[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Grey Fox]

I am glad you read the article.  What did you think about the analysis that we have been allowing the wrong people with the wrong incentives?

Sanctimonious bullshit from Mr. Yakabuski. Oh, now their the wrong kind of immigrants. It wasn't a problem when it was hurting Quebec culture.

[viper37]

I am glad you read the article.  What did you think about the analysis that we have been allowing the wrong people with the wrong incentives?

It's been known for a while.  Quebec has tried various ways to find the right immigrants for the right jobs we need by selecting its own economic immigrants.

It's a complaint I've heard a lot from other Canadians about immigrants being selected for low paying jobs, especially in Western Canada (the Prairies).  I don't know up to what point it is true.  I suppose with past oil boom all the local skilled workers left for this sector and the Tim Horton's of this world had to face a huge shortage, even at 18-20$/hr?

It's not something I see in my neck of the wood, but it's something I hear about Montreal.

But like GF said, we've been telling you for years we don't get the right kind of immigrants, and our society is anglicizing itself due to immigration.

As for incentives, well, everything I've heard from migrants so far, it's been nightmarish going through the process.  Even if they find a job, it's extremely difficult.  And if they don't like the job, or they find a bad employer and they want to change, they may face deportation, even if they want to work and find themselves another good employer.  Papers from the Federal government never seem to arrive.  Then the Quebec government needs the document from the Feds to proceed, and Canada Immigration will deport them if they don't have their work documents from Quebec...

As for family reunions, it's a subject that has been approached by our Premier in the past, and I believe he was called a racist for that, at least by his Quebec opponents.  But that's to be expected, whenever you touch the subject.

A lot of people have criticized the benefits of immigration for work shortage, due to the other demands they create: even if you bring in a qualified nurse, that person will require other services, so it creates demand elsewhere.  Once that person has kids, it creates a needs for kindergarden educators, teachers, doctors, other nurses, etc.

[crazy canuck]

I am glad you read the article.  What did you think about the analysis that we have been allowing the wrong people with the wrong incentives?

Sanctimonious bullshit from Mr. Yakabuski. Oh, now their the wrong kind of immigrants. It wasn't a problem when it was hurting Quebec culture.

Did you read the article or just my post and then make a bunch of assumptions?

He addresses the issue in Quebec as part of his historical analysis of what went wrong.

[Josquius]

As for incentives, well, everything I've heard from migrants so far, it's been nightmarish going through the process.  Even if they find a job, it's extremely difficult.  And if they don't like the job, or they find a bad employer and they want to change, they may face deportation, even if they want to work and find themselves another good employer.  Papers from the Federal government never seem to arrive.  Then the Quebec government needs the document from the Feds to proceed, and Canada Immigration will deport them if they don't have their work documents from Quebec...

This sounds familiar.
I know a woman who experienced this (Scottish though has an EU passport and French speaking. Had previously spent years living in France and Switzerland.)
Emigrated to Canada as a skilled worker, but turned out the job opportunity she went there for wasn't all that. Couldn't find another job mostly due to her visa status putting employers off.
Since she's European she ended up deciding 'fuck that' and taking a job in France instead. I imagine for folk from the sub-continent and elsewhere its a far more painful situation,.

Plus I know several in the UK facing it here 

[crazy canuck]

I am glad you read the article.  What did you think about the analysis that we have been allowing the wrong people with the wrong incentives?

It's been known for a while.  Quebec has tried various ways to find the right immigrants for the right jobs we need by selecting its own economic immigrants.

It's a complaint I've heard a lot from other Canadians about immigrants being selected for low paying jobs, especially in Western Canada (the Prairies).  I don't know up to what point it is true.  I suppose with past oil boom all the local skilled workers left for this sector and the Tim Horton's of this world had to face a huge shortage, even at 18-20$/hr?

It's not something I see in my neck of the wood, but it's something I hear about Montreal.

But like GF said, we've been telling you for years we don't get the right kind of immigrants, and our society is anglicizing itself due to immigration.

As for incentives, well, everything I've heard from migrants so far, it's been nightmarish going through the process.  Even if they find a job, it's extremely difficult.  And if they don't like the job, or they find a bad employer and they want to change, they may face deportation, even if they want to work and find themselves another good employer.  Papers from the Federal government never seem to arrive.  Then the Quebec government needs the document from the Feds to proceed, and Canada Immigration will deport them if they don't have their work documents from Quebec...

As for family reunions, it's a subject that has been approached by our Premier in the past, and I believe he was called a racist for that, at least by his Quebec opponents.  But that's to be expected, whenever you touch the subject.

A lot of people have criticized the benefits of immigration for work shortage, due to the other demands they create: even if you bring in a qualified nurse, that person will require other services, so it creates demand elsewhere.  Once that person has kids, it creates a needs for kindergarden educators, teachers, doctors, other nurses, etc.

I think the nurse example is one where the system would work.  The difficulty is for every nurse we also bring in their extended family.  So a policy that is supposed to make our population younger and better able to support our social programs ends up increasing the age of the population and the demand in social programs. Every young nurse has two parents near or at retirement.

I am not sure I accept all the arguments that are made.  I can see an argument for the benefits of family reunification.

But one thing seems clear- the stated policy objectives of the immigration plan were inconsistent with the design of the immigration system.

[Grey Fox]

I am glad you read the article.  What did you think about the analysis that we have been allowing the wrong people with the wrong incentives?

Sanctimonious bullshit from Mr. Yakabuski. Oh, now their the wrong kind of immigrants. It wasn't a problem when it was hurting Quebec culture.

Did you read the article or just my post and then make a bunch of assumptions?

He addresses the issue in Quebec as part of his historical analysis of what went wrong.

I read it, 

At least, I thought I did. It appears that I was befuddled by the ads and had read about 30% before thinking the ads cluster was the end. My bad.

 

[crazy canuck]

As for incentives, well, everything I've heard from migrants so far, it's been nightmarish going through the process.  Even if they find a job, it's extremely difficult.  And if they don't like the job, or they find a bad employer and they want to change, they may face deportation, even if they want to work and find themselves another good employer.  Papers from the Federal government never seem to arrive.  Then the Quebec government needs the document from the Feds to proceed, and Canada Immigration will deport them if they don't have their work documents from Quebec...

This sounds familiar.
I know a woman who experienced this (Scottish though has an EU passport and French speaking. Had previously spent years living in France and Switzerland.)
Emigrated to Canada as a skilled worker, but turned out the job opportunity she went there for wasn't all that. Couldn't find another job mostly due to her visa status putting employers off.
Since she's European she ended up deciding 'fuck that' and taking a job in France instead. I imagine for folk from the sub-continent and elsewhere its a far more painful situation,.

Plus I know several in the UK facing it here 

Recognition of foreign work experience and credentials is a big hurdle here. 

[crazy canuck]

I am glad you read the article.  What did you think about the analysis that we have been allowing the wrong people with the wrong incentives?

Sanctimonious bullshit from Mr. Yakabuski. Oh, now their the wrong kind of immigrants. It wasn't a problem when it was hurting Quebec culture.

Did you read the article or just my post and then make a bunch of assumptions?

He addresses the issue in Quebec as part of his historical analysis of what went wrong.

I read it, 

At least, I thought I did. It appears that I was befuddled by the ads and had read about 30% before thinking the ads cluster was the end. My bad.

 

Ok fair enough.  I didn't know the gifted link had adds.  Can you access the audio transcription through the gifted link?

[Grey Fox]

One day, we will need to address the fact that the federal government is bad at everything it tries to do. No matter which party is in government.

[Grey Fox]

I am glad you read the article.  What did you think about the analysis that we have been allowing the wrong people with the wrong incentives?

Sanctimonious bullshit from Mr. Yakabuski. Oh, now their the wrong kind of immigrants. It wasn't a problem when it was hurting Quebec culture.

Did you read the article or just my post and then make a bunch of assumptions?

He addresses the issue in Quebec as part of his historical analysis of what went wrong.

I read it, 

At least, I thought I did. It appears that I was befuddled by the ads and had read about 30% before thinking the ads cluster was the end. My bad.

 

Ok fair enough.  I didn't know the gifted link had adds.  Can you access the audio transcription through the gifted link?

There's an option, I would need an account to access it.

I had missed almost, if not, all of the historical analysis. 

A lot more interesting than my 1st impression.

[crazy canuck]

One day, we will need to address the fact that the federal government is bad at everything it tries to do. No matter which party is in government.

As a general rule, I agree.  But one exception that might prove the rule is the years of the Harper majority.  One might disagree with the policy choices, but at least they were considered and implemented as intended.

It is an interesting thought experiment to think about how different Canada would be now if he had won the 2015 election and Trudeau was consigned to the dustbin of history.

[Josephus]

I think the nurse example is one where the system would work.  The difficulty is for every nurse we also bring in their extended family.  So a policy that is supposed to make our population younger and better able to support our social programs ends up increasing the age of the population and the demand in social programs. Every young nurse has two parents near or at retirement.

Do we know that's the case? Most immigrants I know (including my own family, although that's more than 40 years ago), but most immigrants I know come here young (ie 30 something) with a kid or two in tow, but normally leave their aging parents behind. People who are at or close to retirement don't have the urgency to emigrate.

I think the scariest thing of that article was this:

At its current growth rate, Canada's population would double by 2048 and surpass the Century Initiative goal of 100 million Canadians well before the turn of the century. Instead of being a cause for celebration, such projections are a serious cause for concern that has even strong supporters of immigration calling for a time out.

Yes, I know JT is freezing immigration numbers, but still double population in 25 years is crazy. I'm not against immigration (for obvious reasons) but it certainly needs to be reformed.

[Barrister]

Do we know that's the case? Most immigrants I know (including my own family, although that's more than 40 years ago), but most immigrants I know come here young (ie 30 something) with a kid or two in tow, but normally leave their aging parents behind. People who are at or close to retirement don't have the urgency to emigrate.

I think the scariest thing of that article was this:

At its current growth rate, Canada's population would double by 2048 and surpass the Century Initiative goal of 100 million Canadians well before the turn of the century. Instead of being a cause for celebration, such projections are a serious cause for concern that has even strong supporters of immigration calling for a time out.

Yes, I know JT is freezing immigration numbers, but still double population in 25 years is crazy. I'm not against immigration (for obvious reasons) but it certainly needs to be reformed.

I'm the descendent of immigrants, and no serious voice in politics that I know of wants to halt immigration to Canada.

But doubling our population in 25 years is fairly insane.  What does that do to our social cohesion, the fact that a majority of people in our country weren't even born here?

And then not to mention the issue of housing and education.

Josephus, I don't have any statistics, but perhaps there is a difference in people emigrating from Malta or elsewhere in Europe, versus from India or China?  Anecdotally people from those countries definitely try to bring their own parents into Canada.

[Josephus]

Josephus, I don't have any statistics, but perhaps there is a difference in people emigrating from Malta or elsewhere in Europe, versus from India or China?  Anecdotally people from those countries definitely try to bring their own parents into Canada.

You know, Beeb, as I posted that I thought about that. I DO see a lot of elderly Chinese and Indians in my community. I think the old age security benefits in most of Europe are fine (probably better than ours) but for Chinese and Indians maybe not so much. I probably was thinking of European immigrants.

[crazy canuck]

I think the nurse example is one where the system would work.  The difficulty is for every nurse we also bring in their extended family.  So a policy that is supposed to make our population younger and better able to support our social programs ends up increasing the age of the population and the demand in social programs. Every young nurse has two parents near or at retirement.

Do we know that's the case? Most immigrants I know (including my own family, although that's more than 40 years ago), but most immigrants I know come here young (ie 30 something) with a kid or two in tow, but normally leave their aging parents behind. People who are at or close to retirement don't have the urgency to emigrate.

I think the scariest thing of that article was this:

At its current growth rate, Canada's population would double by 2048 and surpass the Century Initiative goal of 100 million Canadians well before the turn of the century. Instead of being a cause for celebration, such projections are a serious cause for concern that has even strong supporters of immigration calling for a time out.

Yes, I know JT is freezing immigration numbers, but still double population in 25 years is crazy. I'm not against immigration (for obvious reasons) but it certainly needs to be reformed.

Assuming nurses are similar to the other skilled entrants