Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

Started by Josquius, February 20, 2016, 07:46:34 AM

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How would you vote on Britain remaining in the EU?

British- Remain
12 (12%)
British - Leave
7 (7%)
Other European - Remain
21 (21%)
Other European - Leave
6 (6%)
ROTW - Remain
34 (34%)
ROTW - Leave
20 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 98

Valmy

Putin has been in power since the 1990s, he will only be removed from office by the sweet release of death. Probably to be replaced by somebody just as bad.

As for Trump...well we thought we had gotten rid of him in 2021. No telling how often the far right will come back into power in the US in the decades to come.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Zanza

I think their idea is that they don't have to come back, but that they stay in power perpetually.

Josquius

Quote from: Valmy on February 26, 2025, 09:51:28 AMPutin has been in power since the 1990s, he will only be removed from office by the sweet release of death. Probably to be replaced by somebody just as bad.

As for Trump...well we thought we had gotten rid of him in 2021. No telling how often the far right will come back into power in the US in the decades to come.

Or a fragmented bunch of warlords.
But with Trump bending over for Putin these days thats looking less likely.
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Sheilbh

I know we're not linking there but it's Zelensky's account so I will - but in Downing Street today. The Euro-summit in Paris before European diplomacy with Trump and London after it:
https://x.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1895941753594638682

I think the start of the video is the important bit. There were crowds to welcome Zelensky after what happened in DC - I think that was largely spontaneous of people wanting to turn up in the last day or two. All the polling shows strong (almost unanimous) support for Ukraine which I think is relevant for the wider stuff we're talking about on European defence and what I mean about leaders needing to lead. I think the public is ready for someone to say that, regrettably, because of the situation in Europe we need to spend significantly more on defence and in support of Ukraine - which means that Labour election pledge to not raise taxes will have to be broken (or spending cuts/we can do less elsewhere).

Especially because Rachel Reeves has started doing some good stuff here but this "rearmament bank" plan might be a good idea. But I don't think we can financially engineer our ways out of this situation - or should be trying to because of self imposed fiscal/debt rules (at least Germany's are constitutional). We've invented states which are incredibly powerful tools exactly for this sort of occasion and need to start using them:
QuoteAs well as her announcements on the National Wealth Fund and release of cash linked to Russian assets, Reeves has instructed officials to develop proposals for a new funding mechanism that could allow countries to increase spending on defence equipment without breaching debt rules.

Two of Britain's most senior retired generals are backing rival plans to create a new £100 billion bank for European defence spending.

General Sir Nick Carter, the former head of the armed forces, is behind one proposal to establish a "rearmament bank". It would be limited to European banks and defence firms in an attempt to create the "strategic autonomy" sought by some leaders, including President Macron of France.

A rival proposal for a £100 billion Defence, Security and Resilience (DSR) Bank — backed by Lord Peach, former chief of the UK Defence Staff and chair of Nato's military committee — is seeking support in both Europe and the United States.

Starmer and John Healey, the defence secretary, were briefed on plans for the DSR bank last month in Downing Street. It has also won widespread international support from other Western defence chiefs.
Let's bomb Russia!

mongers

Downing Street. Badenknock and Farage presenting a 'united front' on backing Ukraine vs Trump; I wonder how long that will last.
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

PJL

I also agree with the Daily Mail saying Trump's state visit shouldn't go ahead. That's about the second time in a week that I've agreed with the Daily Mail. What strange times we are living in.

Richard Hakluyt

Electoral suicide to side with the Trump regime against Ukraine. I'm so glad that my fellow citizens are clear on this.

Sheilbh

I agree.

I've said it before about Europe but it is something I find frustrating about our political leaders in recent years. Across Europe there has been very, very strong support for Ukraine - but in very few countries have political leaders linked that support to a case to doing things differently (increasing defence spending, increasing capacity in order to support Ukraine etc).

Public opinion is on-side but many of our political leaders have just been very timid or passive. I think often things are framed around politicians know what the "right" thing to do is but the challenge is keeping the public supportive - I think Ukraine is the opposite and should maybe make us question our assumptions on where the blockages/challenges in our system are.

Having said all that I think cancelling the state visit would be a big mistake. That's not the right approach. Especially as reports that Ukraine, France and the UK are going to work on a joint European peace proposal - so I think Ukraine is still depending on us and France to do the working with the US bit (I imagine that need has increased since Zelensky's trip to DC).
Let's bomb Russia!

Richard Hakluyt

Yes, I think Starmer is doing well in very difficult circumstances. I guess being a highly experienced lawyer is coming in useful.

fromtia

Yeah have to agree, Starmer seems to be doing the international relations clusterfuck pretty well.
"Just be nice" - James Dalton, Roadhouse.

Sheilbh

I agree on the diplomacy - I think Starmer and Macron have been handling it about as well as is possible.

My criticism with Starmer would be that on defence and actually spending and increasing industrial capacity, I still don't think he's met the moment (but I am willing to suggest, once again, that maybe the real problem is HM Treasury <_<).
Let's bomb Russia!

mongers

One solution to the problem is if current affairs follow the final chapters of my nascent airport pulp blockbuster; a terminally ill King Charles smuggles a small pistol in to Buck.Pal and during the state visit assassinates Trump on greeting him.   :bowler:
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Jacob

Oh man, the fallout from such an event would be something to behold.

Josquius

I firmly subscribe to the killing Hitler during ww2 would be a mistake line of thought here.

Trump has some special appeal to idiots about him that meant only he could have come to power on this psychotic platform.

But now the maga cult has power far better an incompetent twit like him than a far more focussed evil like vance.
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Sheilbh

Word cloud from a pollster of people's opinions on the Oval Office meeting. "Behaviour" :lol:
Let's bomb Russia!