing here in Galicia with people learning Portuguese.

[The Larch]

Schools should teach some basic Latin, and ideally Greek as well. Nearly all European languages will start making more sense.

I think this feeling is overrated, though. I got one year of latin in HS, and besides being able to identify some word roots it has done basically nothing for my ability to understand modern languages.

[The Brain]

Coito, ergo cum.

[Maladict]

Schools should teach some basic Latin, and ideally Greek as well. Nearly all European languages will start making more sense.

I think this feeling is overrated, though. I got one year of latin in HS, and besides being able to identify some word roots it has done basically nothing for my ability to understand modern languages.

Really? I've always thought it gives one a good grounding in things like cases, gender and declension. Latin is much clearer and more structured, whereas modern languages tend to be messier and more opaque.

[celedhring]

Schools should teach some basic Latin, and ideally Greek as well. Nearly all European languages will start making more sense.

I think this feeling is overrated, though. I got one year of latin in HS, and besides being able to identify some word roots it has done basically nothing for my ability to understand modern languages.

Really? I've always thought it gives one a good grounding in things like cases, gender and declension. Latin is much clearer and more structured, whereas modern languages tend to be messier and more opaque.

I'm on Larchie's opposite side. Granted he's learnt more languages than me but when I dabbled in German, or when I learnt a bit of Czech for my erasmus in Prague, being familiar with i.e. cases and declensions helped me a lot.

[The Larch]

Schools should teach some basic Latin, and ideally Greek as well. Nearly all European languages will start making more sense.

I think this feeling is overrated, though. I got one year of latin in HS, and besides being able to identify some word roots it has done basically nothing for my ability to understand modern languages.

Really? I've always thought it gives one a good grounding in things like cases, gender and declension. Latin is much clearer and more structured, whereas modern languages tend to be messier and more opaque.

Maybe if you don't already have a romance language as a mother tongue, which does cover some of that.