The Off Topic Topic

[Habbaku]

But I think BB's point stands, pensions don't really make up for the wage lose, except in extreme examples.  Wages for politicians have fallen drastically in relative terms.  They used to be considered well paying positions. But a lot of countries adopted the view that politicians should not get raises.  And so their salaries are now well below what a competent person could earn elsewhere.

Although it'd be interesting - as in that EU chart - to see the comparison to the average salary (or, say, the lowest paid person in an organisation) because I think a significant part of that shift is wage inflation at the top in other sectors. I'd wonder if politicians' wages have fallen in real terms or tracked average wage growth/inflation.

At least in the USA, you can find inflation-adjusted, 2021 figures here for US Representatives:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salaries_of_members_of_the_United_States_Congress

[Sheilbh]

At least in the USA, you can find inflation-adjusted, 2021 figures here for US Representatives:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salaries_of_members_of_the_United_States_Congress

MPs are on about £85k:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salaries_of_members_of_the_United_Kingdom_Parliament

There's then supplements for people with formal positions - ministers, the Speaker, whips, select committee chairs etc. I think the most is the PM who gets an additional £80k.

[crazy canuck]

But I think BB's point stands, pensions don't really make up for the wage lose, except in extreme examples.  Wages for politicians have fallen drastically in relative terms.  They used to be considered well paying positions. But a lot of countries adopted the view that politicians should not get raises.  And so their salaries are now well below what a competent person could earn elsewhere.

Although it'd be interesting - as in that EU chart - to see the comparison to the average salary (or, say, the lowest paid person in an organisation) because I think a significant part of that shift is wage inflation at the top in other sectors. I'd wonder if politicians' wages have fallen in real terms or tracked average wage growth/inflation.

That's the wrong comparable though. Politician salaries used to be commensurate with higher wage earners. If you want people who are educated and good policymakers you shouldn't pay the same salary as somebody who stocks groceries shelves.

You might want to elect somebody who stocks grocery shelves but that's a separate issue. The wages that are currently paid to politicians select out for a fairly large group who would have to make significant financial sacrifices in their peak earning years.

[Sheilbh]

That's the wrong comparable though. Politician salaries used to be commensurate with higher wage earners. If you want people who are educated and good policymakers you shouldn't pay the same salary as somebody who stocks groceries shelves.

You might want to elect somebody who stocks grocery shelves but that's a separate issue. The wages that are currently paid to politicians select out for a fairly large group who would have to make significant financial sacrifices in their peak earning years.

To be clear £85k is a lot for a supermarket worker - but it is a significant payrise for the vast majority of people, including most public sector workers, working class people, trade unionists etc. Politicians are objectively high earners.

I think a bigger problem is that our parties have narrowed the access for the rest of society to politics not that high earners from the City or lawyers etc don't have the right financial incentives - I think we have enough of them and I think it's more a reflection of wider issues with that group.

[Jacob]

Liz Truss is getting £115,000 yearly from now on out, after resigning as prime minister. That's pretty decent, since she can still work - and is probably going to make decent money.

[Valmy]

There are ways to make 115K a year that don't involve being an international laughing stock.

[Sheilbh]

Liz Truss is getting £115,000 yearly from now on out, after resigning as prime minister. That's pretty decent, since she can still work - and is probably going to make decent money.

That's not true.

Ex-PMs can claim up to £115,000 per year after leaving office (the Public Duty Cost Allowance) but it's a reimbursement of incurred expenses such as office costs, secretarial costs etc if they want to set up an office post-premiership. It can't be used for constituency/parliamentary or private work and is subject to being signed off by the civil service and has to be for public interest work. Most claim close to the full amount - Theresa May doesn't. There are calls for Truss to not set up an office given her time in office was short and a disaster.

There's no special pension scheme for the PM. They're enrolled onto the MPs' pension scheme and the Ministerial pension scheme which reflect their two salaries. They only start paying out at the point of retirement - not when they leave office.

All ministers (including the PM) get a severance payment of one quarter of their annual salary. There's no salary for former PMs or ministers but it's for their last role so they don't get it if they're promoted (or if they die) - so in Truss' case she'll get a severance payment of 1/4 of the PM salary.

She can refuse the severance pay or not set up an office post-premiership - I think the pension is just an entitlement where she's paid into those two schemes as an MP and minister.

[Jacob]

I was misinformed. Thank you for the correction

[The Brain]

A king cobra (answers to Sir Hiss) is on the loose in Stockholm, so if you visit now watch your step.

Update: he has been caught on camera but remains at large for now.

[Syt]

Is Dirk Benedict on the case yet?

[crazy canuck]

Liz Truss is getting £115,000 yearly from now on out, after resigning as prime minister. That's pretty decent, since she can still work - and is probably going to make decent money.

Yes, someone with little to no merit, doing the only thing that would pay her what she earned as a politician and she lasted long enough that she gets a pension.

Proof positive of my point. If politicians earned the same amount as people who are highly educated and to have a skill set to run a large country, perhaps the skill of the politicians will be increased.

You get what you pay for

[crazy canuck]

That's the wrong comparable though. Politician salaries used to be commensurate with higher wage earners. If you want people who are educated and good policymakers you shouldn't pay the same salary as somebody who stocks groceries shelves.

You might want to elect somebody who stocks grocery shelves but that's a separate issue. The wages that are currently paid to politicians select out for a fairly large group who would have to make significant financial sacrifices in their peak earning years.

To be clear £85k is a lot for a supermarket worker - but it is a significant payrise for the vast majority of people, including most public sector workers, working class people, trade unionists etc. Politicians are objectively high earners.

I think a bigger problem is that our parties have narrowed the access for the rest of society to politics not that high earners from the City or lawyers etc don't have the right financial incentives - I think we have enough of them and I think it's more a reflection of wider issues with that group.

We are not just talking about lawyers. There's enough low income lawyers who turn to politics already.

[Josquius]

That's the wrong comparable though. Politician salaries used to be commensurate with higher wage earners. If you want people who are educated and good policymakers you shouldn't pay the same salary as somebody who stocks groceries shelves.

You might want to elect somebody who stocks grocery shelves but that's a separate issue. The wages that are currently paid to politicians select out for a fairly large group who would have to make significant financial sacrifices in their peak earning years.

To be clear £85k is a lot for a supermarket worker - but it is a significant payrise for the vast majority of people, including most public sector workers, working class people, trade unionists etc. Politicians are objectively high earners.

I think a bigger problem is that our parties have narrowed the access for the rest of society to politics not that high earners from the City or lawyers etc don't have the right financial incentives - I think we have enough of them and I think it's more a reflection of wider issues with that group.

I don't even think it is that much.
Its more than what I earn certainly. But it needs considering in context- these are people who reached the absolute top of the field.
If I reached the top of my field I'd be expecting to earn more than that. Its the same for most areas too. And with a considerably higher ratio of people who make it to those who get stuck in the lower-levels; which for politicians I understand it generally don't even pay at all.

[Sheilbh]

Yes, someone with little to no merit, doing the only thing that would pay her what she earned as a politician and she lasted long enough that she gets a pension.

Proof positive of my point. If politicians earned the same amount as people who are highly educated and to have a skill set to run a large country, perhaps the skill of the politicians will be increased.

You get what you pay for

Her background is an accountant and she had a career working in Shell and what's now Vodafone before she moved into politics in her thirties. From what I understand she was doing fine in that career. I suspect that - like every recent Prime Minister I can think of - she probably basically took a paycut.

As I said she is part of the pension schemes for MPs and Ministers but they are based on how long you're there/paying into the scheme.

I'm not sure that well paid jobs = skill set to run a country. I'm also not convinced that skill set is necessarily the same as skill set to be a leader in a democratic society.

Pay could be a way of compensating for it but I think the bigger obstacle for people - including those where it would be a big pay rise - is the quality of life for politicians. They are broadly held in contempt by voters. There's the 24 hour news cycle as well as social media. Plus - enabled by that - increasing expectations on MPs from voters. There are lots of factors that I think contribute to it being a pretty shit job from a lifestyle perspective - more pay might help, but I'm not sure it's enough. I don't know how we change it - but I think we need a look at our political cultures and society (as I say, no idea how you get the toothpaste back in the tube for, say, rolling news and social media or the end of deference which are - on their own - good things).

[Valmy]

Pay could be a way of compensating for it but I think the bigger obstacle for people - including those where it would be a big pay rise - is the quality of life for politicians. They are broadly held in contempt by voters. There's the 24 hour news cycle as well as social media. Plus - enabled by that - increasing expectations on MPs from voters. There are lots of factors that I think contribute to it being a pretty shit job from a lifestyle perspective - more pay might help, but I'm not sure it's enough. I don't know how we change it - but I think we need a look at our political cultures and society (as I say, no idea how you get the toothpaste back in the tube for, say, rolling news and social media or the end of deference which are - on their own - good things).

Yeah being a politician would be horrible. I know the dynamics in Britain are a little different but in the US the more successful you are the more people are going to hate you and think you are evil. Even in minor local offices things can get pretty nasty pretty fast. Especially with something associated with the culture war like a School Board. Public office seems like one of the most stressful and unpleasant jobs in America. But at least with those offices it is only shitty when you are actually doing the job. If you are a congressman or a senator or some kind of statewide office holder where everybody knows your name and face? Well you almost can't live as a private citizen anymore without putting up with shit. Fortunately people tend to forget politicians quickly once they retire but still...

Was Nancy Pelosi's husband being attacked a random attack? Or was it connected to his wife's political career? It's a nasty business.