The Labor Pains Megathread

[Tamas]

Translation from Magyar: I come from a corrupt country, therefore all countries are corrupt.

So America isn't a slave to big business now all of a sudden? Your anti-establishment (which is more like a desire to be part of the establishment) goes only until it bumps into the chance to dismiss views based on the nationality of the one expressing them.

[Ideologue]

It is, but that doesn't mean that all efforts toward a rationally planned economy are misguided.

Plus, your experience of Hungary isn't of communism, bur 1)Russian imperialism and 2)prikhvatizatsiya, or however the Russian term goes.  Communism can be implemented in a former liberal democracy, or, at least, you must admit it's never been tried.

That said, I'm sorry. I was being a dick, and your buried point about regulatory/legislative capture is hardly frivolous on reconsideration.

[CountDeMoney]

Plus, your experience of Hungary isn't of communism, bur 1)Russian imperialism and 2)prikhvatizatsiya, or however the Russian term goes.

Beetvatizatsiya.

[derspiess]

Plus, your experience of Hungary isn't of communism, bur 1)Russian imperialism and 2)prikhvatizatsiya, or however the Russian term goes.

Beetvatizatsiya.

I think I had that at a Polish restaurant in Chicago.  It was on the relish tray.

[derspiess]

Translation from Magyar: I come from a corrupt country, therefore all countries are corrupt.

Kind of like Brits assuming that we have the same adversarial relationship with corrupt brewers and bar owners, who are trying to cheat us on the amount of beer we are sold.  Bizarre that they expect that to be the case everywhere.

[Sheilbh]

Translation from Magyar: I come from a corrupt country, therefore all countries are corrupt.

Kind of like Brits assuming that we have the same adversarial relationship with corrupt brewers and bar owners, who are trying to cheat us on the amount of beer we are sold.  Bizarre that they expect that to be the case everywhere.

Que?

Although you'll be glad to hear that the government suffered their first defeat (on which they hadn't suspended collective responsibility) a couple of weeks ago. The defeat was a glorious liberation of pub landlords from the yokes of their owners

[derspiess]

Que?

I've tried to explain that we don't have any of that problem here and Brits responded that I must be naive because it has to happen everywhere.

Although you'll be glad to hear that the government suffered their first defeat (on which they hadn't suspended collective responsibility) a couple of weeks ago. The defeat was a glorious liberation of pub landlords from the yokes of their owners

No idea what any of that means. 

[CountDeMoney]

   Separated by a common language.

[Syt]

With few exceptions (police, fire departments, hospitals ...) working on Sundays is not permitted in Germany. The states are permitted to add more exceptions if required to maintain a certain level of infrastructure that's indispensable.

Hessen's law in that regard has now been cancelled by a federal court. The court finds that video stores, libraries, and customer service hotlines are not worthy of exemption. Also not permitted: working production plants for beverages or ice cream on Sundays.

This will have repercussions for similar laws in other German states.

[CountDeMoney]

Well, as long as they cover up the rapes and similar, I guess they figure it's okay. Apparently the University of Virginia are having a few issues right now:

UVA isn't in the Ivy League, but it might as well be.  The sense of entitlement is stifling.

[MadImmortalMan]

With few exceptions (police, fire departments, hospitals ...) working on Sundays is not permitted in Germany. The states are permitted to add more exceptions if required to maintain a certain level of infrastructure that's indispensable.

Hessen's law in that regard has now been cancelled by a federal court. The court finds that video stores, libraries, and customer service hotlines are not worthy of exemption. Also not permitted: working production plants for beverages or ice cream on Sundays.

This will have repercussions for similar laws in other German states.

Why? Is it a religious thing? It's also annoying when European cities all but shut down at 7pm. Coming from Nevada, that's a significant dent in the routine.

[The Brain]

It's a Nazi thing.

[Syt]

Officially religious, yes. Also, many shops will close earlier on Saturdays than during the week. When I was a kid, shops closed as early as noon on Saturdays. And, in our town, often for an hour or two over lunch time on week days, too. The discussion of whether there should be more relaxation of opening hours (favored by businesses) or preservation of weekend/Sunday rest (unions & churches) is ongoing, and has been for decades.

Many cities will have "Open Sundays" now, where shops are permitted to be open (in my home state, I think it's up to 4 times).

Obviously, in big cities it will be better, where malls might be open for longer during the week, or supermarkets at main train stations are open on Sundays.

It seriously sucks, though, if you want to do some leisurely shopping outside your own work hours, and then either have to do it in an hour or two after work, or on Saturday when EVERYONE goes.

[Ideologue]

Ugh.  Looks like Germany needs more cleansing fire.

[Sheilbh]

Why? Is it a religious thing? It's also annoying when European cities all but shut down at 7pm. Coming from Nevada, that's a significant dent in the routine.

I take it you've never been to Spain, Italy or, God help you, Cardiff?

Ugh.  Looks like Germany needs more cleansing fire.

Service workers should have rights too

No idea what any of that means.

What you described is Britain in the 70s. Thatcher liberalised (and destroyed) the pubs. She limited the number of pubs a brewery could own to 2000 and required them to allow landlords to sell guest beers. The idea was it'd lead to a more free, competitive market.

Trouble is as the breweries had to sell off their thousands of pubs all at once the people who really took advantage were non-brewery firms, largely property firms, that got a lot of capital together. These pub companies get landlords in on the common English dream of having your own pub, but their contracts are incredibly restrictive. There's no limit on what beers you can sell, but you have to buy them from the PubCo (and they have gadgets to make sure the sales correlate with the beers they've sold). It's a world of managers and marketing teams not the old one of brewers and landlords. Some of it's good - I like Spoons as much as the next man - but it has, I think, contributed to the closing of pubs (PubCo pubs close at three times the rate of independent ones) and they're just more bland than the independent or brewery pubs. There are many decent pubs that are independent that have been reopened in the shell of a PubCo one, over 50% of pub 'landlords' for these companies have an income of £10 000 or lower, which is less than the minimum wage.

Recently the government was passing a Small Business Act. This was a government piece of legislation - so they should be able to pass it - and it hadn't been the cause of big coalition arguments so the cabinet were agreed. Collective responsibility was held Tory and Liberal ministers in the Commons would have to vote on it and both parties were expected to whip it. Lib Dem MP Greg Mulholland, with a little support from enthusiasts like CAMRA, got an amendment tabled to be voted on - against the Lib Dem, Tory wishes and PubCo lobbying. The amendment is the market rent only option which allows tied landlords when their contract is up for negotiation, there's change of terms, a new tenancy agreement or anything else like that, with any PubCo with more than 500 pubs to request an independent valuation of their market rent if they were allowed to buy their products anywhere (the rent's normally pretty low as the PubCo companies which purchase the products incredibly cheaply due to the size, don't have to pass that saving onto their landlords).

Mulholland managed to get his amendment passed. Labour voted for it and a significant number of Lib Dems and Tories rebelled - the first government defeat that shouldn't have happened. The government's since confirmed they'll accept the amendment and not attempt to change it back

So the future should include freer, better off landlords, more diverse ownership and cheaper, better beer and every Englishman can dream once again of retiring to own a country pub somewhere