Let's see who the better prognosticator is.
I say 281-257 for Barrack "the Islamic Shock" Obama
Popular vote margin will be within one percent, and either candidate could win it.
Romney wins Iowa due to Yi's unflagging efforts.
Romey wins, 5-4.
Some one wins; Americans lose again.
Voting under way!
Quote
2357: The candidates are barely off the stump and polls are about to open in the first voting precinct in the country: Dixville Notch, New Hampshire. The handful of voters - 10, according to the Associated Press - will be the first to cast their ballots just after the stroke of midnight on election day.
0005: Barack Obama and Mitt Romney win five votes each in New Hampshire hamlet of Dixville Notch, opening US election 2012.
And it's already a dead heat. :cool:
Voila. I gave Obama Missouri for shits and giggles, since it's semi-close there. NC also, why not.
North Carolina is a lot more plausible than Missouri I think.
Yup. Even Florida's a stretch on my map, but hey, you never know.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on November 06, 2012, 12:29:25 AM
North Carolina is a lot more plausible than Missouri I think.
My polling numbers indicate 100% of Missourians favor Obama, it's just a question of whether they can make it out of the house to the polling station. :hmm:
I'll do my part for Missouri, for all the good it does. Still I can help keep Todd Akin out of the senate.
You know, I look forward to the end of the campaigns.
There'll be a couple weeks of disagreeing analysis why X won and Y lost, in half a year everyone will be back to the normal bitching about the incompetent idiot in the White House, and in two years, two and a half tops, the whole merry-go-round will start spinning up again when the parties start looking for 2016 candidates.
I give Obama a 75% likelihood of winning the election. The latter two debates slowed Romney's momentum, and Hurricane Sandy put a break on the campaign while boosting the President in a non-partisan coming together moment. Further, short-term economic indicators have held up with unemployment rate still under 8%, housing stabilizing, consumer spending up, and the Dow above 13000.
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/51524/2012electionmap1105likely.png)
However, as I have stressed time and time again, Romney remains uncomfortably within striking distance. In public polling, Obama's margins are just not high enough ("consistently small") to be assured of victory in swing states such as Ohio, New Hampshire, and even Nevada. Thus, this "Romney Surprise" is quite possible:
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/51524/2012electionmap1105surprise.png)
Finally, if the Bradley effect and campaign internal polling are as bad as I suspect:
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/51524/2012electionmap1105unlikely.png)
While Obama is more likely to win the election, a Romney is landslide is more likely than an Obama landslide according to my calculations. :D
I'm not laughing at you or your prediction. I'm laughing in America's general direction if that happens. Again.
Lewis Black in 2000, i.e. 12 years ago:
QuoteIn my lifetime, we've gone from Eisenhower to George W. Bush. We've gone from John F. Kennedy to Al Gore. If this is evolution, I believe that in twelve years, we'll be voting for plants.
My best guess is that President Obama wins, 310-228.
It could be much closer than that, but even if you give Governor Romney Florida, Virginia, and North Carolina, he still needs to carry either Ohio or Pennsylvania to win, and I don't think he can. Even worse for him, he could carry 1 of those 2 and still lose.
Obama takes it 303-235.
Quote from: Phillip V on November 06, 2012, 01:30:56 AM
Finally, if the Bradley effect and campaign internal polling are as bad as I suspect:
Yes we should count something that may or may not have actually happened thirty years ago as a significant factor in this election.
Romney wins Fl and NC. Obama the rest of the swing states. Can't be bothered working it out, you do the map.
I'm gonna say 269-269 with small romney leads in Virginia, Iowa, Colorado and Nevada.
Quote from: Viking on November 06, 2012, 08:35:33 AM
I'm gonna say 269-269 with small romney leads in Virginia, Iowa, Colorado and Nevada.
Wishful thinking there.
Fuck if I know. Interesting that Phil, who has been trumpeting Pro-Romney polls for the last three weeks is giving it to Obama.
Romney carries NC, VA and FL.
He wins Wisconsin in a historic "hey, let's keep fucking ourselves over, we have been the last 2 years, why stop now" continuation of the state's War Against Government, Labor and Women we've watched for the last 4 years.
Enough people stay home in Pennsylvania, worried about whether or not they're even allowed to fucking vote anymore after all the bullshit this summer, and Romney carries it in a squeaker.
Colorado is contested and goes Romney, after enduring the same state GOP shenanigans the last 3 months that Florida went through in 2000.
Romney 287, Obama 251.
I'm already calling for robe and slippers fittings.
:tinfoil:
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 06, 2012, 08:37:58 AM
Quote from: Viking on November 06, 2012, 08:35:33 AM
I'm gonna say 269-269 with small romney leads in Virginia, Iowa, Colorado and Nevada.
Wishful thinking there.
Having Biden in charge might be fun.
I think it comes down to a few thousand votes in the key states, but Obama wins several of them and takes the election.
Quote from: katmai on November 06, 2012, 08:50:00 AM
:tinfoil:
I don't trust state Republicans in charge of electoral processes.
"I am committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year." Walden O'Dell, CEO, Diebold Inc., August 14th, 2003.
Quote from: katmai on November 06, 2012, 08:55:44 AM
Quote from: Viking on November 06, 2012, 08:50:58 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 06, 2012, 08:37:58 AM
Quote from: Viking on November 06, 2012, 08:35:33 AM
I'm gonna say 269-269 with small romney leads in Virginia, Iowa, Colorado and Nevada.
Wishful thinking there.
Having Biden in charge might be fun.
:huh:
A tie means that the new congress votes. A 50-50 senate means biden breaks the tie.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 06, 2012, 08:56:12 AM
Quote from: katmai on November 06, 2012, 08:50:00 AM
:tinfoil:
I don't trust state Republicans in charge of electoral processes.
"I am committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."
Walden O'Dell, CEO, Diebold Inc., August 14th, 2003.
You need to get over ohio 2004. Kerry was never going to carry butler county. Nobody liked that long faced son of a bitch here.
Fuck, he couldn't even carry union heavy Clark.
go out and do your duty yanks. While you are at it, choose wisely.
I think it would have been fun if Kerry had won and we had John Edwards as our Vice President. Would have given new meaning to the term VICE President. :cool:
I think Obama will win the Kerry states + Iowa, Ohio, Nevada and Virginia.
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 06, 2012, 10:49:43 AM
I think Obama will win the Kerry states + Iowa, Ohio, Nevada and Virginia.
Well, if Obama
does win Virginia--which I doubt, because the pro-government negroes in Northern Virginia are outnumbered by the anti-government non-negroes in the rest of the state this time around--it would provide an early enough of a barometer, since it's among the states with the earliest closing times at 7pm EST. That's -5 GMT for you metric types. Or +5 GMT, depending on which way you're facing, I suppose.
Quote from: Razgovory on November 06, 2012, 08:42:44 AM
Fuck if I know. Interesting that Phil, who has been trumpeting Pro-Romney polls for the last three weeks is giving it to Obama.
Obama has always been the favored likely winner, and I have never said differently.
My posting of pro-Romney polls is to illustrate that Obama does not have a comfortable margin of victory, and that there is a still a significant chance of a Romney victory.
tldr: close election
Heh. From today's Tampa Bay Times (THE FORMER ST. PETERSBURG TIMES, LIKE IT SHOULD BE)
QuoteThe Pinellas County Supervisor of Elections Office mistakenly places hundreds — possibly thousands — of automatic calls to voters telling them they have until 7 p.m. tomorrow to vote.
Yeah, keep throwing :tinfoil: smilies at me, katmai.
QuoteThe calls went out between 8 a.m. and 8:30 a.m. because of a glitch with the SOE's phone system.
WE JUST FIXED THE GLITCH
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 06, 2012, 11:23:55 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 06, 2012, 10:49:43 AM
I think Obama will win the Kerry states + Iowa, Ohio, Nevada and Virginia.
Well, if Obama does win Virginia--which I doubt, because the pro-government negroes in Northern Virginia are outnumbered by the anti-government non-negroes in the rest of the state this time around--it would provide an early enough of a barometer, since it's among the states with the earliest closing times at 7pm EST. That's -5 GMT for you metric types. Or +5 GMT, depending on which way you're facing, I suppose.
:thumbsup:
So midnight here, for first indications; worth staying up for and of course the banter here, just so long as it's in one thread rather than across 87 timmay spammed ones. <_<
I'm impressed that most people are posting what they expect to happen with no apparent slant toward what they would like to happen (e.g. Timmy and Otto predicting an Obama win, Money predicting a Romney win).
Most of the idiots on my Facebook friends list are predicting that what they want to happen is what's actually going to happen. :rolleyes:
Stephen Harper will win the EC and the popular vote, but his constitutional ineligibility will result in Chinese hackers getting South Park elected.
Quote from: Caliga on November 06, 2012, 12:45:02 PM
I'm impressed that most people are posting what they expect to happen with no apparent slant toward what they would like to happen (e.g. Timmy and Otto predicting an Obama win, Money predicting a Romney win).
Most of the idiots on my Facebook friends list are predicting that what they want to happen is what's actually going to happen. :rolleyes:
You're impressed by our pessimism?
I think Obama will win with 290 EC votes. I don't remember how I came to that on the map, but I do remember giving Romney Florida, Virginia, and Arizona (not that AZ is really up for grabs), and Obama Iowa, Ohio, Wisconsin, and Michigan.
LOL, my man Chris Matthews already had his first meltdown for the day.
Said the race is about two choices, and any "NPRish, PBSish hoity-toity types" that vote "their conscience" with goofball third party Ralph Nader/John Anderson "I like what they stand for" candidates are idiots. :lol:
God, I love that man. The older he gets, the crazier he gets. :lol:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 06, 2012, 12:56:19 PM
LOL, my man Chris Matthews already had his first meltdown for the day.
Said the race is about two choices, and any "NPRish, PBSish hoity-toity types" that vote "their conscience" with goofball third party Ralph Nader/John Anderson "I like what they stand for" candidates are idiots. :lol:
God, I love that man. The older he gets, the crazier he gets. :lol:
:Embarrass:
I voted Green Party for president. :sleep: I didn't intend to when I walked into the booth, but I just felt like it was the right thing to do. I don't agree with all that they want - I'm far more hawkish than they are - but I felt like a vote for a third party was a small - tiny... okay, miniscule - voice against the two-party system.
Way to go, Woman Voter. :rolleyes: :P
Quote from: merithyn on November 06, 2012, 01:00:31 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 06, 2012, 12:56:19 PM
LOL, my man Chris Matthews already had his first meltdown for the day.
Said the race is about two choices, and any "NPRish, PBSish hoity-toity types" that vote "their conscience" with goofball third party Ralph Nader/John Anderson "I like what they stand for" candidates are idiots. :lol:
God, I love that man. The older he gets, the crazier he gets. :lol:
:Embarrass:
I voted Green Party for president. :sleep: I didn't intend to when I walked into the booth, but I just felt like it was the right thing to do. I don't agree with all that they want - I'm far more hawkish than they are - but I felt like a vote for a third party was a small - tiny... okay, miniscule - voice against the two-party system.
Idiot. :mad:
Quote from: merithyn on November 06, 2012, 01:00:31 PM
I didn't intend to when I walked into the booth, but I just felt like it was the right thing to do.
;)
If Romney wins I will be conflicted about who to blame more. Garbon for being an idiot or Meri/Cal for picking the right cause at the wrong time.
Aren't the 3 of us all members of safe states?
Quote from: garbon on November 06, 2012, 01:10:42 PM
Aren't the 3 of us all members of safe states?
You are a symptom of a wider problem. Meri/Cal get the out. Thanks for making my decision easier.
If you know my politics you'll know I'm all over new political movements.
But if order to get my vote you have to show some basic level of organization and possibility of success. What's the point of voting Green when you know they get 0.5% of the overall vote?
On the other hand, voting for a Ross Perot made a lot more sense at the time.
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 06, 2012, 01:11:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 06, 2012, 01:10:42 PM
Aren't the 3 of us all members of safe states?
You are a symptom of a wider problem. Meri/Cal get the out. Thanks for making my decision easier.
A wider problem of being free thinkers?
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 06, 2012, 01:09:49 PM
If Romney wins I will be conflicted about who to blame more. Garbon for being an idiot or Meri/Cal for picking the right cause at the wrong time.
Blame me for not voting. :sleep:
I never vote major party for President as a way of protesting our entrenched two-party political system where the two parties are extremely similar, platform-wise, and utterly beholden to corporate interests due to bribery campaign funding needs. :)
This is the first time I've not voted Liberatarian, though. :sleep:
On the local level, I voted for a Republican for County Clerk, because the alternative was a fat toothless redneck from the Nation clan (the same clan that foisted Carrie Nation upon this country way back when :mad: ), a Democrat for Circuit Clerk because I like her personally, and a Republican for Congress because the Democrat candidate is a Labor whore.
Quote from: merithyn on November 06, 2012, 01:00:31 PM
I voted Green Party for president.
Me too. Since my EC impact is irrelevant, it ended up being between Obama, to boost the popular vote, or Green as a protest vote in favor of breaking the 2-party duopoly. I'm convinced we have to do the latter in order to fix the rest of what's broken so that's which way I went. The greens have consistently campaigned for electoral reform. The Libertarians do too, technically, but mostly they seem to just be for guns and isolationism.
Quote from: garbon on November 06, 2012, 01:13:01 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 06, 2012, 01:11:25 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 06, 2012, 01:10:42 PM
Aren't the 3 of us all members of safe states?
You are a symptom of a wider problem. Meri/Cal get the out. Thanks for making my decision easier.
A wider problem of being free thinkers?
No the mental deficiency that is apparent in supporting Romney. Whatever might be said of Meri/Ca's choice they didnt come close to that kind of blunder.
:lol:
Quote from: Barrister on November 06, 2012, 01:12:01 PM
What's the point of voting Green when you know they get 0.5% of the overall vote?
Isn't there a bit of a recursive element to this like of reasoning?
I voted for Democrats across the board. For one of the seats, there was no Democrat, and only a single Independent candidate. I couldn't figure out who to vote for there, so I left that blank.
I voted for a mix of Repubs and Dems. In some cases, the same candidate was listed as the Dem and Repub choice.
Quote from: DGuller on November 06, 2012, 01:22:22 PM
I voted for Democrats across the board.
Whenever I hear this I think 'dumb'. But in your case I first think 'Jew', so it's all good. :bowler:
Quote from: garbon on November 06, 2012, 01:23:46 PM
In some cases, the same candidate was listed as the Dem and Repub choice.
:huh:
Quote from: garbon on November 06, 2012, 01:23:46 PM
I voted for a mix of Repubs and Dems. In some cases, the same candidate was listed as the Dem and Repub choice.
In NY, you can run in the primaries for all the parties if you want, and that's what is routinely done. Kind of makes it much easier to create other parties, since they can always piggyback on the candidate from the major party.
Quote from: DGuller on November 06, 2012, 01:25:43 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 06, 2012, 01:23:46 PM
I voted for a mix of Repubs and Dems. In some cases, the same candidate was listed as the Dem and Repub choice.
In NY, you can run in the primaries for all the parties if you want, and that's what is routinely done. Kind of makes it much easier to create other parties, since they can always piggyback on the candidate from the major party.
Gotcha, thanks. Yeah it looked kinda odd.
Quote from: Caliga on November 06, 2012, 01:25:27 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 06, 2012, 01:23:46 PM
In some cases, the same candidate was listed as the Dem and Repub choice.
:huh:
Better yet for one position said person was the only option. :D
Quote from: Caliga on November 06, 2012, 01:24:46 PM
Quote from: DGuller on November 06, 2012, 01:22:22 PM
I voted for Democrats across the board.
Whenever I hear this I think 'dumb'. But in your case I first think 'Jew', so it's all good. :bowler:
To be fair, there were only five seats contested. I would never vote for any Republican for a federal seat as long as Republicans are uber-nutso, so that took care of three seats. The other seat had only the single Democratic candidate. The last one was the one with only an Independent candidate. For statewide elections and below, I'm definitely open to voting for Republicans, even for governor (which is pretty risky, since Frank Lautenberg statistically speaking should already be dead).
Christie :showoff:
Quote from: Caliga on November 06, 2012, 01:31:06 PM
Christie :showoff:
At one point, I may have voted for him. However, I know see him as a loudmouth for the sake of being a loudmouth, and a pretty liberal liar. I'm not going to reject him out of hand, but unless the Democratic candidate for governor is a flake, it's going to be unlikely.
Democrats are always flakes
Quote from: Caliga on November 06, 2012, 12:45:02 PM
I'm impressed that most people are posting what they expect to happen with no apparent slant toward what they would like to happen (e.g. Timmy and Otto predicting an Obama win, Money predicting a Romney win).
Most of the idiots on my Facebook friends list are predicting that what they want to happen is what's actually going to happen. :rolleyes:
I think that's because a lot of people in the world at large don't have the capacity to distinguish what they want from what is. I want lots of things to happen, but that has little bearing on whether any of them will happen. Your average facebook friend, if you're like most people and have collected some random ones you went to high school or college with, probably represent a good cross section of the country's ignorance so they don't really think on a rational level about a lot of things. Some people hate when random idiots they knew in High School ask to friend them, I actually love it. Makes me chuckle to read about someone I vaguely knew back then and their 10 babies and their crazy religious beliefs.
:D
I get plenty of that flavor of crazy from Princesca's family and friends on FB. Most of the people I went to school with are intelligent and well-educated on account of me having grown up in a very wealthy suburban area of Philadelphia. Princesca's experience = DIFFERENT. :ph34r:
I will say this, I've consistently projected an Obama win. I maintain for reasons based on my analysis of history if any candidate wins in a landslide it's more likely to be Romney. Basically it's a lot more likely (and history bears this out) if there is going to be a late swing in opinion it'll be against the incumbent. There aren't really any historical examples of a lot of undecided voters all breaking for the incumbent, but a few times they have broken for the challenger. That kind of makes intrinsic sense too, an incumbent's base is far less likely to change over time because the support will be based on fundamental issues and past performance that can't be heavily modified by a campaign.
Probably the closest we've had to a late swing for the incumbent would be Truman in '48, but it wasn't really. Truman had slowly whittled Dewey's massive lead down to within 5-10 points by September, and then many/all national pollsters quit polling. Wisdom of the time was voters didn't change their minds past that point, and Dewey's lead was insurmountable anyway. But it seems the progression continued on all the way up to election day, with Truman having steadily built support over the final months to win a solid electoral vote victory.
Quote from: Caliga on November 06, 2012, 01:04:51 PM
Quote from: merithyn on November 06, 2012, 01:00:31 PM
I voted Green Party for president.
Same. :ph34r:
:hug:
You can all call me whatever names you want, but the reality is that I don't live in a state where my presidential vote actually matters. Which means that I can vote to make a stand with impunity so long as I live here, so I'm going to take advantage of that during this election. :) Next year, I could end up somewhere like New Hampshire and it will be a different story, but for now, I get to vote my conscience.
Here you go, Gully.
Quote
1:45 PM | Chris Christie tears into "know-nothing, disgruntled Romney staffers."
Chris Christie fired back today at Romney staffers who threw him under the bus in a Politico report last weekend, calling them "know-nothing, disgruntled Romney staffers" in a press conference today.
Yesterday, The Huffington Post reported that Christie had declined a request from Romney, further irritating Romney insiders.
"I told Governor Romney at that time that if the storm landed as predicted that it was going to be catastrophic to New Jersey and unprecedented," Christie said today, according to the Huff Po. "I said to him, 'Listen, Mitt, if this storm hits the way I think it's going to, I'm off the campaign trail from here to Election Day.' And he said to me, 'Chris, of course. That's what you have to do. Do your job, don't worry about me. I'll take care of things.' So all this other noise, I think, is coming from know-nothing, disgruntled Romney staffers who, you know, don't like the fact that I said nice things about the President of the United States. Well, that's too bad for them."
Quote from: Caliga on November 06, 2012, 01:04:51 PM
Quote from: merithyn on November 06, 2012, 01:00:31 PM
I voted Green Party for president.
Same. :ph34r:
Some excerpts from the Green Party platform on foreign policy:
QuoteThe U.S. must recognize and abide by the authority of the U.N. General Assembly to act in a crisis situation by passing a resolution under the Uniting for Peace Procedure when the U.N. Security Council is stalemated by vetoes.
We seek the permanent repeal of the veto power enjoyed by the five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council.
Dismantle all nuclear warheads from their missiles.
The U.S. must allow foreign teams to visit the U.S. for verification purposes [chemical/bio-weapons] at least annually.
We urge our government to phase out all bases not specifically functioning under a U.N. resolution to keep peace and bring home our troops stationed abroad, except for the military assigned to protect a U.S. embassy
We urge our government to prohibit all arms sales to foreign nations and likewise prohibit grants to impoverished and undemocratic nations unless the money is targeted on domestic, non-military needs
We reaffirm the right and feasibility of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes in Israel.
We reject U.S. unbalanced financial and military support of Israel while Israel occupies Palestinian lands and maintains an apartheid-like system in both the Occupied Palestinian Territories and in Israel toward its non-Jewish citizens. Therefore, we call on the U.S. President and Congress to suspend all military and foreign aid, including loans and grants, to Israel until Israel withdraws from the Occupied Territories, dismantles the separation wall in the Occupied West Bank including East Jerusalem, ends its siege of Gaza and its apartheid-like system both within the Occupied Palestinian Territories and in Israel toward its non-Jewish citizens
We also reject U.S. political support for Israel and demand that the U.S. government end its veto of Security Council resolutions pertaining to Israel.
We call on the foreign and military affairs committees of the U.S. House and Senate to conduct full hearings on the status of human rights and war crimes in Palestine-Israel, especially violations committed during Israel's 2008-2009 invasion of Gaza ("Operation Cast Lead")
Replace the US Marine Corps with a dedicated amphibious battalion of a capella singers deployable within 24 hours to sing kumbaya anywhere conflict may arise around the world
OK - maybe the last one didn't quite make the final approved platform but the rest is there.
Also - the Green Party "Foreign Policy" section includes planks for Puerto Rican Independence but nothing about the EU, China, Russia, India, Pakistan, indeed nothing regarding the entire contintents of South America, Africa, Europe, or Asia (other than Israel and Palestinians).
Sorry but you just voted for the Silly Party.
I think it's pretty cool that Christie and Bruce Springsteen are pals now. Something good came out of the storm after all. :cool:
Quote from: Barrister on November 06, 2012, 01:12:01 PM
If you know my politics you'll know I'm all over new political movements.
But if order to get my vote you have to show some basic level of organization and possibility of success. What's the point of voting Green when you know they get 0.5% of the overall vote?
On the other hand, voting for a Ross Perot made a lot more sense at the time.
:huh:
It made more sense to vote for an insane guy than to vote for a woman that I actually agree with on most topics? That's just silly.
And the point of voting for them is to hopefully, over time, give them enough support that they become viable candidates and more people will vote for them despite the overwhelming odds against them.
By the way, I voted for Democrats, Republicans, Independents, and Green Party in this election.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 06, 2012, 01:53:17 PM
Some excerpts from the Green Party platform on foreign policy:
OK - maybe the last one didn't quite make the final approved platform but the rest is there.
Also - the Green Party "Foreign Policy" section includes planks for Puerto Rican Independence but nothing about the EU, China, Russia, India, Pakistan, indeed nothing regarding the entire contintents of South America, Africa, Europe, or Asia (other than Israel and Palestinians).
Sorry but you just voted for the Silly Party.
Those were the reasons I hadn't intended to vote for them. Nonetheless, I still believe that since my vote was merely symbolic anyway, casting it for a third party was the right thing to do.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 06, 2012, 01:53:17 PM
Sorry but you just voted for the Silly Party.
I didn't really vote for the Green Party because I agree with the Green Party platform. I disagree with a big portion of it though I do agree with them on a lot of their social stances (I am for gay marriage, abortion rights, against the death penalty, etc.)
I voted Green because I knew Princesca would vote Libertarian, and as I said I usually vote Libertarian myself, so the Libs still got one vote out of our household. But I don't recall the Green Party being on the Kentucky ballot before and I want to keep them on it, so I figure every vote counts when such a small number of Kentuckians are going to vote Green... in fact I wouldn't be surprised if I'm the only person in my county who votes for Stein. As I mentioned earlier I hate our entrenched two-party system so anything I can do to help break it down, no matter how insignificant it might seem, is something I feel almost ethically obligated to do.
Also, there were two other reasons. I remember Jill Stein from my Massachusetts days when she ran for Governor (against Romney in fact, IIRC) and she came across as a genuine, kind, honest person. I like the fact that she's a doctor instead of a lawyer, since doctors devote their careers to helping people, whereas lawyers are evil monsters hell-bent on destroying civilization. Also, I like the fact that she's a woman, since I think it's embarassing that we've still not had a female leader when countries like
Brazil have already crossed that hurdle.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 06, 2012, 01:53:17 PM
Dismantle all nuclear warheads from their missiles.
So putting a nuclear warhead on a missile is bad, but it's okay to drop one from a plane like it's 1945?
The funny thing is, even if we had a third party or a fifth party and a hundredth party, people would still be dissatisfied with the system. You would still find parts of a political party that you dislike.
Quote from: Razgovory on November 06, 2012, 02:03:32 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 06, 2012, 01:53:17 PM
Dismantle all nuclear warheads from their missiles.
So putting a nuclear warhead on a missile is bad, but it's okay to drop one from a plane like it's 1945?
That's a hell of a non sequitor.
The problem with the Greens or the Libertarians is that they are self-defining as fringe parties. They will never be the seed for a viable alternative party because they are completely captured by their own acitivists who foist this kind of self-indulgent claptrap onto the platform. If a competitive third party is to arise, it will need to have a much broader base of appeal and be closer to the mainstream.
Quote from: Gups on November 06, 2012, 02:07:16 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 06, 2012, 02:03:32 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 06, 2012, 01:53:17 PM
Dismantle all nuclear warheads from their missiles.
So putting a nuclear warhead on a missile is bad, but it's okay to drop one from a plane like it's 1945?
That's a hell of a non sequitor.
Eh, what?
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 06, 2012, 02:10:50 PM
The problem with the Greens or the Libertarians is that they are self-defining as fringe parties. They will never be the seed for a viable alternative party because they are completely captured by their own acitivists who foist this kind of self-indulgent claptrap onto the platform. If a competitive third party is to arise, it will need to have a much broader base of appeal and be closer to the mainstream.
Agreed, but no one is going to even try that so long as there is little to no support for even the fringe groups.
I'm with Caliga on this one. There's a time and a place for third party votes, and today was the time and place for mine.
Neither of you live in a swing state.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 06, 2012, 02:28:55 PM
Neither of you live in a swing state.
Yep, so following Meri's argument, the place is Kentucky (for me), and the time is every single damn election. :rolleyes:
The only realistic third parties would just be splinters of the existing big tent.
You could have a Rockefeller Republican style center-right party that could focus on traditional conservative fiscal and economic policies while sharing some "moral support" for social causes (like being "morally" opposed to abortion and "morally" supporting traditional family values), but with the caveat that they believe those issues aren't fit for government legislation and thus should be left to personal conscience/etc. Sort of like some of the Christian Dem parties on the Continent, a lot of them have platforms where they endorse legal abortion rights but make some meaningless platitude comment about believing it is a moral concern.
I could also see a split between blue collar union style Democrats and more hippie granola eating style true lefties.
If you had a few party divisions like that it'd just result in coalitions in the House which would be fine, but it gets complicated for Presidential elections. Since we require an absolute majority to avoid kicking the vote to the House, we'd essentially have all elections decided by the House of Representatives. Unless the center-left parties and the center-right parties had the convention of nominating the same candidate (so there'd be one candidate representing the conservative / liberal sides) for the Presidency.
Quote from: merithyn on November 06, 2012, 02:23:49 PM
Agreed, but no one is going to even try that so long as there is little to no support for even the fringe groups.
I don't think that follows. Nobody wants to form a sane third party, because parties that support arming every American with atomic weapons or the physical destruction of world Jewry can't win support to their lunatic ideas?
Quote from: Neil on November 06, 2012, 02:35:21 PM
Quote from: merithyn on November 06, 2012, 02:23:49 PM
Agreed, but no one is going to even try that so long as there is little to no support for even the fringe groups.
I don't think that follows. Nobody wants to form a sane third party, because parties that support arming every American with atomic weapons or the physical destruction of world Jewry can't win support to their lunatic ideas?
You're going on the assumption that people actually know what the fringe parties support. No one does! Or at least, very few do. Most people know enough to go, "Well, I don't like either of the other parties, and this one wants smaller government and aren't already part of the big government. I think I'll vote for them." Or "This party is all about green energy, which I think is important to our future. I think I'll vote for them." But they don't know enough of the rest to make them hesitate.
My point is that so long as the mantra among the "rational" is that a third-party vote is a wasted vote, there will never be a strong third party option. If enough dis-enfranchised voters start tossing their votes to the "fringe parties", then maybe it will cease being considered a wasted vote.
It'll really help the 3rd party cause forces the networks (or whatever) to have their candidate on a TV debate.
Quote from: merithyn on November 06, 2012, 02:53:56 PM
Quote from: Neil on November 06, 2012, 02:35:21 PM
Quote from: merithyn on November 06, 2012, 02:23:49 PM
Agreed, but no one is going to even try that so long as there is little to no support for even the fringe groups.
I don't think that follows. Nobody wants to form a sane third party, because parties that support arming every American with atomic weapons or the physical destruction of world Jewry can't win support to their lunatic ideas?
You're going on the assumption that people actually know what the fringe parties support. No one does! Or at least, very few do. Most people know enough to go, "Well, I don't like either of the other parties, and this one wants smaller government and aren't already part of the big government. I think I'll vote for them." Or "This party is all about green energy, which I think is important to our future. I think I'll vote for them." But they don't know enough of the rest to make them hesitate.
My point is that so long as the mantra among the "rational" is that a third-party vote is a wasted vote, there will never be a strong third party option. If enough dis-enfranchised voters start tossing their votes to the "fringe parties", then maybe it will cease being considered a wasted vote.
I think you're just trying to rationalize having voted for William Dudley Pelley.
Quote from: mongers on November 06, 2012, 12:23:53 PM
So midnight here, for first indications; worth staying up for and of course the banter here, just so long as it's in one thread rather than across 87 timmay spammed ones. <_<
Indeed. In around 3 hours I will be drunk, bloated off snacks and twitter abusing Dick Morris :w00t:
Or, I'll be drunk, bloated off snacks and shouting abuse at BBC coverage.
Who can say?
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 06, 2012, 02:55:37 PM
It'll really help the 3rd party cause forces the networks (or whatever) to have their candidate on a TV debate.
It might also help if they weren't all crazy people.
Quote from: Neil on November 06, 2012, 03:11:31 PM
Quote from: merithyn on November 06, 2012, 02:53:56 PM
Quote from: Neil on November 06, 2012, 02:35:21 PM
Quote from: merithyn on November 06, 2012, 02:23:49 PM
Agreed, but no one is going to even try that so long as there is little to no support for even the fringe groups.
I don't think that follows. Nobody wants to form a sane third party, because parties that support arming every American with atomic weapons or the physical destruction of world Jewry can't win support to their lunatic ideas?
You're going on the assumption that people actually know what the fringe parties support. No one does! Or at least, very few do. Most people know enough to go, "Well, I don't like either of the other parties, and this one wants smaller government and aren't already part of the big government. I think I'll vote for them." Or "This party is all about green energy, which I think is important to our future. I think I'll vote for them." But they don't know enough of the rest to make them hesitate.
My point is that so long as the mantra among the "rational" is that a third-party vote is a wasted vote, there will never be a strong third party option. If enough dis-enfranchised voters start tossing their votes to the "fringe parties", then maybe it will cease being considered a wasted vote.
I think you're just trying to rationalize having voted for William Dudley Pelley.
Meri and Cal would have voted for George Wallace.
Quote from: Razgovory on November 06, 2012, 04:25:46 PM
Meri and Cal would have voted for George Wallace.
Oh, did he hate Jews too?
Quote from: Razgovory on November 06, 2012, 04:25:46 PM
Meri and Cal would have voted for George Wallace.
:yawn: You are but an insect to me.
Quote from: merithyn on November 06, 2012, 02:53:56 PM
Quote from: Neil on November 06, 2012, 02:35:21 PM
Quote from: merithyn on November 06, 2012, 02:23:49 PM
Agreed, but no one is going to even try that so long as there is little to no support for even the fringe groups.
I don't think that follows. Nobody wants to form a sane third party, because parties that support arming every American with atomic weapons or the physical destruction of world Jewry can't win support to their lunatic ideas?
You're going on the assumption that people actually know what the fringe parties support. No one does! Or at least, very few do. Most people know enough to go, "Well, I don't like either of the other parties, and this one wants smaller government and aren't already part of the big government. I think I'll vote for them." Or "This party is all about green energy, which I think is important to our future. I think I'll vote for them." But they don't know enough of the rest to make them hesitate.
My point is that so long as the mantra among the "rational" is that a third-party vote is a wasted vote, there will never be a strong third party option. If enough dis-enfranchised voters start tossing their votes to the "fringe parties", then maybe it will cease being considered a wasted vote.
There's no strong third-party option because there are no strong third parties. The third parties you point to have crazy and outlandish policy platforms that do appeal to a small function of die-hards, but not the general public.
That's not to say that there can never be a strong third party. There have been hints of it. Ross Perot and his Reform Party came closest - fighting on general main-stream issues that could appeal to mainstream voters. Then of course Perot himself turned out to be a crackpot, and the Reform Party got hijacked by Pat Buchanan, but it showed the potential.
Quote from: Caliga on November 06, 2012, 04:33:35 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 06, 2012, 04:25:46 PM
Meri and Cal would have voted for George Wallace.
:yawn: You are but an insect to me.
Well, you did kinda segregate yourself by moving to rural Kentucky.
So in a moment of grave sadness my wife revealed to me she cast a vote for the Kenyan Interloper. Key takeaways:
1. She isn't a huge fan of Obamacare but thinks it is a move in the right direction. This is becoming common at her hospital as more of the doctors are crazily starting to support legislation that could undermine their high pay and country club lifestyles.
2. She says that Romney is far too elitist and doesn't have the interests of the middle class or lower class whatsoever.
I almost choked at hearing this. If America had landed nobility, my wife's family would be part of it, they're about as close to true aristocracy as you can get in this country. They literally trace back to the beginnings of Virginia and were wealthy plantation owners before guys like Washington or Jefferson were even born. On her maternal side, she has a great-grandfather that ran a large coal mining and later timber operation, uncles that have been bank Presidents. On her paternal side there's a long line of lawyers, several that have been honest-to-god judges (and not BS justices of the peace, but real jurists--and in Virginia our legislature appoints our judges so it tends to be even more of an insular and cliqueish group), and her own father was President of a pretty large newspaper before retirement. This is a woman who went to one of those ultra-expensive, small private Southern schools and whose brothers and father were majorly involved in polo while at UVA (note it's a self-funded sport there with the participants owning / maintaining their own horses and equipment.)
While I was tying a deer I'd just killed to the hood of my Trans-Am in High School and getting ready to pound a bottle of Evan Williams with my friends, she was going to white tie cotillions. If anyone in this family can speak to the middle class it'd be me.
This is why I don't let my wife vote. Interferes with sandwich making.
Quote from: Caliga on November 06, 2012, 04:33:35 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 06, 2012, 04:25:46 PM
Meri and Cal would have voted for George Wallace.
:yawn: You are but an insect to me.
Gas station food must have done more to your waistline then I thought.
What time do the results come out?
G.
The earliest States will close at 7 PM eastern. In that first batch Virginia is the only notable swing state. At 7:30 North Carolina and Ohio close, at 8:00 a lot of the other big swing states close (Pennsylvania, Florida), by 9 PM eastern essentially all important swing states will have closed.
Around 9 you might be hearing them call Virginia and maybe North Carolina. Ohio is a clusterfuck so I doubt they call it until late into the night to avoid embarrassment of any kind.
If you have states like Virginia, North Carolina, and Ohio called before 10 then something unexpected is probably afoot. Either Obama drubbing Mitt or a big Mitt rally.
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on November 06, 2012, 04:37:50 PM
So in a moment of grave sadness my wife revealed to me she cast a vote for the Kenyan Interloper. Key takeaways:
1. She isn't a huge fan of Obamacare but thinks it is a move in the right direction. This is becoming common at her hospital as more of the doctors are crazily starting to support legislation that could undermine their high pay and country club lifestyles.
2. She says that Romney is far too elitist and doesn't have the interests of the middle class or lower class whatsoever.
I almost choked at hearing this. If America had landed nobility, my wife's family would be part of it, they're about as close to true aristocracy as you can get in this country. They literally trace back to the beginnings of Virginia and were wealthy plantation owners before guys like Washington or Jefferson were even born. On her maternal side, she has a great-grandfather that ran a large coal mining and later timber operation, uncles that have been bank Presidents. On her paternal side there's a long line of lawyers, several that have been honest-to-god judges (and not BS justices of the peace, but real jurists--and in Virginia our legislature appoints our judges so it tends to be even more of an insular and cliqueish group), and her own father was President of a pretty large newspaper before retirement. This is a woman who went to one of those ultra-expensive, small private Southern schools and whose brothers and father were majorly involved in polo while at UVA (note it's a self-funded sport there with the participants owning / maintaining their own horses and equipment.)
While I was tying a deer I'd just killed to the hood of my Trans-Am in High School and getting ready to pound a bottle of Evan Williams with my friends, she was going to white tie cotillions. If anyone in this family can speak to the middle class it'd be me.
Sounds like she's also has a lot of experience of dealing with elitists, and can spot one when she sees one.
Now, several of the big swing States have large scale mail-in voting this year and have had in-person early voting. Most of these states will immediately be reporting the results of those votes shortly after the polls close as they are already counting them and will have them ready by that time. Now, the early voter and mail-in voter demographic is usually statistically significantly different from the election day voters, so you might see one of the candidates with big leads in that first batch of release as they have big leads among those voters. (Essentially Obama is projected to have good leads among early voters and mail-in voters, and Romney is expected to do better with election day voters, but it varies a good bit from state to state.) So the first batch may look like one candidate is already doomed in that State but I'd expect the races to tighten over the night. The media and the candidates both know this, so don't expect the election to be called early or a concession phone call anytime tonight, maybe not even tomorrow.
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on November 06, 2012, 04:37:50 PM
So in a moment of grave sadness my wife revealed to me she cast a vote for the Kenyan Interloper. Key takeaways:
1. She isn't a huge fan of Obamacare but thinks it is a move in the right direction. This is becoming common at her hospital as more of the doctors are crazily starting to support legislation that could undermine their high pay and country club lifestyles.
2. She says that Romney is far too elitist and doesn't have the interests of the middle class or lower class whatsoever.
Like all wise men you married someone smarter than you.
Quote from: frunk on November 06, 2012, 04:58:59 PM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on November 06, 2012, 04:37:50 PM
While I was tying a deer I'd just killed to the hood of my Trans-Am in High School and getting ready to pound a bottle of Evan Williams with my friends, she was going to white tie cotillions. If anyone in this family can speak to the middle class it'd be me.
Sounds like she's also has a lot of experience of dealing with elitists, and can spot one when she sees one.
No kidding; my sister married into a prominent St. Louis family--neither she nor my nieces would never have to work if they didn't want to--and it's interesting to see how, among that old-monied, traditional midwestern Republican collective, even
they can't fucking stand the guy.
Even the douchebags of the 1% can tell the douchebags of the .1%.
And the douchebags of the 7.9% hate everybody.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 06, 2012, 02:10:50 PM
The problem with the Greens or the Libertarians is that they are self-defining as fringe parties. They will never be the seed for a viable alternative party because they are completely captured by their own acitivists who foist this kind of self-indulgent claptrap onto the platform. If a competitive third party is to arise, it will need to have a much broader base of appeal and be closer to the mainstream.
I don't think that there'll ever be an actual viable 3rd party for more than 1 elections cycle. Any 3rd party that gets any real chunk of the vote is going to either be co-opted by one (or both) of the existing parties, or will replace one of them.
We've had a 2-party system almost from the start. The identities (and ideologies) of the parties have changed a few times, but things always come back around to a 2-party system within a few years.
Quote from: dps on November 06, 2012, 07:13:12 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 06, 2012, 02:10:50 PM
The problem with the Greens or the Libertarians is that they are self-defining as fringe parties. They will never be the seed for a viable alternative party because they are completely captured by their own acitivists who foist this kind of self-indulgent claptrap onto the platform. If a competitive third party is to arise, it will need to have a much broader base of appeal and be closer to the mainstream.
I don't think that there'll ever be an actual viable 3rd party for more than 1 elections cycle. Any 3rd party that gets any real chunk of the vote is going to either be co-opted by one (or both) of the existing parties, or will replace one of them.
We've had a 2-party system almost from the start. The identities (and ideologies) of the parties have changed a few times, but things always come back around to a 2-party system within a few years.
I agree. The reason why there are only two viable parties at any one time is that our system is designed that way. The way ideological shifts happen is by different wings of the existing parties taking power, not by third parties rising. The GOP of today is radically different from the GOP of 100 years ago (in fact, the Democrats of today are what the GOP of 100 years ago was, more or less, except for the plutocrat wing).
My prediction: O wins every swing state but NC
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on November 06, 2012, 04:37:50 PM
So in a moment of grave sadness my wife revealed to me she cast a vote for the Kenyan Interloper. Key takeaways:
...
I almost choked at hearing this. If America had landed nobility, my wife's family would be part of it, they're about as close to true aristocracy as you can get in this country. ...
:lol: It never ceases to amaze me how so many in the lower classes always seem to buy into the rhetoric of the upper class faction - whatever it may be called from place to place - not realizing said faction isn't working for their interests at all!
G.
Apparently, they still have long lines and have run out of ballots in Racine, Wisconsin.
My ex-girlfriend's fawning pro-Obama posts on FB are annoying me so much that I now officially want Romney to win. :bleeding:
Quote from: Caliga on November 06, 2012, 09:17:01 PM
My ex-girlfriend's fawning pro-Obama posts on FB are annoying me so much that I now officially want Romney to win. :bleeding:
I'm getting heavy GOP derp from one of my brothers.
Florida is gonna be the shit state again, Obama is leading by slightly over 300 votes, after 78% of the polls opened. :nelson:
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 06, 2012, 09:17:58 PM
Quote from: Caliga on November 06, 2012, 09:17:01 PM
My ex-girlfriend's fawning pro-Obama posts on FB are annoying me so much that I now officially want Romney to win. :bleeding:
I'm getting heavy GOP derp from one of my brothers.
My mother's not watching the results.
"It's like a Ravens playoff game...with no more games ever, or the right to choose!"
Hmm, looks like my projections missed the mark. Looks like Romney may lose Florida but carry Virginia, I had projected the opposite.
The winner is: Gridlock. :)
Quote from: Drakken on November 06, 2012, 09:18:57 PM
Florida is gonna be the shit state again, Obama is leading by slightly over 300 votes, after 78% of the polls opened. :nelson:
Nah. Obama has Florida locked up.
Quote from: Neil on November 06, 2012, 09:24:53 PM
Quote from: Drakken on November 06, 2012, 09:18:57 PM
Florida is gonna be the shit state again, Obama is leading by slightly over 300 votes, after 78% of the polls opened. :nelson:
Nah. Obama has Florida locked up.
Nonsense. Plenty of absentee ballots to be thrown out yet.
Florida is such a bullshit State, it's almost like they insist on being prima donnas. This was supposed to be a year we could quietly ignore the sunshine state.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 06, 2012, 09:26:33 PM
Quote from: Neil on November 06, 2012, 09:24:53 PM
Quote from: Drakken on November 06, 2012, 09:18:57 PM
Florida is gonna be the shit state again, Obama is leading by slightly over 300 votes, after 78% of the polls opened. :nelson:
Nah. Obama has Florida locked up.
Nonsense. Plenty of absentee ballots to be thrown out yet.
Jeez , we all knew that Obama had this in the bag for a while now. The campaign is over and the votes are being counted. Can you drop the fake 'I don't know if Obama's going to win' pose yet? You don't need to pretend to be cool. This is Languish, not Hipsterland.
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on November 06, 2012, 09:31:05 PM
Florida is such a bullshit State, it's almost like they insist on being prima donnas. This was supposed to be a year we could quietly ignore the sunshine state.
Well, somebody didn't ignore Florida and that somebody seems to have been working for Obama.
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on November 06, 2012, 09:31:05 PM
Florida is such a bullshit State, it's almost like they insist on being prima donnas. This was supposed to be a year we could quietly ignore the sunshine state.
Romney needs to win Ohio and Colorado for Florida to matter.
I wonder if the Ryan pick hurt Romney in Florida?
Quote from: Neil on November 06, 2012, 09:33:43 PM
Jeez , we all knew that Obama had this in the bag for a while now. The campaign is over and the votes are being counted. Can you drop the fake 'I don't know if Obama's going to win' pose yet? You don't need to pretend to be cool. This is Languish, not Hipsterland.
You're not an American. Therefore, you can't possibly fathom the mistrust I possess in the electoral process, or the lack of faith I have in my fellow Americans to Do The Right Thing(tm).
Okay I'll go ahead and write this one off. Congrats to you koolaid drinking Obama worshipers. 2014 will be fun.
Now back to my Fernet and Coke, plus a room full of kids whose adulation I bought with clearance-priced NFL, baseball, and Halloween items.
Quote from: derspiess on November 06, 2012, 09:52:23 PM
Okay I'll go ahead and write this one off. Congrats to you koolaid drinking Obama worshipers. 2014 will be fun.
Now back to my Fernet and Coke, plus a room full of kids whose adulation I bought with clearance-priced NFL, baseball, and Halloween items.
Hopefully 19-0 Pats gear.
derspeiss - don't miss your opportunity to swap your remaining Argentine debt holdings for Romney Intrade options.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 06, 2012, 09:57:04 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 06, 2012, 09:52:23 PM
Okay I'll go ahead and write this one off. Congrats to you koolaid drinking Obama worshipers. 2014 will be fun.
Now back to my Fernet and Coke, plus a room full of kids whose adulation I bought with clearance-priced NFL, baseball, and Halloween items.
Hopefully 19-0 Pats gear.
:lol: Reds and Bengals crap, plus a couple surprise offerings the wife picked up somewhere: Texans and Oregon Ducks shirts.
Plus a metric fuckton of crappy kids Halloween costumes and half-priced candy. My biracial nephew seems to want to wear the wrong gender's costumes :mellow: He's been wearing this bee costume that is straight out of that Blind Melon video.
What should I do with my fifty bucks? I think I'll send to the government.
Quote from: Ideologue on November 06, 2012, 10:27:46 PM
What should I do with my fifty bucks? I think I'll send to the government.
:homestar:
Quote from: Neil on November 06, 2012, 09:33:43 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 06, 2012, 09:26:33 PM
Quote from: Neil on November 06, 2012, 09:24:53 PM
Quote from: Drakken on November 06, 2012, 09:18:57 PM
Florida is gonna be the shit state again, Obama is leading by slightly over 300 votes, after 78% of the polls opened. :nelson:
Nah. Obama has Florida locked up.
Nonsense. Plenty of absentee ballots to be thrown out yet.
Jeez , we all knew that Obama had this in the bag for a while now. The campaign is over and the votes are being counted. Can you drop the fake 'I don't know if Obama's going to win' pose yet? You don't need to pretend to be cool. This is Languish, not Hipsterland.
:D
Well, hopefully Obama won't fuck things up any more than he already has. Also, hopefully the Republican party will take this opportunity to become more, rather than less, sane.
Quote from: Kleves on November 06, 2012, 10:38:24 PM
Well, hopefully Obama won't fuck things up any more than he already has. Also, hopefully the Republican party will take this opportunity to become more, rather than less, sane.
meh, they'll just blame Romney for being a bad candidate and claim that ACORN stole the election, given all the blacks who voted. The GOP will continue to spiral down until they realize that the tax and sex fanatics can't have a veto on candidates if the party is to be sane.
Quote from: Kleves on November 06, 2012, 10:38:24 PMAlso, hopefully the Republican party will take this opportunity to become more, rather than less, sane.
I worry not. I think they'll see this as a repudiation of moderation (especially if, as it seems, white evangelicals didn't turn out the way they did for Bush and McCain - possibly anti-Mormon bigotry be damned) and they'll probably do well in 2014. So they'll point to that election and 2010 as proof they just need to be purer.
On the upside for Republicans they've got a lot of talent in 2016. Downside is I think they're were the Labour party was in the 80s.
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 06, 2012, 10:44:16 PM
I worry not.
Republicans thinking they have to get more extreme would be an insane reaction. I wish I could say that I didn't think it was likely.
I wonder if Obama will promise to harness the sun and to stop the rise of the oceans again in his victory speech.
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 06, 2012, 10:44:16 PM
On the upside for Republicans they've got a lot of talent in 2016.
The two, or possibly even three, Supreme Court Justices Obama may have the opportunity to nominate will be much more important.
Besides, the Democrats will have a fine field of their own.
I just hope that Chris Christie doesn't suffer immense damage with the GOP over doing his fucking job.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 06, 2012, 11:04:39 PM
Besides, the Democrats will have a fine field of their own.
I disagree. The Democrats, at this point, have a weak, weak field for 2016.
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 06, 2012, 11:10:42 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 06, 2012, 11:04:39 PM
Besides, the Democrats will have a fine field of their own.
I disagree. The Democrats, at this point, have a weak, weak field for 2016.
There is an Irishman from Maryland....
Go home Mittens.... :lol: :lol:
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 06, 2012, 11:10:42 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 06, 2012, 11:04:39 PM
Besides, the Democrats will have a fine field of their own.
I disagree. The Democrats, at this point, have a weak, weak field for 2016.
Both parties have fielded a weak line-up for the past decade and more.
Quote from: dps on November 06, 2012, 11:48:38 PM
Both parties have fielded a weak line-up for the past decade and more.
I think 2008 was strong: Clinton v Obama and McCain, Giuliani, Romney and Huckabee. 2012 and 2004 were weak, 2000 was sadly a bit fixed rather than weak. '92 seems impressive to me too.
I think the Republicans have stars in 2016, especially Christie, Ryan and Rubio.
And the Dems could field Cuomo, O'Malley, Mark Warner from Virginia, and there's always Hillary.
I really don't think Ryan would be the kind of GOP candidate that could succeed in a general election on his own; he's Rick Santorum on the P90X program, without the sweater vest.
So now that it's proven once again that moderates can't win, we're gonna have to deal with nominee Santorum?
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 07, 2012, 12:05:10 AM
So now that it's proven once again that moderates can't win, we're gonna have to deal with nominee Santorum?
It was also proven that the far-right candidate can't win. At least if they talk about rape.
Quote from: Liep on November 07, 2012, 12:06:31 AM
It was also proven that the far-right candidate can't win. At least if they talk about rape.
It's not talking about rape that's the problem, it's the idiotic qualifying of rape that's the problem.
Quote from: Liep on November 07, 2012, 12:06:31 AM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 07, 2012, 12:05:10 AM
So now that it's proven once again that moderates can't win, we're gonna have to deal with nominee Santorum?
It was also proven that the far-right candidate can't win. At least if they talk about rape.
To be fair I think that's basic politics. Whether you're left-wing or right-wing if you're running for office there's a few words you shouldn't ever say in the last 4 weeks of a campaign. 'Rape' is one of them. 'Hitler' is another. Just avoid the subject.
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 07, 2012, 12:13:36 AM
Quote from: Liep on November 07, 2012, 12:06:31 AM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 07, 2012, 12:05:10 AM
So now that it's proven once again that moderates can't win, we're gonna have to deal with nominee Santorum?
It was also proven that the far-right candidate can't win. At least if they talk about rape.
To be fair I think that's basic politics. Whether you're left-wing or right-wing if you're running for office there's a few words you shouldn't ever say in the last 4 weeks of a campaign. 'Rape' is one of them. 'Hitler' is another. Just avoid the subject.
What if you wish rape on Hitler?
Quote from: katmai on November 07, 2012, 12:14:34 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 07, 2012, 12:13:36 AM
Quote from: Liep on November 07, 2012, 12:06:31 AM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 07, 2012, 12:05:10 AM
So now that it's proven once again that moderates can't win, we're gonna have to deal with nominee Santorum?
It was also proven that the far-right candidate can't win. At least if they talk about rape.
To be fair I think that's basic politics. Whether you're left-wing or right-wing if you're running for office there's a few words you shouldn't ever say in the last 4 weeks of a campaign. 'Rape' is one of them. 'Hitler' is another. Just avoid the subject.
What if you wish rape on Hitler?
You sick homo-necrophiliac bastard.
See. It never ends well.
My family is surprisingly quiet on FB. Only my nephew is happy he gets deployed to Guam and away from the government, and my brother in law says Obama's win is a victory of popularity over substance and that voters ignored his failings.
I expect a slew of "funny" graphics to be posted during the day, though.
Quote from: Syt on November 07, 2012, 12:31:11 AM
My family is surprisingly quiet on FB. Only my nephew is happy he gets deployed to Guam and away from the government, and my brother in law says Obama's win is a victory of popularity over substance and that voters ignored his failings.
I expect a slew of "funny" graphics to be posted during the day, though.
Guam? He does know the Territories are Federal Jurisdiction right? Of course wherever he goes is Federal Jurisdiction.
Yeah, I figured he meant physical distance between him and DC.
Bah.
It seems aside from the presidential race that Oregon has voted for legalising weed whilst Maine has legalised same sex marraige.
Smart move by the US to keep the gays and the drugs squarely on opposite sides of the country. :P
Quote from: Tyr on November 07, 2012, 12:52:32 AM
It seems aside from the presidential race that Oregon has voted for legalising weed whilst Maine has legalised same sex marraige.
Smart move by the US to keep the gays and the drugs squarely on opposite sides of the country. :P
Not Oregon, but Colorado. Oregon had a ballot measure to legalize pot but it failed. Washington legalized pot and gays. :ph34r:
Quote from: sbr on November 07, 2012, 01:02:50 AM
Quote from: Tyr on November 07, 2012, 12:52:32 AM
It seems aside from the presidential race that Oregon has voted for legalising weed whilst Maine has legalised same sex marraige.
Smart move by the US to keep the gays and the drugs squarely on opposite sides of the country. :P
Not Oregon, but Colorado. Oregon had a ballot measure to legalize pot but it failed. Washington legalized pot and gays. :ph34r:
Now i understand why Neil hates the state so.
I told you guys this would not be that close.
@katmai. There are plenty of other reason to hate Washington: Seattle, rain, traffic, sales tax, huskies. Gays and pot are nothing compared to those abominations.
Quote from: sbr on November 07, 2012, 01:15:33 AM
@katmai. There are plenty of other reason to hate Washington: Seattle, rain, traffic, sales tax, huskies. Gays and pot are nothing compared to those abominations.
Motherfucker ! :moon:
My prediction before the debate was closer, I think, than what it looks like the final result will be. In an odd way this reminds me of 2008. Every other day there was a 'shift in the momentum' in the Clinton-Obama race. But, ultimately, it came down to the predictable demographics of the states and the organisations there.
Quote from: Count on November 06, 2012, 07:21:18 PM
My prediction: O wins every swing state but NC
:yeah:
i mean I was just using Nate Silver, but still
Quote from: Berkut on November 07, 2012, 01:11:29 AM
I told you guys this would not be that close.
The result is close, but not really in doubt.
The vaunted Obama campaign proved its worth tonight. Very impressive. :o
While Romney came up short, I am satisfied with his campaigning compared to McCain. Republicans actually became excited by him. But that's a low bar to hop over. Obama's only major mistake was the first debate. Romney's were many.
And electorally, he only flipped Indiana and North Carolina, of which the latter was quite close. Only Romney surprise of the night? He managed to achieve a 4-point margin loss in Minnesota (as of current counting). But that's a pitifully poor consolation prize. Romney underperformed in all the swing states.
Women won the night tonight. They were a whopping 54% of the electorate. With women's growing advantage in income and education, male candidates offend them at their peril, as shown by idiot Republican "rape" candidate losers Todd Akin of Missouri (lost by 15 points) and Richard Mourdock of Indiana (lost by 6 points).
Along with the rise of women, this election may also symbolize the last hurrah of white voters. They supported Romney by 20 points, but their share of the electorate declined once again. President Obama won blacks, Hispanics, and Asians by huge margins.
Finally, I will repost my analysis from yesterday of why voters would narrowly keep Obama for another term:
I give Obama a 75% likelihood of winning the election. The latter two debates slowed Romney's momentum, and Hurricane Sandy put a break on the campaign while boosting the President in a non-partisan coming together moment. Further, short-term economic indicators have held up with unemployment rate still under 8%, housing stabilizing, consumer spending up, and the Dow above 13000.
Major non-President winners from tonight? Paul Ryan and Nate Silver.
Quote from: Phillip V on November 07, 2012, 01:52:25 AM
The vaunted Obama campaign proved its worth tonight. Very impressive. :o
While Romney came up short, I am satisfied with his campaigning compared to McCain. Republicans actually became excited by him. But that's a low bar to hop over. Obama's only major mistake was the first debate. Romney's were many.
And electorally, he only flipped Indiana and North Carolina, of which the latter was quite close. Only Romney surprise of the night? He managed to achieve a 4-point margin loss in Minnesota (as of current counting). But that's a pitifully poor consolation prize. Romney underperformed in all the swing states.
Women won the night tonight. They were a whopping 54% of the electorate. With women's growing advantage in income and education, male candidates offend them at their peril, as shown by idiot Republican "rape" candidate losers Todd Akin of Missouri (lost by 15 points) and Richard Mourdock of Indiana (lost by 6 points).
Along with the rise of women, this election may also symbolize the last hurrah of white voters. They supported Romney by 20 points, but their share of the electorate declined once again. President Obama won blacks, Hispanics, and Asians by huge margins.
Finally, I will repost my analysis from yesterday of why voters would narrowly keep Obama for another term:
I give Obama a 75% likelihood of winning the election. The latter two debates slowed Romney's momentum, and Hurricane Sandy put a break on the campaign while boosting the President in a non-partisan coming together moment. Further, short-term economic indicators have held up with unemployment rate still under 8%, housing stabilizing, consumer spending up, and the Dow above 13000.
Major non-President winners from tonight? Paul Ryan and Nate Silver.
yeah man mainly the polls were essentially accurate
Apparently the entire Latino demographics in Utah (aka "Jaron") voted for Obama.
Quote from: Count on November 07, 2012, 02:00:58 AM
yeah man mainly the polls were essentially accurate
No. Florida was supposed to lean Romney, and North Carolina was supposed to be a comfortable Romney win.
In supposed swing states of Iowa, Nevada, and New Hampshire, Obama won decisive 5 and 6-point wins. Minnesota and Wisconsin ended up having tighter results than those states.
Quote from: Martinus on November 07, 2012, 02:01:36 AM
Apparently the entire Latino demographics in Utah (aka "Jaron") voted for Obama.
Not according to him he didn't.
Quote from: Phillip V on November 07, 2012, 02:05:34 AM
Quote from: Count on November 07, 2012, 02:00:58 AM
yeah man mainly the polls were essentially accurate
No. Florida was supposed to lean Romney, and North Carolina was supposed to be a comfortable Romney win.
In supposed swing states of Iowa, Nevada, and New Hampshire, Obama won decisive 5 and 6-point wins. Minnesota and Wisconsin ended up having tighter results than those states.
from what I saw Obama was a tiny tiny tiny favorite in Florida (so it was essentially tied), he was favored in Virginia, and was a slight underdog in North Carolina. So Obama won by a bit more in Florida than he was expected to and did a little better or worse in some other states but again, essentially the polls were accurate.
ed: nate silver called every state, which essentially means that a weighted average of the polls called every state
Quote from: Phillip V on November 07, 2012, 01:52:25 AM
Major non-President winners from tonight? Paul Ryan and Nate Silver.
Nate Silver didn't get a busload of nuns after his ass. Only baseball fans.
Paul Ryan will not survive this a national figure. He'll be a Tea Party darling for the immediate future, but he's been exposed as far too right for a general election.
Quote from: Zoupa on November 06, 2012, 12:28:19 AM
Voila. I gave Obama Missouri for shits and giggles, since it's semi-close there. NC also, why not.
:nelson:
Quote from: Zoupa on November 07, 2012, 02:43:13 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on November 06, 2012, 12:28:19 AM
Voila. I gave Obama Missouri for shits and giggles, since it's semi-close there. NC also, why not.
:nelson:
your Nelsoning your own wrong assumptions Zoups? :huh:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 07, 2012, 02:39:23 AM
Quote from: Phillip V on November 07, 2012, 01:52:25 AM
Major non-President winners from tonight? Paul Ryan and Nate Silver.
Nate Silver didn't get a busload of nuns after his ass. Only baseball fans.
Paul Ryan will not survive this a national figure. He'll be a Tea Party darling for the immediate future, but he's been exposed as far too right for a general election.
I am not saying that Ryan is now some new megastar future President. Merely that 2012 was a net positive for him. He has a boatload of new experience and raised profile. He can continue to put that to work in Congress and other endeavors.
Quote from: katmai on November 07, 2012, 02:44:42 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on November 07, 2012, 02:43:13 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on November 06, 2012, 12:28:19 AM
Voila. I gave Obama Missouri for shits and giggles, since it's semi-close there. NC also, why not.
:nelson:
your Nelsoning your own wrong assumptions Zoups? :huh:
I put MO and NC in blue as a joke, and predicted every other state right. All hail me. :P
I was mostly Nelsoning at the derfetus of Languish, raging in silence over the reelection of the marxist muslim niggar.
He was so upset he left the country. :D
Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota looks to be joining Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts and the first openly gay and female senator-elect Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin in the U.S. Senate. In addition to Senator Claire McCaskill's victory over crazy rapist candidate Todd Akin of Missouri, this was indeed a powerful night for women.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.realclearpolitics.com%2Fepolls%2Fimages%2F19806.jpg&hash=e042fe90f118d2be86cef4c8b8b9c67ffd1268d0) (https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.realclearpolitics.com%2Fepolls%2Fimages%2F17990.jpg&hash=b05fa6fd989e0346886c3e1503f12ce14f941b4d) (https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.realclearpolitics.com%2Fepolls%2Fimages%2F18425.jpg&hash=f5cf24b4a05a1b993930a2525c70ca9527271ddc) (https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.realclearpolitics.com%2Fepolls%2Fimages%2F17945.jpg&hash=5ebfc1df6840e988131c288e06b9274d5a2d2312)
Unfortunately, despite leading by large margins in recent polls, Mia Love failed to become the first black female U.S. Representative from Utah. She is currently serving as the first black female mayor in that state.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.realclearpolitics.com%2Fepolls%2Fimages%2F19361.jpg&hash=239b3c1eb10532ba09cf90b55c395230c4d6d01e)
In a separate House race, you forgot Tammy Duckworth beating that completely misogynist douchebag Joe Walsh in Illinois.
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 07, 2012, 12:13:36 AM
To be fair I think that's basic politics. Whether you're left-wing or right-wing if you're running for office there's a few words you shouldn't ever say in the last 4 weeks of a campaign. 'Rape' is one of them. 'Hitler' is another. Just avoid the subject.
Generally speaking, though, the extreme candidates in either direction are more prone to talk about Hitler rape. That should be clearly visible for the republicans too.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 07, 2012, 03:24:39 AM
In a separate House race, you forgot Tammy Duckworth beating that completely misogynist douchebag Joe Walsh in Illinois.
The eagle?
From Iowa Straw Poll Winner to Grasping At Straws?
With 93% of precincts reporting, Congresswoman Michele Bachmann is only leading by 2000 votes. Will the fiery former Presidential candidate meet her end?
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.realclearpolitics.com%2Fepolls%2Fimages%2F20607.jpg&hash=fea82ba96d610a93d093074a06eab70dfd1c43d4)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 07, 2012, 03:24:39 AM
In a separate House race, you forgot Tammy Duckworth beating that completely misogynist douchebag Joe Walsh in Illinois.
Losing a race against a woman with no legs. Tsk, tsk.
Quote from: Zoupa on November 07, 2012, 02:51:54 AM
I was mostly Nelsoning at the derfetus of Languish, raging in silence over the reelection of the marxist muslim niggar.
It is odd when you take a look at those likely to use racial epithets on this board.
Quote from: garbon on November 07, 2012, 07:55:20 AM
Quote from: Zoupa on November 07, 2012, 02:51:54 AM
I was mostly Nelsoning at the derfetus of Languish, raging in silence over the reelection of the marxist muslim niggar.
It is odd when you take a look at those likely to use racial epithets on this board.
Why you gotta bash the European Jew haters so early?
You're not immune from my critique.
Come to Maryland and get legally married. I know the perfect guy for you. He's thin.
Was there supposed to be anything in that post that was compelling? :unsure:
I'm basking in the sunshine of my state's enlightened, progressive dawn.
One thing about your elections I find odd is the winner take all thing. For instance in a state with say 20 electoral votes, if I win by one single vote, I get all 20 electoral votes. Not exactly representative of the state is it?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 07, 2012, 08:22:44 AM
I'm basking in the sunshine of my state's enlightened, progressive dawn.
Well I'm not interested and you aren't thin. :P
Quote from: Josephus on November 07, 2012, 08:26:38 AM
One thing about your elections I find odd is the winner take all thing. For instance in a state with say 20 electoral votes, if I win by one single vote, I get all 20 electoral votes. Not exactly representative of the state is it?
Gee, I'm glad you pointed it out. Somehow, no one else had managed to notice it in the last 200 years or so.
Quote from: garbon on November 07, 2012, 08:31:25 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 07, 2012, 08:22:44 AM
I'm basking in the sunshine of my state's enlightened, progressive dawn.
Well I'm not interested and you aren't thin. :P
I know. :(
Quote from: Josephus on November 07, 2012, 08:26:38 AM
One thing about your elections I find odd is the winner take all thing. For instance in a state with say 20 electoral votes, if I win by one single vote, I get all 20 electoral votes. Not exactly representative of the state is it?
The Electoral College ceased largely to matter when it became illegal to vote out of their designated mandates for most Electors.
Bah. I made my prediction before Nate Silver updated Florida to lean ever-so-slightly Obama.
Quote from: Drakken on November 07, 2012, 08:50:06 AM
Quote from: Josephus on November 07, 2012, 08:26:38 AM
One thing about your elections I find odd is the winner take all thing. For instance in a state with say 20 electoral votes, if I win by one single vote, I get all 20 electoral votes. Not exactly representative of the state is it?
The Electoral College ceased largely to matter when it became illegal to vote out of their designated mandates for most Electors.
Slightly less than half the states have laws making it a illegal to be a faithless elector and for most of our history, faithless electors haven't changed much.
Quote from: Phillip V on November 07, 2012, 01:52:25 AM
Along with the rise of women, this election may also symbolize the last hurrah of white voters.
What are you talking about? My candidate won. :yeah:
Quote from: Ideologue on November 07, 2012, 08:56:10 AM
Quote from: Phillip V on November 07, 2012, 01:52:25 AM
Along with the rise of women, this election may also symbolize the last hurrah of white voters.
What are you talking about? My candidate won. :yeah:
Which has little to do with his statement. :P
Quote from: dps on November 07, 2012, 08:31:34 AM
Quote from: Josephus on November 07, 2012, 08:26:38 AM
One thing about your elections I find odd is the winner take all thing. For instance in a state with say 20 electoral votes, if I win by one single vote, I get all 20 electoral votes. Not exactly representative of the state is it?
Gee, I'm glad you pointed it out. Somehow, no one else had managed to notice it in the last 200 years or so.
I didn't say it was an original thought. I just said it was stupid.
Quote from: Phillip V on November 07, 2012, 01:52:25 AM
Major non-President winners from tonight? Paul Ryan and Nate Silver.
No so.
The most significant non-Presidential winner is Ben Bernanke, assuming he wants to accept his reappointment.
I guess the optimal strategy was to just follow 538 (which I tried to do, but then he switched around FL on me at the last minute).
I would like to deeply thank all Americans for having reelected Obama, thus showing their commitment to a mutilateral, cooperative US.
That said, Portugal and Greece will need new bailouts and Spain also requires one. The EU alone can't afford it all, so the IMF will have to chip in. The US under Obama will be more willing to hand over the billions needed, so this is very good for us.
So, thank you very much to all and start forking over your tax dollars *stretches palm*
:lol: Nice post, brown Mart.
Quote from: Martim Silva on November 07, 2012, 10:33:42 AM
I would like to deeply thank all Americans for having reelected Obama, thus showing their commitment to a mutilateral, cooperative US.
That said, Portugal and Greece will need new bailouts and Spain also requires one. The EU alone can't afford it all, so the IMF will have to chip in. The US under Obama will be more willing to hand over the billions needed, so this is very good for us.
So, thank you very much to all and start forking over your tax dollars *stretches palm*
I suggest you rethink this plan, and start taking crash courses in Mandarin ASAP.
Quote from: DGuller on November 07, 2012, 08:51:10 AM
Bah. I made my prediction before Nate Silver updated Florida to lean ever-so-slightly Obama.
Florida didn't matter. The race was called before Florida was.
Quote from: Maximus on November 07, 2012, 01:52:38 PM
Quote from: DGuller on November 07, 2012, 08:51:10 AM
Bah. I made my prediction before Nate Silver updated Florida to lean ever-so-slightly Obama.
Florida didn't matter. The race was called before Florida was.
It didn't matter for Obama. It mattered for my prediction.
Quote from: Drakken on November 07, 2012, 08:50:06 AM
Quote from: Josephus on November 07, 2012, 08:26:38 AM
One thing about your elections I find odd is the winner take all thing. For instance in a state with say 20 electoral votes, if I win by one single vote, I get all 20 electoral votes. Not exactly representative of the state is it?
The Electoral College ceased largely to matter when it became illegal to vote out of their designated mandates for most Electors.
Didn't an elector vote for Edwards in 2004?
Quote from: katmai on November 07, 2012, 01:05:37 AM
Quote from: sbr on November 07, 2012, 01:02:50 AM
Quote from: Tyr on November 07, 2012, 12:52:32 AM
It seems aside from the presidential race that Oregon has voted for legalising weed whilst Maine has legalised same sex marraige.
Smart move by the US to keep the gays and the drugs squarely on opposite sides of the country. :P
Not Oregon, but Colorado. Oregon had a ballot measure to legalize pot but it failed. Washington legalized pot and gays. :ph34r:
Now i understand why Neil hates the state so.
I thought he just had an obsessive, unnamed hatred towards Spokane.
Well, since the election is over, I now have a new task. Lay off 15% of my staff. Yay. :(
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 07, 2012, 08:43:23 PM
Well, since the election is over, I now have a new task. Lay off 15% of my staff. Yay. :(
:hmm:
Quote from: Caliga on November 07, 2012, 08:44:35 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 07, 2012, 08:43:23 PM
Well, since the election is over, I now have a new task. Lay off 15% of my staff. Yay. :(
:hmm:
Obama's America :(
Quote from: Josephus on November 07, 2012, 09:38:03 AM
Quote from: dps on November 07, 2012, 08:31:34 AM
Quote from: Josephus on November 07, 2012, 08:26:38 AM
One thing about your elections I find odd is the winner take all thing. For instance in a state with say 20 electoral votes, if I win by one single vote, I get all 20 electoral votes. Not exactly representative of the state is it?
Gee, I'm glad you pointed it out. Somehow, no one else had managed to notice it in the last 200 years or so.
I didn't say it was an original thought. I just said it was stupid.
Well, yes, the latter term does generally better describe your thoughts.
Oooh...such a clever retort. Wish I had your smarts.
Quote from: Josephus on November 07, 2012, 10:07:14 PM
Oooh...such a clever retort. Wish I had your smarts.
Could have fooled me--you seem so happy with being stupid.
No actually I was being sarcastic. See, your problem is comprehension.
Quote from: Josephus on November 07, 2012, 10:13:31 PM
No actually I was being sarcastic. See, your problem is comprehension.
No, I knew you were being sarcastic. It simply amused me and served my interests to take your statement at face value.
My problem isn't comprehension; it's that I'm an asshole.
You're a boring asshole, the worst kind.
Quote from: dps on November 07, 2012, 10:23:26 PM
My problem isn't comprehension; it's that I'm an asshole.
I don't often agree with you, but I would in this case. :)
Quote from: Zoupa on November 07, 2012, 10:25:43 PM
You're a boring asshole, the worst kind.
Yes, if you're going to be an asshole, be a vibrant and colorful one. Like me.