[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Admiral Yi]

Is transportation  and driving more of a private or public good, going back to the original bad metaphor?

I guess it just boiling down to how one views education. Whether it's a good for society in general or the kid in specific.

Transportation is a private good with negative externalities (pollution and congestion) and a welfare component (poor people need tranpo too).

[Barrister]

But why don't they give me that money back I paid in tax and I can use it for my own education?

I would use it on hookers and blow.  Type up the petition, I'll sign it.

Actually I won't.  Education is an intergenerational transfer.  Older people always pay for younger people's education.  If you pay back the cost of your own education first then you would have more moral standing to not pay for this generation's.

People without kids pay a lot of tranfers to others.  Child care credits for example.  Welcome to the Log Cabin Republicans.

Education has both a public and private component.

As a society we have an obvious interest in making sure everyone has a set level of education.  We want people to be able to read, to do math, have a basic knowledge of our history and culture, that kind of thing.  That helps ensure the next generation is well-equipped to be able to work at well-paying jobs and thus pay taxes which will help fund the previous generation's retirement.

But it's also a private good in that the individual kid also gains from getting an education.  The benefit also switches to more private / less public the more education you get.  I mean - the public doesn't get any real benefit from the fact my kid goes to a hockey-centric school.

[Jacob]

why is schooling the outlier? Canadas army is weak, just give me my money and I'll buy some rocket launchers. Or stop funding the navy, I have moxy and a inner tube floatie

 

I like your moxy!

[Admiral Yi]

Education has both a public and private component.

As a society we have an obvious interest in making sure everyone has a set level of education.  We want people to be able to read, to do math, have a basic knowledge of our history and culture, that kind of thing.  That helps ensure the next generation is well-equipped to be able to work at well-paying jobs and thus pay taxes which will help fund the previous generation's retirement.

Sure.  I'm familiar with the argument and it has some merit.  But every good or service that we think of as purely private also has an externality component.  I eat, and you don't have to clean my decomposing corpse up off the street.  I paint my house, and your property value goes up.  You buy an XBox, and I don't have to deal with a cranky and stressed Albertan prosecutor.

[Jacob]

You buy an XBox, and I don't have to deal with a cranky and stressed Albertan prosecutor.

That's what go-fund-me was invented for.

[Sheilbh]

Sure.  I'm familiar with the argument and it has some merit.  But every good or service that we think of as purely private also has an externality component.  I eat, and you don't have to clean my decomposing corpse up off the street.  I paint my house, and your property value goes up.  You buy an XBox, and I don't have to deal with a cranky and stressed Albertan prosecutor.

I think that's where ideology and belief comes in. You can make arguments either way for lots of things - healthcare, education, the arts, sport. There's no right or wrong just whether you think they should be public or private goods primarily/by default. Obviously I am on the public goods side

But it's ultimately just decided by elections.

[Barrister]

I have to admit I expected more outrage at the Danielle Smith-Tucker Carlson meet-up, and not a debate on school vouchers.

[Admiral Yi]

Boring, pedantic little lecture on private/public goods vs. positive and negative externalities.

When a private good is produced the benefits of consumption all go to one individual.  A public good is produced and the benefits go to everyone.  In fact it's impossible to prevent anyone from benefiting from a public good.  The classic example is the military.  The problem is if left to the market no one will ever produce national defense, which is suboptimal.  Pollution mitigation is a public good.

Externalities are like leakages of benefits or costs.  You drive your car to work--private benefit.  I bear some of the cost in terms of pollution and congestion.  Like Beeb said, I get educated I get smarter and you get some benefit from me being smarter.

As you can see there is some overlap.

[Admiral Yi]

I think that's where ideology and belief comes in. You can make arguments either way for lots of things - healthcare, education, the arts, sport. There's no right or wrong just whether you think they should be public or private goods primarily/by default. Obviously I am on the public goods side

But it's ultimately just decided by elections.

Sure, and norms about responsibilities.  If I paint my house, should you chip in because you reap some benefit, or just think I'm a lowlife if I don't?

[HVC]

I have to admit I expected more outrage at the Danielle Smith-Tucker Carlson meet-up, and not a debate on school vouchers.

Her being dumb/morally wrong is expected.

[HVC]

why is schooling the outlier? Canadas army is weak, just give me my money and I'll buy some rocket launchers. Or stop funding the navy, I have moxy and a inner tube floatie

 

I like your moxy!

someone finally gets me

[HVC]

Boring, pedantic little lecture on private/public goods vs. positive and negative externalities.

When a private good is produced the benefits of consumption all go to one individual.  A public good is produced and the benefits go to everyone.  In fact it's impossible to prevent anyone from benefiting from a public good.  The classic example is the military.  The problem is if left to the market no one will ever produce national defense, which is suboptimal.  Pollution mitigation is a public good.

Externalities are like leakages of benefits or costs.  You drive your car to work--private benefit.  I bear some of the cost in terms of pollution and congestion.  Like Beeb said, I get educated I get smarter and you get some benefit from me being smarter.

As you can see there is some overlap.

What about the negati e externalities of subpar education, misinformed populace and wacky religious people? Because that's how you get Mormons

[Admiral Yi]

What about the negati e externalities of subpar education, misinformed populace and wacky religious people? Because that's how you get Mormons

Then you get back to Shelf's point about vote for the ones you like and vote against you ones you don't.

[HVC]

What about the negati e externalities of subpar education, misinformed populace and wacky religious people? Because that's how you get Mormons

Then you get back to Shelf's point about vote for the ones you like and vote against you ones you don't.

Does that still count if people are choosing their schools because of the negative externalities rather than dispite them?

[Barrister]

What about the negati e externalities of subpar education, misinformed populace and wacky religious people? Because that's how you get Mormons

I'm kind of negative on the Mormon faith, but they're pretty big on education.