Making better humans, or rather, making less-bad ones

[Martinus]

What would be the opposite of a Ball of Light?

Cube of Darkness?

[Razgovory]

I wonder if homosexuality would be considered an undesirable element as homosexuals are on average more likely to be depressed and suffer STDs.

We've already had this conversation before. For both, it is hard to parse out what is intrinsic to homosexuality itself and what stems from societal pressures placed on homosexuals.

I can't believe anyone still falls for Raz's trolling.

No troll, but the cult of gay pride refuses to acknowledge that it's possible the condition of homosexuality has certain medical downsides and instead take the somewhat belligerent attitude of, "Well that's every one else's problem, not mine!".  Which is sort of like the black power movement blaming sickle cell anemia on racism.  I am simply suggesting that if homosexuality is prenatal then it is logical it should be able to be detected in the womb.  If that's true, then someone will find a way to alter sexuality before a person is born.  In such a situation, medical ethics would demand a parent be informed of that choice.  Since statistically parents are more likely to be straight then gay, even higher then the ratio of straights to gays in the general population the number of gay children being born is likely to decrease dramatically.  There is little reason for a straight parent to chose a sexuality for their child that different then their own, and is lots of reasons not to do so.

[garbon]

I wonder if homosexuality would be considered an undesirable element as homosexuals are on average more likely to be depressed and suffer STDs.

We've already had this conversation before. For both, it is hard to parse out what is intrinsic to homosexuality itself and what stems from societal pressures placed on homosexuals.

I can't believe anyone still falls for Raz's trolling.

No troll, but the cult of gay pride refuses to acknowledge that it's possible the condition of homosexuality has certain medical downsides and instead take the somewhat belligerent attitude of, "Well that's every one else's problem, not mine!".  Which is sort of like the black power movement blaming sickle cell anemia on racism.  I am simply suggesting that if homosexuality is prenatal then it is logical it should be able to be detected in the womb.  If that's true, then someone will find a way to alter sexuality before a person is born.  In such a situation, medical ethics would demand a parent be informed of that choice.  Since statistically parents are more likely to be straight then gay, even higher then the ratio of straights to gays in the general population the number of gay children being born is likely to decrease dramatically.  There is little reason for a straight parent to chose a sexuality for their child that different then their own, and is lots of reasons not to do so.

I see your point, Marti, and my apologies.

[Malthus]

The problem with the notion of eugenics is that the public has always been motivated by current fads and moral panics, not by notions of impersonal, objective science like the progenitors of eugenics expected. There is no guarantee that any eugenics rules established would actually prove beneficial for humanity, rather than simply reflecting the transitory desires of the people who happen to have caught the mood of the moment when the rules are put in place.

[viper37]

Responses related to my sad-sackery can be directed to me elsewhere.  I know I have no place in any better world.
[...]
Oh, and I suppose it would increase government spending.  Feel free to also discuss aborting shitty babies in a private context, without federal funding.

Curing genetic diseases, I'm ok with it.
Deciding a baby's eyes color while in the womb, giving him 6 fingers, increased intelligence, muscle coordination, etc, I'd be against it.

[CountDeMoney]

What would be the opposite of a Ball of Light?

Scrotum of Freedom and Liberty.

[Syt]

Considering the names some parents blight their children with, I'm strongly opposed to any kind of eugenics program, public or private.

[Jacob]

I'm not.  I'm really angry at Jake for ignoring the very first thing I said (and probably failing to read any of it) and thereby being a pompous, disingenuous shit.  I want to say mean(er) things back, but I won't.

But since he brought it up: if I'm such a big joke, why should I have been born, Jake?  If I can't manage my life, and you're right, why should I have been given existence when another combination would have been happier?  You don't have an answer, other than platitudes.

Sorry for the negativity.

Sorry... was in a pissy mood when I posted that.

My point is that it's very difficult to distinguish between how you articulate the negativity you feel about your own life and how you articulate your arguments for eugenics, so the eugenics thing really comes across as an extension of your current self-loathing. Also, I'm really unfond of eugenics.

For what it's worth, I think you're managing your life fine other than the apparently fundamental unhappiness.

[Tamas]

If you can't even figure out how to manage your own life, you sure as fuck shouldn't be making plans about how to run the species. So yeah, take your eugenics and shove 'em.

progressive income tax is stupid

[Tamas]

If you can't even figure out how to manage your own life, you sure as fuck shouldn't be making plans about how to run the species. So yeah, take your eugenics and shove 'em.

Where do you get the idea that Ide can't manage his life from?  Because he doesn't meet your standards of success?  Because he has to struggle and scrape to get by?

Fuck you, you arbitrary cunt.  Where you get of judging some kid trapped in one of the worst places in the western world, I don't know.

[CountDeMoney]

For what it's worth, I think you're managing your life fine other than the apparently fundamental unhappiness.

I don't.  Dummy's buying too many fucking Blu-Rays for movies he'll never watch again, and not socking it away for the inevitable downsizing/layoff/shareholder value/"we're flattening the organization"/unemployment.

[Jacob]

However, I've been trying to figure out why Jacob gets bent out of shape about, like, practically every idea I've had in the last several years, even though we share many of the same general goals for society.  I think it's because Jake is a for-real liberal humanist, which is nice and not really evil or anything, but it is in contrast to what I stand for, which is an significantly less liberal leftism that recognizes (or, at least, supposes) a general badness in humanity that needs to be either countered or improved in order for society to really get well.  I'm a splitter, Jacob can sometimes come off as offering nothing but platitudes in the face of terrible and ongoing harms, though I know he doesn't mean to and he has a good heart, like most everybody here.

I think he also fears that I'll go, like, full Nazi or something.  I appreciate that he has concern for my soul, but it's not necessary.

It's a good question. I think you manage to push my buttons because:

a) I take what you say at face value rather than as trolling;

b) Because you like to take on ideas that have been progressive at one point or another, but at the same time, in my view, have a historical record of causing real and serious misery (like eugenics);

c) Your penchant for grand sweeping statements and idiosyncratic positions reminds me of myself in earlier days, and I think it's pretty normal to swerve between annoyance and indulgence at someone engaging what you perceive as your own mistakes of the past.

[Jacob]

Where do you get the idea that Ide can't manage his life from?

His own constant pissing and moaning? 

Like I said, objectively speaking I think Ide is doing fine if he was less hard on himself.

Because he doesn't meet your standards of success?  Because he has to struggle and scrape to get by?

Fuck you, you arbitrary cunt.  Where you get of judging some kid trapped in one of the worst places in the western world, I don't know.

And fuck you too you pretentious contrarian trollkin

[Jacob]

Was it addressed at Ide or Raz?

No comment.

[dps]

Responses related to my sad-sackery can be directed to me elsewhere.  I know I have no place in any better world.
[...]
Oh, and I suppose it would increase government spending.  Feel free to also discuss aborting shitty babies in a private context, without federal funding.

Curing genetic diseases, I'm ok with it.

But then you get into the debate over what exactly constitutes a genetic disease or defect.  Raz seems to argue that homosexuality is a genetic defect, whereas in fact we don't even know for certain that it's genetic at all.  And further up the thread, Ide postulated that empathy is determined by genetics.