What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[The Minsky Moment]

OK.

Removing birthright citizenship does not mean citizens get deported.

It does mean that existing citizens would lose their citizenship.  And then get deported. 

That's not very reassuring.

I watched the clip.  He said "going forward."

Christ, I'm on chipwich's side.

.

It doesn't matter what he says, it matters what the law says.

If he published in EO authorizing the seizure and detention of Gitmo of the entire democratkc congressional delegation, but then gave a speech saying he was giving them cookies and ice cream, that's ok? He said cookies and ice cream

What you are missing is that there are two part's to the order.  Part one strips citizenship.  Part 2 is about deportation. Part 2 only applies to future children. But part 1 is not limited.  And once citizenship is gone they are subject to deportation at any time. An EO is mot required

[The Minsky Moment]

Next you'll tell me the Patriot Act was about patriots.  It's what the title says, what more do you need to know?

[Admiral Yi]

OK.

Removing birthright citizenship does not mean citizens get deported.

It does mean that existing citizens would lose their citizenship.  And then get deported. 

That's not very reassuring.

I watched the clip.  He said "going forward."

Christ, I'm on chipwich's side.

.

It doesn't matter what he says, it matters what the law says.

If he published in EO authorizing the seizure and detention of Gitmo of the entire democratkc congressional delegation, but then gave a speech saying he was giving them cookies and ice cream, that's ok? He said cookies and ice cream

What you are missing is that there are two part's to the order.  Part one strips citizenship.  Part 2 is about deportation. Part 2 only applies to future children. But part 1 is not limited.  And once citizenship is gone they are subject to deportation at any time. An EO is mot required

I rewatched it to make sure I hadn't missed something.  I still hear the same thing.  Going forward children of illegal immigrants will not be granted citizenship.

[chipwich]

I'm not fighting anyone, I'm doing what I usually do in my day job.  Reading a legal text and explaining what it means and what its legal effect is.  No one drafts an EO intending for the Courts to reject it.  They draft it intending for the Courts to uphold it.  If the courts upheld this EO, it would strip many existing US citizens of their citizenship. They would lose all rights of citizenship and their right to stay would depend on the goodwill and sufferance of the administration of the day.

To start with that is a press release and not an executive order. You must be pretty shit at your day job of reading legal text if you can't tell the difference.

[crazy canuck]

After reading that last few pages, I am understanding better why Trump won.

[The Minsky Moment]

The first thing he says is that birthright citizenship is a "historical myth" and based on an erroneous interpretation. That is what the first part of the order says. There is no limitation on timing.

But I hesitate to say that because it gives credence to the idea that what Trump SAYS in a speech matter as opposed to what is written in the legal text.  It assumes that Trump has a clear and precise understanding what his EO does and that he is reporting its effect in its entirety with scrupulous accuracy and honesty.  Both of which are absurd assumptions

[Crazy_Ivan80]

OK.

Removing birthright citizenship does not mean citizens get deported.

It does mean that existing citizens would lose their citizenship.  And then get deported. 

That's not very reassuring.

I watched the clip.  He said "going forward."

Christ, I'm on chipwich's side.

.

It doesn't matter what he says, it matters what the law says.

If he published in EO authorizing the seizure and detention of Gitmo of the entire democratkc congressional delegation, but then gave a speech saying he was giving them cookies and ice cream, that's ok? He said cookies and ice cream

What you are missing is that there are two part's to the order.  Part one strips citizenship.  Part 2 is about deportation. Part 2 only applies to future children. But part 1 is not limited.  And once citizenship is gone they are subject to deportation at any time. An EO is mot required

I rewatched it to make sure I hadn't missed something.  I still hear the same thing.  Going forward children of illegal immigrants will not be granted citizenship.

if I understood correctly Minsky is saying that what Trump said is basically irrelevant: the only thing that's relevant is what's on the paper that gets signed. That wording matters because that is what'll be used.

[The Minsky Moment]

I'm not fighting anyone, I'm doing what I usually do in my day job.  Reading a legal text and explaining what it means and what its legal effect is.  No one drafts an EO intending for the Courts to reject it.  They draft it intending for the Courts to uphold it.  If the courts upheld this EO, it would strip many existing US citizens of their citizenship. They would lose all rights of citizenship and their right to stay would depend on the goodwill and sufferance of the administration of the day.

To start with that is a press release and not an executive order. You must be pretty shit at your day job of reading legal text if you can't tell the difference.

It's a press release that describes the content of a proposed EO.  Did you not see that?  Or are we supposed to read that as a kind of dada political performance art?

[chipwich]

It DESCRIBES a potential future executive order. It is not a legal primary source you fucking idiot.

[DGuller]

Aren't there some international laws(?) against making people stateless?

[The Minsky Moment]

It DESCRIBES a potential future executive order. It is not a legal primary source you fucking idiot.

It describes an executive order that Trump INTENDS to sign if elected and now he has been elected.

An order that if signed with the content described and upheld by the courts would have the effect of stripping a class of existing citizens of their citizenship.

It's so simple even a fucking idiot like me can understand

[The Minsky Moment]

Aren't there some international laws(?) against making people stateless?

Oh thank God we're safe, surely a Trump admin would never do anything contrary to international law

[chipwich]

Is it a legal primary source or not Mr. legal documents reader?

[Grey Fox]

That's a lot of copium, Chip.

[crazy canuck]

Aren't there some international laws(?) against making people stateless?

Oh thank God we're safe, surely a Trump admin would never do anything contrary to international law