The Labor Pains Megathread

[Jacob]

This is getting way too far onto a topic. 

I messaged CountdeMoney and he said he'd snip this out into its own thread

[Admiral Yi]

Jacob, you've completely lost me.

[PDH]

Hi.  I like pancakes.

I'm a waffle man.

A good waffle iron is a wonder, but at the altitude I live at means that a fluffy pancake is great.

But enough of this, how about that Wyoming basketball team?

[Tonitrus]

Hi.  I like pancakes.

I'm a waffle man.

I love both in their own way. 

[jimmy olsen]

Don't you go a-screechin' boy. 

If Person A doesn't want to work more than 40 hours a week, and Person B wants to work 60, and The Firm wants people to work infinity hours a week, Person B has a competitive advantage over Persona A, unless Person A hides his distaste and agrees to work 60 hours a week.  The labor supply of people willing to work 60 hours a week just doubled.  IT'S LIKE MAGIC.

I really have no idea how this relates to our discussion.

You asked how the labor supply increases, seems like a pretty basic explanation how that works.

[LaCroix]

Working nights and weekends puts people out of synch with the rest of society. Yes it is needed for some professions, and yes everyone is inconvenienced by not be able to do grocery shopping at 2 am on a Saturday night. The people that work those odd hours tend to be the more marginal workers, and this is a big burden for them when providing childcare, obtaining additional educational opportunities, etc.

what's "the rest of society"? for a 35 year old bartender who works five nights a week, those he associates with may not work steady 9-5 office jobs. and childcare and educational opportunities are difficult either way. that you prefer daytime hours doesn't mean everyone else prefers them, too. people choose to work graveyard shifts, so they know what they're getting into.

[Jacob]

Jacob, you've completely lost me.

Okay, I'll simplify.

1) I don't have a problem with late openings, weekend work etc by itself.

2) I think the free-market-independent-bargainers philosophy you espouse (in this case, to support extended opening hours in Europe) is completely bunk, and that it produces undesirable outcomes.

[alfred russel]

Working nights and weekends puts people out of synch with the rest of society. Yes it is needed for some professions, and yes everyone is inconvenienced by not be able to do grocery shopping at 2 am on a Saturday night. The people that work those odd hours tend to be the more marginal workers, and this is a big burden for them when providing childcare, obtaining additional educational opportunities, etc.

what's "the rest of society"? for a 35 year old bartender who works five nights a week, those he associates with may not work steady 9-5 office jobs. and childcare and educational opportunities are difficult either way. that you prefer daytime hours doesn't mean everyone else prefers them, too. people choose to work graveyard shifts, so they know what they're getting into.

Everyone gets a choice. The low skilled single mother working the occasional graveyard shift because it is the only job she can land may not have a practical choice, but at least she does theoretically?

FWIW, in Germany people do work graveyard shifts, and restaurants / bars are open nights and weekends. So even there your hypothetical person will still have a choice.

[Eddie Teach]

Hi.  I like pancakes.

[LaCroix]

Everyone gets a choice. The low skilled single mother working the occasional graveyard shift because it is the only job she can land may not have a practical choice, but at least she does theoretically?

a single mother whose only mcjob she can land is a graveyard shift, and there are absolutely no alternatives available for years on end? that's going to be an extreme scenario, and we shouldn't base laws on extreme scenarios.

[sbr]

Working nights and weekends puts people out of synch with the rest of society. Yes it is needed for some professions, and yes everyone is inconvenienced by not be able to do grocery shopping at 2 am on a Saturday night. The people that work those odd hours tend to be the more marginal workers, and this is a big burden for them when providing childcare, obtaining additional educational opportunities, etc.

Up to the point it starts creating unemployment or serious adverse economic impacts, I support the German system (though obviously living in the US system works better for someone like me that has a normal hour job anyway).

What the hell does that mean?

[Tonitrus]

It means that he thinks he is better than us.  Time for him to go to the wall. 

[Jacob]

Working nights and weekends puts people out of synch with the rest of society. Yes it is needed for some professions, and yes everyone is inconvenienced by not be able to do grocery shopping at 2 am on a Saturday night. The people that work those odd hours tend to be the more marginal workers, and this is a big burden for them when providing childcare, obtaining additional educational opportunities, etc.

Up to the point it starts creating unemployment or serious adverse economic impacts, I support the German system (though obviously living in the US system works better for someone like me that has a normal hour job anyway).

What the hell does that mean?

I think what AR means is that people who work the shittiest shifts are often the ones who are already having a shitty time of it. They are not taking those jobs because they prefer the timeframe or get better pay, but because they are desperate (i.e. they don't have another choice); furthermore, AR posits that the impact of the shitty shifts is harder on them because of they lack of various resources.

[LaCroix]

I think what AR means is that people who work the shittiest shifts are often the ones who are already having a shitty time of it. They are not taking those jobs because they prefer the timeframe or get better pay, but because they are desperate (i.e. they don't have another choice); furthermore, AR posits that the impact of the shitty shifts is harder on them because of they lack of various resources.

having worked graveyard shifts in the past, i don't think this holds true for the majority.

[Jacob]

having worked graveyard shifts in the past, i don't think this holds true for the majority.

I have no opinion on that.