So Mitt was a dick back in the day. Does this matter?
Apology was kinda weak, but the way the GOP is today he couldn't offer a better one even if he wants to.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mitt-romneys-prep-school-classmates-recall-pranks-but-also-troubling-incidents/2012/05/10/gIQA3WOKFU_story.html
QuoteMitt Romney's prep school classmates recall pranks, but also troubling incidents
BLOOMFIELD HILLS, Mich. — Mitt Romney returned from a three-week spring break in 1965 to resume his studies as a high school senior at the prestigious Cranbrook School. Back on the handsome campus, studded with Tudor brick buildings and manicured fields, he spotted something he thought did not belong at a school where the boys wore ties and carried briefcases. John Lauber, a soft-spoken new student one year behind Romney, was perpetually teased for his nonconformity and presumed homosexuality. Now he was walking around the all-boys school with bleached-blond hair that draped over one eye, and Romney wasn't having it.
"He can't look like that. That's wrong. Just look at him!" an incensed Romney told Matthew Friedemann, his close friend in the Stevens Hall dorm, according to Friedemann's recollection. Mitt, the teenage son of Michigan Gov. George Romney, kept complaining about Lauber's look, Friedemann recalled.
A few days later, Friedemann entered Stevens Hall off the school's collegiate quad to find Romney marching out of his own room ahead of a prep school posse shouting about their plan to cut Lauber's hair. Friedemann followed them to a nearby room where they came upon Lauber, tackled him and pinned him to the ground. As Lauber, his eyes filling with tears, screamed for help, Romney repeatedly clipped his hair with a pair of scissors.
The incident was recalled similarly by five students, who gave their accounts independently of one another. Four of them — Friedemann, now a dentist; Phillip Maxwell, a lawyer; Thomas Buford, a retired prosecutor; and David Seed, a retired principal — spoke on the record. Another former student who witnessed the incident asked not to be identified. The men have differing political affiliations, although they mostly lean Democratic. Buford volunteered for Barack Obama's campaign in 2008. Seed, a registered independent, has served as a Republican county chairman in Michigan. All of them said that politics in no way colored their recollections.
"It happened very quickly, and to this day it troubles me," said Buford, the school's wrestling champion, who said he joined Romney in restraining Lauber. Buford subsequently apologized to Lauber, who was "terrified," he said. "What a senseless, stupid, idiotic thing to do."
"It was a hack job," recalled Maxwell, a childhood friend of Romney who was in the dorm room when the incident occurred. "It was vicious."
"He was just easy pickin's," said Friedemann, then the student prefect, or student authority leader of Stevens Hall, expressing remorse about his failure to stop it.
The incident transpired in a flash, and Friedemann said Romney then led his cheering schoolmates back to his bay-windowed room in Stevens Hall.
Friedemann, guilt ridden, made a point of not talking about it with his friend and waited to see what form of discipline would befall Romney at the famously strict institution. Nothing happened.
Romney is now the presumed Republican presidential nominee. His campaign spokeswoman, Andrea Saul, said in a statement that "anyone who knows Mitt Romney knows that he doesn't have a mean-spirited bone in his body. The stories of fifty years ago seem exaggerated and off base and Governor Romney has no memory of participating in these incidents."
Campaign officials denied a request for an interview with Romney. They also declined to comment further about his years at Cranbrook.
In a subsequent interview Thursday morning with Fox News Channel, Romney said he didn't remember the incident but apologized for pranks he helped orchestrate that he said "might have gone too far."
After the incident, Lauber seemed to disappear. He returned days later with his shortened hair back to its natural brown. He finished the year but ultimately left the school before graduation — thrown out for smoking a cigarette.
Sometime in the mid-1990s, David Seed noticed a familiar face at the end of a bar at Chicago O'Hare International Airport.
"Hey, you're John Lauber," Seed recalled saying at the start of a brief conversation. Seed, also among those who witnessed the Romney-led incident, had gone on to a career as a teacher and principal. Now he had something to get off his chest.
"I'm sorry that I didn't do more to help in the situation," he said.
Lauber paused, then responded, "It was horrible." He went on to explain how frightened he was during the incident, and acknowledged to Seed, "It's something I have thought about a lot since then."
Lauber died in 2004, according to his three sisters.
Romney came of age during his six years at Cranbrook. First as a day student and later as a full-time boarder, he embraced and became emblematic of the Cranbrook way — a strict disciplinary code and academic rigor that governed the school by day and a free-wheeling unofficial boys code of "Crannies" at night. Wherever the action was, so was Romney. He wrote the most letters to the girls at the sister school across the lake and successfully petitioned to get placed in the top classes. He was not a natural athlete but found his place among the jocks by managing the hockey team and leading megaphone cheers for the football team. Although a devout Mormon, one of the few at the school, he was less defined by his faith than at any other time in his life. He was a member of 11 school organizations, including the Spectators' Club and the homecoming committee, and started the school's booster outfit, the Blue Key Club.
It was at Cranbrook where he first lived on his own, found his future wife and made his own decisions. One can see the institution's influence on his demeanor and actions during those years, but also how it helped form the clubbiness and earnestness, the sense of leadership and enthusiasm, apparent in his careers as a businessman and a politician. "He strongly bought in to community service," said Richard Moon, a schoolmate at the time. "That hard work was its own reward." What is less visible today is what was most apparent to his prep-school peers: his jocularity.
Now, nearly half a century later, Romney's presidential campaign has turned to the candidate's youthful antics as evidence of his capacity for harmless, humanizing pranks and as an indication of his looser, less wooden self.
"There's a wild and crazy man inside of there just waiting to come out," Romney's wife, Ann — a graduate of Cranbrook's sister school, Kingswood — attested in a television interview this month, evoking what she saw as his endearing and fun-loving prep-school persona. Many of Romney's peers from his high school days echo that version of the candidate, describing him as the humble son of an automobile executive-turned-governor who volunteered at the nearby mental hospital. They recall an infectious laugh, a characterization first documented in his senior yearbook.
"If you should ever by chance be walking down the [Stevens Hall] corridor at 2:00 a.m. and hear rising tones of boisterous, exuberant laughter, you are almost sure to find its source is Mitt Romney," the yearbook reported. "A quiet joke, a panicky laughter and another of the Friedemann-Romney all-night marathon contests has begun."
But Friedemann and several people closest to Romney in those formative years say there was a sharp edge to him. In an English class, Gary Hummel, who was a closeted gay student at the time, recalled that his efforts to speak out in class were punctuated with Romney shouting, "Atta girl!" In the culture of that time and place, that was not entirely out of the norm. Hummel recalled some teachers using similar language.
Saul, Romney's campaign spokeswoman, said the candidate has no recollection of the incident.
Teachers were also the butt of Romney's brand of humor.
One venerable English teacher, Carl G. Wonnberger, nicknamed "the Bat" for his diminished eyesight, was known to walk into the trophy case and apologize, step into wastepaper baskets and stare blindly as students slipped out the back of the room to smoke by the open windows. Once, several students remembered the time pranksters propped up the back axle of Wonnberger's Volkswagen Beetle with two-by-fours and watched, laughing from the windows, as the unwitting teacher slammed the gas pedal with his wheels spinning in the air.
As an underclassman, Romney accompanied Wonnberger and Pierce Getsinger, another student, from the second floor of the main academic building to the library to retrieve a book the two boys needed. According to Getsinger, Romney opened a first set of doors for Wonnberger, but then at the next set, with other students around, he swept his hand forward, bidding the teacher into a closed door. Wonnberger walked right into it and Getsinger said Romney giggled hysterically as the teacher shrugged it off as another of life's indignities.
"I always enjoyed his pranks," said Stu White, a popular friend of Romney's who went on to a career as a public school teacher and said he has been "disturbed" by the Lauber incident since hearing about it several weeks ago, before being contacted by The Washington Post. "But I was not the brunt of any of his pranks."
In later years, after Romney went on a Mormon mission, married and raised five sons, he seemed a different person to some old classmates. "Mitt began to change as a person when he met Ann Davies. He gradually became a more serious person. She was part of the process of him maturing and becoming more of the person he is today," said Jim Bailey, who was a classmate of Romney's at Cranbrook and later at Harvard.
* * *
By the 1950s, George and Lenore Romney had cracked the Motor City firmament and made their home in the exclusive enclave of Bloomfield Hills. When it came to educating their children, the clear choice was Cranbrook.
Built in 1927 by George Booth, publisher of the Detroit News, and named after his father's alma mater in Kent, England, Cranbrook stood out as an architectural gem in the Michigan woods. Modeled on British boarding schools with "forms" instead of grades, "prefects" instead of RAs, "masters" instead of teachers, it also boasted the work of famed Finnish architect Eliel Saarinen. Cranbrook had all the trappings of an elite school where kids walked around like junior executives and, as Tom Elliott, Class of 1966, recalled, learned mantras such as, "Remember who you are, and what you represent."
"If you went to Cranbrook," said a classmate, Peter "the Bird" Werbel. "You were creme de la creme."
The Romney children walked under arches reading "A Life Without Beauty Is Only Half Lived"; past a field overlooked by Greek-style sculptures where the Detroit Lions practiced; and then a statuette of the school's symbol, the archer from Book V of Virgil's "Aeneid," who "aimed an arrow high." (In the mug honoring Romney's Class of 1965, a naked woman replaced the aiming archer.) They looked out of leaded-glass windows in the academic buildings, crossed the spruce-spotted quad lined with modernist fountains and sleek statues of coursing hounds. They studied in reading rooms featuring frescoes and marble friezes. In the chandeliered dining room, students waited on fellow students and sat on straight-backed spindle chairs bearing the school's insignia of a proud crane. After dinner, they wiped their mouths with cloth napkins.
In 1959, Mitt Romney enrolled at Cranbrook as a 12-year-old seventh-grader.
For the most part, the school broke down along the usual lines of jocks and brains, popular kids and introverts, all trained with the expectation of joining the next generation's elite. The students gave one another chummy nicknames. There was Moonie and Butch, the Kraut and Flip. Romney, his name short to begin with, was playfully teased with chants of Wiiillard, Wiiillard by his friends.
Ron Sill, a Romney classmate especially attuned to the counterculture of the 1960s, rolled his eyes at the dance instruction and lessons on how to hold a teacup and properly shake a man's hand. He preferred to listen to folk music in the coffee shops of neighboring Birmingham. Taro Yamasaki, the son of the architect of the World Trade Center and several Bloomfield Hills houses, then went by the name Michael and encountered what he called a "veiled racism." "I was a linebacker in football," said Yamasaki, who went on to become a Pulitzer Prize-winning photographer. "And the coaches would call me Kamikaze." Sidney Barthwell, the son of a prominent Detroit pharmacist, was the only African American student in Romney's class from the seventh through 12th grades. Now a Detroit magistrate, he said he tried to introduce some west Detroit swagger to the school, but it was, he said, "pretty Republican and pretty WASP-y."
There was a significant Jewish contingent, and several of those students said they never sensed any obvious prejudice. During Romney's tenure, there were also Middle Eastern exchange students, usually from Kuwait.
Abdulhadi M. al-Awadi, a Kuwaiti student, had fond memories of the school and the respect and special attention he received from teachers. He recalled Romney as the "son of Governor Romney" who was "very sociable." When some students put up pictures of Israeli statesman David Ben-Gurion in the hallway near his room, he did not believe it was meant intentionally to offend him, but he was bothered by it. "It's human nature. But they did it. That's their right."
Faisel F. al-Abduljadir, a Kuwaiti student spending his senior year at Cranbrook in part to improve his English, said the teachers and students went out of their way to treat him with respect, showing consideration for his celebration of Ramadan and bathing requirements. But he acknowledged being "angry" about a caption under his picture in the senior yearbook that read, "Take a left at the next Synagogue."
Religion was not much of an issue for the students. There was mandatory chapel time on Tuesdays and Thursdays when they sang Episcopalian hymns and the school song, "Forty Years On," but it was studiously nondenominational. The campus's elegant Christ Church had a Star of David, an Islamic crescent, and yin-and-yang sign above its wooden door. The Mormon Romney joined Jews and Protestants on Cranbrook's Church Cabinet, which focused on community service.
Some students admired Romney for what they saw as his lack of airs, saying he did not trade on his father's status as an auto executive and governor. Romney even came in for teasing because American Motors, the company his father ran, was considered at the bottom rung of the big-auto hierarchy, below General Motors, Ford and Chrysler.
"Boys in a boys' school can tease and make fun of almost anything," said Bailey, a scholarship student and head prefect of the school who described Romney at the time as an awkward adolescent with a penchant for practical jokes. The children of other auto executives would taunt Romney for the Ramblers he and his father drove. "That's not a car, that's a bicycle with a dishwasher for an engine," Bailey recalled them saying.
Others noticed a distance between themselves and Romney. "I was a scholarship student, and he was the son of the governor," said Lance Leithauser, now a doctor, who attended the school with his brother, Brad, now a noted poet. "There was a bit of a gulf." Even a close pal like Friedemann felt that distance; their friendship was confined to the dorms. When Romney left the campus on weekends, he never invited him. "I didn't quite fit into the social circle. I didn't have a car when I was 16," Friedemann said. "I couldn't go skiing or whatever they did."
Lou Vierling, a scholarship student who boarded at Cranbrook for the 1960 and 1961 academic years, was struck by a question Romney asked them when they first met. "He wanted to know what my father did for a living," Vierling recalled. "He wanted to know if my mother worked. He wanted to know what town I lived in." As Vierling explained that his father taught school, that he commuted from east Detroit, he noticed a souring of Romney's demeanor.
Romney was bowled over by the wealth of some of his friends. He briefly dated Mary Fisher, the daughter of the philanthropist and diplomat Max Fisher, who acted as a finance chairman to George Romney's political campaigns. At her house, he watched the James Bond film "Goldfinger" in the family's private theater before it was widely released. He reported excitedly back to Friedemann about the theater, noting that the seats even had numbers.
The largest chasm of all at Cranbrook was between the boarders and the "day boys." Students within the limits of Detroit's Eight Mile Road had the option to attend the school without boarding. The requirements for enrollment as a day student were generally tougher, leading day boys to consider themselves academically superior. Day boys also had the freedom to leave campus when school let out late in the afternoon. Often those with cars would gas up at nearby service stations, cruise Woodward Avenue and plot "how and where we could get some beer," said Gregg Dearth, who went by the nickname Daiquiri Dearth. Drugs were generally unheard of, but day boy parties often included someone downing beers or toting bottles of scotch.
Romney began his Cranbrook career as a day boy and quickly adapted to the school's unofficial code. He was prohibited by his religion from drinking alcohol but excelled at elaborate practical jokes.
During spring break of his senior year, when most of his friends went to Florida for vacation, Romney stayed behind to make movies for an upcoming Cranbrook talent show. For one, he filmed his friends Stu White and Judy Sherman seated at a table to dine on fine china on a Woodward Avenue median as their friend Pike John, now deceased, acted as the waiter. Romney filmed the luncheon until a police officer pulled up. "And that was it," Sherman said.
But in a well-known prank in which Romney flashed a police siren and, bearing a fake badge and cap, approached two friends and their dates parked on a dark country road, there was a stronger undercurrent of fear to the incident than commonly conveyed. Candy Porter, a Kingswood boarder from a small town in Ohio, had a strict 11 p.m. curfew. As Romney and his Cranbrook pals played out the joke, pretending to be shocked over empty bourbon bottles in the trunk, Porter thought of the dorm mothers waiting at the door and the threat of expulsion. "I just remember being like a deer in headlights," she said. "I just remember being terrified." Once she realized it was all a prank, and was safely back at her dorm, Porter joined in the laughter.
Romney's sense of humor ran through his family.
Sherman, a friend of the Romneys from high school, recalled Ann telling her about the time Romney and his older brother, Scott, dressed up in white coats and wheeled a gurney up to the Birmingham train station to meet their aunt. When she got off the train, they rushed her away as if to a madhouse.
Continued
Quote* * *
By the time Romney started dating Ann in his senior year, he had immersed himself into the Cranbrook culture. In 1962, when his father won the governorship and his parents moved to Lansing, he entered the boarding life as a resident of Stevens Hall, named after the school's first headmaster. From the inside, Cranbrook was an entirely different place.
"The day students," said Steph Lady, a boarder and now a screenwriter in Hollywood, "it was like they didn't even go there."
Romney breathed Cranbrook day and night.
He met the Kingswood girls at the Get Acquainted Dance in the school gym. There was the Chateau de Noel girl-ask-boy dance at Christmas, and the World A-Fair, in which students dressed up in the garb of other nations. He sang in the Glee Club and started the Blue Key Club, an organization of students who "know the campus and Cranbrook traditions well" and served as ambassador to parents and prospective students. The school newspaper noted that his "diligent and capable leadership" of the homecoming weekend, where he delivered a "brilliantly hilarious monologue," earned him a citation reserved for "students whose contributions to school life are often not fully recognized through already existing channels." He was co-chairman of the Speculators Club and played a leading role in the American Field Service, which helped bring foreign students to the campus. He also served a leadership role on a student cabinet organization and during his senior year took a bus with some Kingswood girls to volunteer at the nearby state mental hospital. There, he danced to spinning 45s and talked and ate chips with the young patients.
"His altruism was apparent then and is apparent now," said Candy Porter, who volunteered with Romney at the hospital. "I just remember him being really nice," said Mary Fisher.
Romney also found time to contribute to the school paper as a special correspondent at the funeral of President John F. Kennedy. "Mitt Romney Comments on Kennedy Funeral," read the front page headline on the Dec. 17, 1963, edition of the Crane. "Note: Personal comments and observations made by Mitt Romney in Washington, Nov. 25, 1963."
"The old Washington theory of relativity, briefly: one is important only until a bigger brass appears, was blatently [sic] obvious for whenever before have we had the top potentates of the world here to outrank our dignitaries? We all recall the day when we saw a senator of the like in some big, black limosine [sic] drive through our town. Most likely our mouths were hanging wide open as our Mommies and Daddies told us the man out there was a very important person who worked in Washington."
* * *
Even without extracurricular activities, Cranbrook demanded long days. The morning bell rang at 7 and breakfast was served in the dining hall at 7:30, coat and tie required. After breakfast, students returned to clean their rooms in anticipation of white-gloved senior prefects who scoured the bed frames for dust. After classes and study hall at 9:30, students could go beneath Stevens Hall to the school store, where the boys received letters, via an inter-school postal service, from the girls at Kingswood. Some were perfumed.
The letters Romney wrote were delivered to the Green Lobby in Kingswood. Around 10:15 every morning, the girls, all wearing saddle shoes, hoped to hear their names called amid walls of rich green tile, and banisters, benches and clocks all in the art deco style.
"The person who wrote the most consistently was Mitt," said Lyn Moon Shields, who dated Romney in the fall semester of 1964. Gentlemanly and fun, Romney was her best date in her six years at school. He called every evening and picked her up in his powder blue Rambler and drove her up and down Woodward Avenue on weekends, and to school dances where she wore blue-green formal dresses and he a dark suit and tie. "Things were so innocent," she said. "We kissed each other, I think Mitt would admit to that." One day, she said, Romney just stopped calling. He had taken an interest in a Kingswood sophomore. "They got intentional about their relationship very soon," Shields said of Mitt and Ann.
Like every other student, Romney completed a rigorous workload that made most college requirements seem easy by comparison. Between the seventh and eighth grades, the faculty selected a dozen or so students to enter an advanced-placement program. Romney at first was not among the chosen, and he objected. "He went into the headmaster and convinced him that 'I should be in this,' " John French, who had been friends with Romney since they served together as Cub Scouts, recalled Romney telling him. "He had gumption. He had his sights on what he wanted to achieve."
The time after class was set aside for sports. Romney was not a natural athlete, according to classmates. He wore the Cranbrook "C" on his white tank top as a cross-country runner, but the greatest impression he made in that pursuit was collapsing near the finish line during a meet — although his perseverance won him admiration and applause. He was more at home on the sidelines, cheering the football team on as a member of the Pep Club, chanting such cheers into a megaphone as "Iron them out. Iron them out. Smooooth."
He participated on the school's hockey team as its manager, lugging a duffle bag full of pucks and sticks. Dressed in suit and tie and three-quarter coat, he rode the bus with the uniformed players and kept stats in the coach's box at the cold outdoor rink. The team's senior year began with promise, but ended badly. The players took out their frustration on the ice, getting into brawls with Lakeview and Catholic Central. During one fight, Maxwell pulled the jersey over the head of an opposing player and pummeled away. Romney dashed onto the ice, slipping and sliding in his Brogan wingtips in an apparent attempt to break up the fight.
During the winter of Romney's sophomore year, the faculty assigned him and Maxwell to mop the floors of the academic halls, part of a World War II-era program meant to instill a work ethic in the students. During their six-week detail, the two old friends had long, rambling conversations about religion, and Maxwell pressed Romney on how he could believe in Mormonism.
As Maxwell later recalled their discussion, he asked Romney, "How can you believe that thing about the tablets?" referring to the divine gold tablets Mormons believe were discovered in New York and translated by Joseph Smith.
Romney, he said, responded, "What about the Virgin birth and the holy trinity?"
"I don't believe that, either," Maxwell responded. The discussions ultimately came down to a faith vs. reason equation.
"You simply have to have faith," Romney concluded.
"That's a cop-out," Maxwell said.
While there were seeds of Romney's future devoutness at Cranbrook, he was then more interested in goofing off. In the evenings, he cut loose with Friedemann, a scholarship kid from the small town of Romeo, dubbed the Kraut. The two boys stayed up late, joking around and racing mops like racehorses up and down the hallway.
One regular in the Stevens Hall revelry was the school's security guard, Chester. In police uniform, chubby and middle-aged, Chester would let Romney and Friedemann examine and play with his gun. In the student yearbook, Romney posed with his arm around Chester wearing thick black glasses, similar to those the guard wore, but also a ski hat and a silly Jerry Lewis expression. At the Swingin' Sweeney Dance, Romney pointed a toy gun under his chin as two girls shook hands in front of him. A photo of the pose ran in the yearbook above the caption, "Give a guy enough rope and he'll hang himself."
Romney spent months trying to convert Friedemann, the son of New Deal-worshiping Democrats, to the Republican Party. He asked to meet his friend's grandmother, so that he could convert her, too. "He talked politics all the time," Friedemann said. "It was more big government versus small government. He was a business guy back then."
Romney's political and personal idol, George Romney, was never far away. Once Crawford Elder, a student a year behind Romney, saw the governor in the basement under Stevens Hall getting a haircut from Everett Arthurs, the school barber and part-time bartender at faculty cocktail parties. When Ev, as he was widely known, dropped dead after a round of golf, Gov. Romney eulogized him at a tree dedication ceremony on the quad, a few steps away from his son's room.
* * *
After lights out, John Lauber often left his door open. Larry Olson and some other boarders would check for the hall monitor they called Sneaky Pete and slip into Lauber's room. From there, they would crawl out his window, climb over the bushes and scurry off campus to Lone Pine Road, where a pizza truck regularly parked. Sated, they would climb back through the window and check on the bottles of apple juice that they hoped fermenting grapes would turn into hard cider. Then Lauber and his friends played poker until the early morning.
When Lauber's younger sister, Betsy, visited the campus, she said she found him happy and sporting a preppy look. He took her to an off-campus party at a fellow student's house where they danced to Motown records and laughed.
But he was always a bit different from the rest. During breaks from school, he worked as a mortician's assistant. He spent more time devouring books than making friends in clubs.
"He was very quiet, not a jock," said Steph Lady. "Very soft-spoken. I know nothing, probably gay, but who knows. We were so stupid and naive. I know there was homosexuality there, but we didn't even have a word for it. And there was homophobia then, too."
On an overcast Saturday, David Craig, a senior prefect and day student, drove his car down Martell Drive along the school grounds and saw a figure duck into the hedges. He thought the person might be trespassing and stopped, only to find Lauber puffing on a cigarette. In a move that he said he later regretted as an excess of the "dorm trooper" mentality instilled by Cranbrook, Craig reported Lauber to the headmaster. Soon after, Lauber was expelled.
"He just disappeared," Lady said.
Sudden disappearances at Cranbrook were not unheard of. Students might pass a dorm neighbor on the way to class and come back hours later, with all their belongings gone and their beds stripped by maintenance staff. Bad behavior and bad grades were not tolerated.
Ben Snyder, who as an assistant headmaster later spearheaded the school's effort to recruit inner-city students, said Cranbrook in Romney's time "had its standards and applied them briskly when needed." As chairman of a group of faculty members and students who were in charge of discipline, he described a strict school in which offenders could be "dismissed, period." Snyder could not recall dealing with any transgressions involving Romney. "I wouldn't expect to see him," Snyder said of the disciplinary tribunals. "The family was so straight, they don't do those types of things."
On June 12, 1965, Romney concluded his Cranbrook career at a commencement ceremony at the Christ Church, in which his father delivered a keynote address reported on by the local papers.
"This is a special occasion for us as a family," George Romney told the gathered boys before emphasizing that religion and "the one girlfriend whom you finally take the greatest interest in" and good health habits were critical for a successful life. So, he said, was character. "Developing character is going to be more important than your education from now on." The ceremony concluded with all the boys singing a final rendition of their school song, "Forty Years On."
Forty years on, when afar and asunder
Parted are those who are singing today,
When you look back, and forgetfully wonder
What you were like in your work and your play,
Then, it may be, there will often come o'er you,
Glimpses of notes like the catch of a song –
Visions of boyhood shall float them before you,
Echoes of dreamland shall bear them along,
Follow up! Follow up! Follow up!
Forty years on, Mitt Romney accepted the school's 2005 Distinguished Alumni Award.
A year earlier, John Joseph Lauber died at a Seattle hospital.
The boy few at Cranbrook knew or remember was born in Chicago, grew up in South Bend, Ind., and had a hard time fitting in. He liked to wander and "had a glorious sense of the absurd," according to his sister Betsy. When the chance to get out of Indiana presented itself, he jumped at it and enrolled at Cranbrook. He never uttered a word about Mitt Romney or the haircut incident to his sisters. After Cranbrook asked him to leave, he finished high school, attended the University of the Seven Seas for two semesters, then graduated in 1970 from Vanderbilt, where he majored in English.
He came out as gay to his family and close friends and led a vagabond life, taking dressage lessons in England and touring with the Royal Lipizzaner Stallion riders. After an extreme fit of temper in front of his mother and sister at home in South Bend, he checked into the Menninger Clinic psychiatric hospital in Topeka, Kan. Later he received his embalmer's license, worked as a chef aboard big freighters and fishing trawlers, and cooked for civilian contractors during the war in Bosnia and then, a decade later, in Iraq. His hair thinned as he aged, and in the winter of 2004 he returned to Seattle, the closest thing he had to a base. He died there of liver cancer that December.
He kept his hair blond until he died, said his sister Chris. "He never stopped bleaching it."
Researcher Julie Tate contributed to this report.
Yes it matters. The Obama machine is finally in action. Let the beat down commence. :lol:
It matters in the sense his opponents are going to slam him with it. Man I feel horrible for the bashee, what a life.
It doesn't matter. But I don't like Mitt's response. Someone on Twitter put it best. Everyone changes after high school, that's normal. But everyone also remembers high school. Either Mitt did this so often that, ironically given his views on the gays, his experience of high school was basically the Glee dressing room. Or he's just lying.
Edit: I think the dog thing does actually matter. It's a trivial non-trivial character indicator. This isn't.
Obama apparently bullied some girl in high school. He shoved her because everyone was giving him shit for her supposedly being his girlfriend. She was too fat for him or something.
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 10, 2012, 09:43:51 PM
But I don't like Mitt's response.
Well, you don't like anything he ever does, so that's hardly a surprise.
Quote from: derspiess on May 10, 2012, 09:44:22 PM
Obama apparently bullied some girl in high school. He shoved her because everyone was giving him shit for her supposedly being his girlfriend. She was too fat for him or something.
Basically we have an election between the two worst human beings in the universe.
Quote from: Valmy on May 10, 2012, 09:42:04 PM
It matters in the sense his opponents are going to slam him with it.
Well, yeah. But I meant does this say anything about the man he is today, or can it be just dismissed as kids acting like kids (i.e. cruel and selfish), that doesn't have an impact on who he is now.
Quote from: derspiess on May 10, 2012, 09:45:54 PMWell, you don't like anything he ever does, so that's hardly a surprise.
True. I've hated Romney since 2008 :P
It's Hitler vs Stalin all over again.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 10, 2012, 09:47:47 PM
Well, yeah. But I meant does this say anything about the man he is today, or can it be just dismissed as kids acting like kids (i.e. cruel and selfish), that doesn't have an impact on who he is now.
Well I suppose if his response was 'hell yeah and I would assault that faggot again' it would. But since it probably isn't I don't think so.
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 10, 2012, 09:48:00 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 10, 2012, 09:45:54 PMWell, you don't like anything he ever does, so that's hardly a surprise.
True. I've hated Romney since 2008 :P
If only your dreamboat Huckabee had made it through & won the primary :(
Quote from: Valmy on May 10, 2012, 09:49:24 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 10, 2012, 09:47:47 PM
Well, yeah. But I meant does this say anything about the man he is today, or can it be just dismissed as kids acting like kids (i.e. cruel and selfish), that doesn't have an impact on who he is now.
Well I suppose if his response was 'hell yeah and I would assault that faggot again' it would. But since it probably isn't I don't think so.
That would actually be pretty hilarious to hear Willard say that. Shocking, but hilarious.
Quote from: PDH on May 10, 2012, 09:48:48 PM
It's Hitler vs Stalin all over again.
I prefer Mittler tbh
Quote from: derspiess on May 10, 2012, 09:52:56 PM
If only your dreamboat Huckabee had made it through & won the primary :(
:( I just wish he'd entered the race this year.
Just another example of Mitt's sense of entitlement.
I mean, dude...walking a blind teacher into a door? Funny as balls? Yes. Appropriate? No.
See, and that's the problem with Mitt's sense of humor; after all, watching the guy walk into the door on his own? Now that's gold, Jerry! Gold!
I only skimmed the first part, but what I don't like is:
A) His lack of any real apology or remorse, either for political reasons or genuine lack of empathy
B) The fact he apparently did that toward the end of senior year, and thus was I guess around 17 or 18 years old. He was definitely old enough to know better by then, and certainly well past the peak ages of bullying.
Together those things do point to a nastiness of character.
But then he is a cut-throat politician who's able to compete for the ultimate prize, so I guess it just goes with the territory.
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 10, 2012, 10:05:42 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 10, 2012, 09:52:56 PM
If only your dreamboat Huckabee had made it through & won the primary :(
:( I just wish he'd entered the race this year.
We've had enough Bible-thumpers in this primary season to last 3 more presidential elections, didn't need the King of the Thumpers.
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 10, 2012, 10:14:42 PM
A) His lack of any real apology or remorse, either for political reasons or genuine lack of empathy
Well he has to be anti-gay and pro-gay at the same time. Hard to have a real response with those constraints.
Let's face it we are never going to see the real Mitt, at least not until he retires from politics.
Quote from: Valmy on May 10, 2012, 10:20:23 PM
Let's face it we are never going to see the real Mitt, at least not until he retires from politics.
The nearest we've got, and my favourite Mitt moment, was when he said that 'as a Mormon' he believed 'marriage should be between a man and a woman, and a woman, and a woman' :lol:
If we had more of that I'd like him.
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 10, 2012, 10:14:42 PM
Together those things do point to a nastiness of character.
His entire life points to a nastiness of character. Not Nixonian, to be sure, but a different kind.
Romney's the kind of corporate mega-executive meanie if you pissed him off at 8am, he's the type that wouldn't say anything, but when you get off of work, you find your home's already been foreclosed upon.
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 10, 2012, 10:26:53 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 10, 2012, 10:20:23 PM
Let's face it we are never going to see the real Mitt, at least not until he retires from politics.
The nearest we've got, and my favourite Mitt moment, was when he said that 'as a Mormon' he believed 'marriage should be between a man and a woman, and a woman, and a woman' :lol:
If we had more of that I'd like him.
Who wrote that joke for him? :yeahright:
Quote from: FunkMonk on May 10, 2012, 10:46:01 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 10, 2012, 10:26:53 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 10, 2012, 10:20:23 PM
Let's face it we are never going to see the real Mitt, at least not until he retires from politics.
The nearest we've got, and my favourite Mitt moment, was when he said that 'as a Mormon' he believed 'marriage should be between a man and a woman, and a woman, and a woman' :lol:
If we had more of that I'd like him.
Who wrote that joke for him? :yeahright:
His wife, probably.
Which one :ph34r:
Quote from: FunkMonk on May 10, 2012, 10:46:01 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 10, 2012, 10:26:53 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 10, 2012, 10:20:23 PM
Let's face it we are never going to see the real Mitt, at least not until he retires from politics.
The nearest we've got, and my favourite Mitt moment, was when he said that 'as a Mormon' he believed 'marriage should be between a man and a woman, and a woman, and a woman' :lol:
If we had more of that I'd like him.
Yeah - I don't hate Romney, but there's no way he came up with that line.
Who wrote that joke for him? :yeahright:
Learn to quote you gitless lips
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 10, 2012, 10:30:37 PM
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 10, 2012, 10:14:42 PM
Together those things do point to a nastiness of character.
His entire life points to a nastiness of character. Not Nixonian, to be sure, but a different kind.
Romney's the kind of corporate mega-executive meanie if you pissed him off at 8am, he's the type that wouldn't say anything, but when you get off of work, you find your home's already been foreclosed upon.
He does seem to be a fairly unpleasant man.
He lost my vote.
Wow, a 5,500 word article about Romney's time in High School. Which the WaPo already had to edit several times since it was published due to factual errors.
Where does the WaPo have the link to its stories about Obama's background? Oh that's right, there aren't any, since that would be a "distraction". Romney was a bully in High School, Obama was best friends with murderous terrorists and launched his political career from their home. Obviously, Romney's high school antics, real or fabricated, are the real story here.
The MSM beclownes itself again.
Quote from: Hansmeister on May 11, 2012, 03:24:19 AM
The MSM beclownes itself again.
Is this really a word?
Quote from: Hansmeister on May 11, 2012, 03:24:19 AMObama was best friends with murderous terrorists and launched his political career from their home.
http://articles.cnn.com/2008-10-04/politics/palin.obama_1_swift-boat-like-attacks-sarah-palin-hari-sevugan?_s=PM:POLITICS
QuotePalin cited an article in Saturday's New York Times about Obama's relationship with Ayers, now 63. But that article concluded that "the two men do not appear to have been close. Nor has Mr. Obama ever expressed sympathy for the radical views and actions of Mr. Ayers, whom he has called 'somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was 8.' "
Riot and bomb conspiracy charges against Ayers were dropped in 1974, and he is now a professor of education at the University of Illinois in Chicago.
Obama campaign spokesman Hari Sevugan called Palin's comments "offensive" and "not surprising given the McCain campaign's statement this morning that they would be launching Swift Boat-like attacks in hopes of deflecting attention from the nation's economic ills."
Quote from: Hansmeister on May 11, 2012, 03:24:19 AM
Wow, a 5,500 word article about Romney's time in High School. Which the WaPo already had to edit several times since it was published due to factual errors.
Where does the WaPo have the link to its stories about Obama's background? Oh that's right, there aren't any, since that would be a "distraction". Romney was a bully in High School, Obama was best friends with murderous terrorists and launched his political career from their home. Obviously, Romney's high school antics, real or fabricated, are the real story here.
The MSM beclownes itself again.
Hansy, just a question, is there anything nice you can say about Obama as a politician?
Quote from: Hansmeister on May 11, 2012, 03:24:19 AM
Wow, a 5,500 word article about Romney's time in High School. Which the WaPo already had to edit several times since it was published due to factual errors.
Where does the WaPo have the link to its stories about Obama's background? Oh that's right, there aren't any, since that would be a "distraction". Romney was a bully in High School, Obama was best friends with murderous terrorists and launched his political career from their home. Obviously, Romney's high school antics, real or fabricated, are the real story here.
The MSM beclownes itself again.
Which "Murderous terrorists" are we talking about and who did they murder? Oh and here's a Washington Post story on Obama's early years. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/23/AR2008082301620.html
So which is faggier, slightly effeminate bangs or forcibly hairdressing another man?
In any event, was he able to prove that Lauber was really Superboy?
Quote
Saul, Romney's campaign spokeswoman, said the candidate has no recollection of the incident.
I didn't know mormons could use "I was drunk/stoned" as an excuse?
BTW what happend to that gay romney aide that quit because republicans are homophobes?
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 11, 2012, 03:36:22 AM
Quote from: Hansmeister on May 11, 2012, 03:24:19 AM
The MSM beclownes itself again.
Is this really a word?
beclown 72 up, 8 down
Verb. To make a complete idiot of oneself in public. To behave or speak in such a way, or to make a comment or express an opinion that is so profoundly witless, senseless and obtuse, that you have forever after defined yourself as a person of comical value only. Never to be taken seriously again. Of worth only as an object of ridicule and derision.
Quote from: Viking on May 11, 2012, 03:41:06 AM
Quote from: Hansmeister on May 11, 2012, 03:24:19 AM
Wow, a 5,500 word article about Romney's time in High School. Which the WaPo already had to edit several times since it was published due to factual errors.
Where does the WaPo have the link to its stories about Obama's background? Oh that's right, there aren't any, since that would be a "distraction". Romney was a bully in High School, Obama was best friends with murderous terrorists and launched his political career from their home. Obviously, Romney's high school antics, real or fabricated, are the real story here.
The MSM beclownes itself again.
Hansy, just a question, is there anything nice you can say about Obama as a politician?
He's in the GOP camp........no. Obama will beat Silver Spoon Boy aka Romney
I'm not too enamoured with the "politician was an asshole in High School 30 years ago" pieces. Young people are assholes and make fools of themselves; add in 30 or 40 years of social change and only the blandest and inoffensive of candidates would have an unblemished record.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 11, 2012, 04:51:41 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 11, 2012, 03:36:22 AM
Quote from: Hansmeister on May 11, 2012, 03:24:19 AM
The MSM beclownes itself again.
Is this really a word?
beclown 72 up, 8 down
Verb. To make a complete idiot of oneself in public. To behave or speak in such a way, or to make a comment or express an opinion that is so profoundly witless, senseless and obtuse, that you have forever after defined yourself as a person of comical value only. Never to be taken seriously again. Of worth only as an object of ridicule and derision.
I'm going to be pissed if Words With Friends doesn't accept it. :mad:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 06:44:17 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 11, 2012, 04:51:41 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 11, 2012, 03:36:22 AM
Quote from: Hansmeister on May 11, 2012, 03:24:19 AM
The MSM beclownes itself again.
Is this really a word?
beclown 72 up, 8 down
Verb. To make a complete idiot of oneself in public. To behave or speak in such a way, or to make a comment or express an opinion that is so profoundly witless, senseless and obtuse, that you have forever after defined yourself as a person of comical value only. Never to be taken seriously again. Of worth only as an object of ridicule and derision.
I'm going to be pissed if Words With Friends doesn't accept it. :mad:
Somebody is hooked bad.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 11, 2012, 06:45:42 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 06:44:17 AM
I'm going to be pissed if Words With Friends doesn't accept it. :mad:
Somebody is hooked bad.
:lol: My now-retired dear Mommy, who's been a Scrabble junkie all her life--she has collectors edition sets, for fuck's sake--was only recently introduced to it with her iTouch.
Now, she just drains my battery with push alerts for the 6 games we have running at once.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 06:51:26 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 11, 2012, 06:45:42 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 06:44:17 AM
I'm going to be pissed if Words With Friends doesn't accept it. :mad:
Somebody is hooked bad.
:lol: My now-retired dear Mommy, who's been a Scrabble junkie all her life--she has collectors edition sets, for fuck's sake--was only recently introduced to it with her iTouch.
Now, she just drains my battery with push alerts for the 6 games we have running at once.
How Berkut-ian.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 11, 2012, 07:00:05 AM
How Berkut-ian.
I think she's a worse sore loser than I am.
Quote from: Pitiful Pathos on May 10, 2012, 10:14:42 PM
I only skimmed the first part, but what I don't like is:
A) His lack of any real apology or remorse, either for political reasons or genuine lack of empathy
B) The fact he apparently did that toward the end of senior year, and thus was I guess around 17 or 18 years old. He was definitely old enough to know better by then, and certainly well past the peak ages of bullying.
Together those things do point to a nastiness of character.
But then he is a cut-throat politician who's able to compete for the ultimate prize, so I guess it just goes with the territory.
Why would anybody apologize or feel remorse for shit you did in high school? Everybody wronged everybody else and was wronged by them in equal measure. If you let that stuff weigh you down, you'll never be healthy. And nobody knew better than to bully faggots in the mid-60s. They knew back then what we have forgotten: That faggotry is absolutely wrong, and that those who are different need guidance to help them conform.
The utter butthurt on Chuck Todd's show on MSNBC that Mittens didn't grovel and apologize on his network was delicious this morning. Lean Forward.
Quote from: Hansmeister on May 11, 2012, 03:24:19 AM
Obama was best friends with murderous terrorists and launched his political career from their home. Obviously, Romney's high school antics, real or fabricated, are the real story here.
:lmfao: Dude your are hilarious. Surely that has to be intentionally ironic right?
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 11, 2012, 08:15:22 AM
The utter butthurt on Chuck Todd's show on MSNBC that Mittens didn't grovel and apologize on his network was delicious this morning. Lean Forward.
I love mah MSNBC. I Lean Forward straight through the day and evening.
And I would so painfuck Alex Wagner and Tamron Hall in a diversity sammich.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 08:22:56 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 11, 2012, 08:15:22 AM
The utter butthurt on Chuck Todd's show on MSNBC that Mittens didn't grovel and apologize on his network was delicious this morning. Lean Forward.
I love mah MSNBC. I Lean Forward straight through the day and evening.
And I would so painfuck Alex Wagner and Tamron Hall in a diversity sammich.
I used to like Chris Jansing. But she got all old. :(
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 11, 2012, 08:28:26 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 08:22:56 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 11, 2012, 08:15:22 AM
The utter butthurt on Chuck Todd's show on MSNBC that Mittens didn't grovel and apologize on his network was delicious this morning. Lean Forward.
I love mah MSNBC. I Lean Forward straight through the day and evening.
And I would so painfuck Alex Wagner and Tamron Hall in a diversity sammich.
I used to like Chris Jansing. But she got all old. :(
Yeah, in like 2003.
I miss Ashleigh Banfield. Glasses AND short hair? So wanted to fuck that face.
She's on Court TV. Or whatever they are calling it now. TruTV or some such bullshit.
The funny thing is that Obama wrote in his first autobiography how he used to bully little girls in school. OMG, Obama is a mysoginist!
Well, if that's the best they have on Romney, then it is game over for Obama.
The last poll has Romney 50 - Obama 43, I guess it is time to dig into Romney's kindergarden experience.
Quote from: Syt on May 11, 2012, 03:39:20 AM
Quote from: Hansmeister on May 11, 2012, 03:24:19 AMObama was best friends with murderous terrorists and launched his political career from their home.
http://articles.cnn.com/2008-10-04/politics/palin.obama_1_swift-boat-like-attacks-sarah-palin-hari-sevugan?_s=PM:POLITICS
QuotePalin cited an article in Saturday's New York Times about Obama's relationship with Ayers, now 63. But that article concluded that "the two men do not appear to have been close. Nor has Mr. Obama ever expressed sympathy for the radical views and actions of Mr. Ayers, whom he has called 'somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was 8.' "
Riot and bomb conspiracy charges against Ayers were dropped in 1974, and he is now a professor of education at the University of Illinois in Chicago.
Obama campaign spokesman Hari Sevugan called Palin's comments "offensive" and "not surprising given the McCain campaign's statement this morning that they would be launching Swift Boat-like attacks in hopes of deflecting attention from the nation's economic ills."
:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:
The NYTimes? Really? Ayers and Obama were close friends for nearly two decades and shared the same office for years.
And of course the reason the charges were dropped were due to the evidence having been obtained through illegal wiretaps, not because of lack of guilt. Heck, Ayers himself proudly proclaimed his guilt, or as he put it "guilty as sin, free as a bird, what a great country". Probably the only time in his life he spoke well of the USA.
Quote from: Hansmeister on May 11, 2012, 08:49:07 AM
The funny thing is that Obama wrote in his first autobiography how he used to bully little girls in school. OMG, Obama is a mysoginist!
Well, if that's the best they have on Romney, then it is game over for Obama.
The last poll has Romney 50 - Obama 43, I guess it is time to dig into Romney's kindergarden experience.
:rolleyes:
Here, I'll add some
Poll Date Sample Obama (D) Romney (R) Spread
RCP Average 4/27 - 5/10 -- 46.6 45.6 Obama +1.0
Rasmussen Tracking 5/8 - 5/10 1500 LV 43 50 Romney +7
Gallup Tracking 5/3 - 5/9 2200 RV 44 47 Romney +3
Associated Press/GfK 5/3 - 5/7 871 RV 50 42 Obama +8
Reuters/Ipsos 5/3 - 5/7 959 RV 49 42 Obama +7
Politico/GWU/Battleground 4/29 - 5/3 1000 LV 47 48 Romney +1
IBD/CSM/TIPP 4/27 - 5/4 856 RV 46 43 Obama +3
Democracy Corps (D) 4/28 - 5/1 1000 LV 47 47 Tie
FOX News 4/22 - 4/24 915 RV 46 46 Tie
National Journal 4/19 - 4/22 1004 A 47 39 Obama +8
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 4/13 - 4/17 RV 49 43 Obama +6
CBS News/NY Times 4/13 - 4/17 852 RV 46 46 Tie
Quinnipiac 4/11 - 4/17 2577 RV 46 42 Obama +4
Gallup 4/12 - 4/16 2200 RV 43 48 Romney +5
CNN/Opinion Research 4/13 - 4/15 910 RV 52 43 Obama +9
Rasmussen Reports 4/13 - 4/15 1500 LV 44 47 Romney +3
Reuters/Ipsos 4/12 - 4/15 891 RV 47 43 Obama +4
PPP (D) 4/12 - 4/15 900 RV 49 46 Obama +3
Pew Research 4/4 - 4/15 2373 RV 49 45 Obama +4
FOX News 4/9 - 4/11 910 RV 44 46 Romney +2
Rasmussen Reports 4/6 - 4/8 1500 LV 46 44 Obama +2
ABC News/Wash Post 4/5 - 4/8 RV 51 44 Obama +7
IBD/CSM/TIPP 3/30 - 4/5 816 RV 46 38 Obama +8
USA Today/Gallup 3/25 - 3/26 901 RV 49 45 Obama +4
CNN/Opinion Research 3/24 - 3/25 925 RV 54 43 Obama +11
Rasmussen Reports 3/23 - 3/25 1500 LV 46 43 Obama +3
McClatchy/Marist 3/20 - 3/22 846 RV 46 44 Obama +2
PPP (D) 3/15 - 3/17 900 RV 48 44 Obama +4
Reason-Rupe 3/10 - 3/20 1200 A 46 40 Obama +6
FOX News 3/10 - 3/12 912 RV 46 42 Obama +4
Reuters/Ipsos 3/8 - 3/11 937 RV 52 41 Obama +11
Bloomberg 3/8 - 3/11 746 LV 47 47 Tie
Pew Research 3/7 - 3/11 1188 RV 54 42 Obama +12
Rasmussen Reports 3/8 - 3/10 1500 LV 42 48 Romney +6
CBS News/NY Times 3/7 - 3/11 878 RV 47 44 Obama +3
ABC News/Wash Post 3/7 - 3/10 RV 47 49 Romney +2
IBD/CSM/TIPP 3/4 - 3/11 807 RV 46 41 Obama +5
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 2/29 - 3/3 RV 50 44 Obama +6
Politico/GWU/Battleground 2/19 - 2/22 1000 LV 53 43 Obama +10
USA Today/Gallup 2/20 - 2/21 881 RV 47 47 Tie
Associated Press/GfK 2/16 - 2/20 1000 A 51 43 Obama +8
USA Today/Gallup 2/16 - 2/19 898 RV 46 50 Romney +4
Rasmussen Reports 2/16 - 2/18 1500 LV 47 43 Obama +4
Quinnipiac 2/14 - 2/20 2605 RV 46 44 Obama +2
Democracy Corps (D) 2/11 - 2/14 1000 LV 49 45 Obama +4
CNN/Opinion Research 2/10 - 2/13 937 RV 51 46 Obama +5
CBS News/NY Times 2/8 - 2/13 1604 RV 48 42 Obama +6
PPP (D) 2/9 - 2/12 1200 RV 49 42 Obama +7
Pew Research 2/8 - 2/12 1172 RV 52 44 Obama +8
Rasmussen Reports 2/7 - 2/9 1500 LV 50 40 Obama +10
FOX News 2/6 - 2/9 1110 RV 47 42 Obama +5
Reuters/Ipsos 2/2 - 2/6 881 RV 48 42 Obama +6
ABC News/Wash Post 2/1 - 2/4 879 RV 51 45 Obama +6
IBD/CSM/TIPP 1/29 - 2/4 852 RV 47 41 Obama +6
Rasmussen Reports 1/31 - 2/2 1500 LV 45 45 Tie
USA Today/Gallup 1/27 - 1/28 907 RV 48 48 Tie
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 1/22 - 1/24 RV 49 43 Obama +6
Rasmussen Reports 1/19 - 1/21 1500 LV 46 43 Obama +3
PPP (D) 1/13 - 1/16 700 RV 49 44 Obama +5
CBS News/NY Times 1/12 - 1/16 1021 RV 45 45 Tie
ABC News/Wash Post 1/12 - 1/15 RV 46 48 Romney +2
Pew Research 1/11 - 1/16 1207 RV 50 45 Obama +5
FOX News 1/12 - 1/14 906 RV 46 45 Obama +1
CNN/Opinion Research 1/11 - 1/12 928 RV 47 48 Romney +1
Democracy Corps (D) 1/8 - 1/11 1000 LV 47 46 Obama +1
Rasmussen Reports 1/9 - 1/10 1000 LV 44 41 Obama +3
Reuters/Ipsos 1/5 - 1/9 896 RV 48 43 Obama +5
CBS News 1/4 - 1/8 1247 RV 45 47 Romney +2
Rasmussen Reports 1/3 - 1/4 1000 LV 42 42 Tie
Rasmussen Reports 12/27 - 12/28 1000 LV 39 45 Romney +6
Rasmussen Reports 12/20 - 12/21 1000 LV 44 41 Obama +3
CNN/Opinion Research 12/16 - 12/18 928 RV 52 45 Obama +7
PPP (D) 12/16 - 12/18 700 RV 45 47 Romney +2
ABC News/Wash Post 12/15 - 12/18 RV 47 47 Tie
USA Today/Gallup 12/15 - 12/18 898 RV 50 48 Obama +2
Rasmussen Reports 12/14 - 12/15 1000 LV 42 43 Romney +1
Reuters/Ipsos 12/8 - 12/12 921 RV 48 40 Obama +8
Associated Press/GfK 12/8 - 12/12 1000 A 47 46 Obama +1
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 12/7 - 12/11 RV 47 45 Obama +2
Rasmussen Reports 12/8 - 12/9 1000 LV 42 45 Romney +3
USA Today/Gallup 12/6 - 12/7 883 RV 47 46 Obama +1
FOX News 12/5 - 12/7 911 RV 44 42 Obama +2
Rasmussen Reports 11/30 - 12/1 1000 LV 42 40 Obama +2
Rasmussen Reports 11/21 - 11/22 1000 LV 44 38 Obama +6
Quinnipiac 11/14 - 11/20 2552 RV 45 44 Obama +1
FOX News 11/13 - 11/15 914 RV 42 44 Romney +2
CNN/Opinion Research 11/11 - 11/13 925 RV 47 51 Romney +4
Pew Research 11/9 - 11/14 1576 RV 49 47 Obama +2
PPP (D) 11/10 - 11/13 800 RV 46 43 Obama +3
Rasmussen Reports 11/9 - 11/10 1000 LV 43 42 Obama +1
McClatchy/Marist 11/8 - 11/10 872 RV 48 44 Obama +4
Politico/GWU/Battleground 11/6 - 11/9 1000 LV 49 43 Obama +6
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 11/2 - 11/5 RV 49 43 Obama +6
ABC News/Wash Post 10/31 - 11/3 RV 46 47 Romney +1
Reuters/Ipsos 10/31 - 11/3 937 RV 43 44 Romney +1
Rasmussen Reports 11/1 - 11/2 1000 LV 42 41 Obama +1
Quinnipiac 10/25 - 10/31 2294 RV 47 42 Obama +5
USA Today/Gallup 10/26 - 10/27 908 RV 47 47 Tie
Rasmussen Reports 10/24 - 10/25 1000 LV 42 44 Romney +2
Democracy Corps (D) 10/15 - 10/18 1000 LV 45 45 Tie
Rasmussen Reports 10/16 - 10/17 1000 LV 43 42 Obama +1
Associated Press/GfK 10/13 - 10/17 1000 A 48 45 Obama +3
Time 10/9 - 10/10 838 LV 48 44 Obama +4
PPP (D) 10/7 - 10/10 700 RV 45 45 Tie
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 10/6 - 10/10 RV 46 44 Obama +2
Rasmussen Reports 10/8 - 10/9 1000 LV 43 41 Obama +2
Quinnipiac 9/27 - 10/3 2118 RV 42 46 Romney +4
ABC News/Wash Post 9/29 - 10/2 RV 46 48 Romney +2
Pew Research 9/22 - 10/4 1901 RV 48 48 Tie
Rasmussen Reports 9/28 - 9/29 1000 LV 42 44 Romney +2
FOX News 9/25 - 9/27 925 RV 45 42 Obama +3
CNN/Opinion Research 9/23 - 9/25 917 RV 49 48 Obama +1
Rasmussen Reports 9/18 - 9/19 1000 LV 44 41 Obama +3
USA Today/Gallup 9/15 - 9/18 889 RV 47 49 Romney +2
McClatchy/Marist 9/13 - 9/14 825 RV 46 44 Obama +2
Bloomberg 9/9 - 9/12 997 A 48 43 Obama +5
Reuters/Ipsos 9/8 - 9/12 932 RV 49 43 Obama +6
Rasmussen Reports 9/10 - 9/11 1000 LV 40 43 Romney +3
PPP (D) 9/8 - 9/11 665 RV 49 45 Obama +4
ABC News/Wash Post 8/29 - 9/1 RV 45 49 Romney +4
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 8/27 - 8/31 RV 46 45 Obama +1
Rasmussen Reports 8/25 - 8/26 1000 LV 43 39 Obama +4
Quinnipiac 8/16 - 8/27 2730 RV 45 45 Tie
PPP (D) 8/18 - 8/21 700 RV 45 45 Tie
Rasmussen Reports 8/17 - 8/21 1000 LV 46 38 Obama +8
Gallup 8/17 - 8/18 879 RV 46 48 Romney +2
Democracy Corps (D) 8/6 - 8/10 1000 LV 48 46 Obama +2
CNN/Opinion Research 8/5 - 8/7 930 RV 49 48 Obama +1
McClatchy/Marist 8/2 - 8/4 807 RV 46 41 Obama +5
FOX News 7/17 - 7/19 904 RV 47 41 Obama +6
ABC News/Wash Post 7/14 - 7/17 RV 49 47 Obama +2
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 7/14 - 7/17 RV 48 41 Obama +7
PPP (D) 7/15 - 7/17 928 RV 45 45 Tie
Rasmussen Reports 7/14 - 7/15 1000 LV 42 43 Romney +1
Quinnipiac 7/5 - 7/11 2311 RV 47 41 Obama +6
McClatchy/Marist 6/15 - 6/23 390 RV 46 42 Obama +4
Democracy Corps (D) 6/18 - 6/21 1000 RV 47 45 Obama +2
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 6/9 - 6/13 RV 49 43 Obama +6
PPP (D) 6/9 - 6/12 520 RV 47 45 Obama +2
FOX News 6/5 - 6/7 912 RV 48 41 Obama +7
Reuters/Ipsos 6/3 - 6/6 1132 A 51 38 Obama +13
ABC News/Wash Post 6/2 - 6/5 RV 46 49 Romney +3
Quinnipiac 5/31 - 6/6 1946 RV 47 41 Obama +6
PPP (D) 5/23 - 5/25 600 RV 49 42 Obama +7
Democracy Corps (D) 5/21 - 5/25 1000 LV 48 44 Obama +4
Politico/GWU/Battleground 5/8 - 5/12 1000 LV 52 40 Obama +12
Reuters/Ipsos 5/5 - 5/9 600 A 51 38 Obama +13
PPP (D) 5/5 - 5/8 814 RV 47 42 Obama +5
Newsweek/Daily Beast 5/2 - 5/3 600 A 42 36 Obama +6
Newsweek/Daily Beast 4/30 - 5/1 600 A 44 44 Tie
CNN/Opinion Research 4/29 - 5/1 964 RV 54 43 Obama +11
ABC News/Wash Post 4/14 - 4/17 1001 A 49 45 Obama +4
McClatchy/Marist 4/10 - 4/14 532 RV 46 45 Obama +1
Democracy Corps (D) 4/10 - 4/12 1000 LV 46 48 Romney +2
PPP (D) 4/7 - 4/10 532 RV 47 41 Obama +6
PPP (D) 3/10 - 3/13 642 RV 47 42 Obama +5
Rasmussen Reports 3/6 - 3/9 2000 LV 45 40 Obama +5
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 2/24 - 2/28 RV 49 40 Obama +9
Newsweek/Daily Beast 2/12 - 2/15 918 LV 49 47 Obama +2
PPP (D) 2/11 - 2/14 600 RV 46 41 Obama +5
FOX News 2/7 - 2/9 911 RV 48 41 Obama +7
PPP (D) 1/14 - 1/16 632 RV 48 43 Obama +5
Democracy Corps (D) 1/9 - 1/12 1000 LV 48 46 Obama +2
McClatchy/Marist 1/6 - 1/10 827 RV 51 38 Obama +13
Rasmussen Reports 1/3 - 1/6 2000 LV 42 44 Romney +2
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 12/9 - 12/13 1000 A 47 40 Obama +7
McClatchy/Marist 12/2 - 12/8 873 RV 44 46 Romney +2
PPP (D) 11/19 - 11/21 707 RV 47 46 Obama +1
Quinnipiac 11/8 - 11/15 2424 RV 44 45 Romney +1
CNN/Opinion Research 10/27 - 10/30 921 RV 45 50 Romney +5
FOX News 9/28 - 9/29 900 RV 41 40 Obama +1
PPP (D) 9/10 - 9/13 590 RV 46 43 Obama +3
PPP (D) 8/6 - 8/9 606 RV 45 42 Obama +3
PPP (D) 7/9 - 7/12 667 RV 43 46 Romney +3
PPP (D) 6/4 - 6/7 650 RV 45 42 Obama +3
PPP (D) 5/7 - 5/9 707 RV 46 44 Obama +2
PPP (D) 4/9 - 4/11 622 RV 44 45 Romney +1
CNN/Opinion Research 4/9 - 4/11 907 RV 53 45 Obama +8
PPP (D) 3/12 - 3/14 1403 RV 44 44 Tie
PPP (D) 2/13 - 2/15 743 RV 45 43 Obama +2
PPP (D) 1/18 - 1/19 1151 RV 44 42 Obama +2
FOX News 1/12 - 1/14 900 RV 47 35 Obama +12
PPP (D) 12/4 - 12/7 1253 RV 47 42 Obama +5
Rasmussen Reports 11/24 - 11/24 800 LV 44 44 Tie
PPP (D) 11/13 - 11/15 1066 RV 48 43 Obama +5
PPP (D) 10/16 - 10/19 766 RV 48 40 Obama +8
PPP (D) 9/18 - 9/21 621 RV 48 39 Obama +9
PPP (D) 8/14 - 8/17 909 RV 47 40 Obama +7
Rasmussen Reports 7/16 - 7/17 1000 LV 45 45 Tie
PPP (D) 7/15 - 7/16 577 RV 49 40 Obama +9
PPP (D) 6/12 - 6/16 638 RV 48 40 Obama +8
PPP (D) 5/14 - 5/18 1000 RV 53 35 Obama +18
PPP (D) 4/17 - 4/19 686 RV 50 39 Obama +11
Quote from: Hansmeister on May 11, 2012, 08:49:07 AM
The funny thing is that Obama wrote in his first autobiography how he used to bully little girls in school. OMG, Obama is a mysoginist!
Well, if that's the best they have on Romney, then it is game over for Obama.
The last poll has Romney 50 - Obama 43, I guess it is time to dig into Romney's kindergarden experience.
Always party first with Hansie, regardless of the subject. :lol: His avatar is the most appropriate on the forum.
I love Hans, he can trivialize the damning and make damning the trivial - all depending on who it is aimed at.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 08:57:39 AM
Quote from: Hansmeister on May 11, 2012, 08:49:07 AM
The funny thing is that Obama wrote in his first autobiography how he used to bully little girls in school. OMG, Obama is a mysoginist!
Well, if that's the best they have on Romney, then it is game over for Obama.
The last poll has Romney 50 - Obama 43, I guess it is time to dig into Romney's kindergarden experience.
Always party first with Hansie, regardless of the subject. :lol: His avatar is the most appropriate on the forum.
:lol: and pick out one poll that fits his agenda.
Quote from: PDH on May 11, 2012, 09:00:13 AM
I love Hans, he can trivialize the damning and make damning the trivial - all depending on who it is aimed at.
Who the fuck is arguing the trivial? Isn't this whole thread about Romney's High School days? How can anything be more trivial than that? Even I don't think Obama's crack habit in High School is relevant.
Quote from: PDH on May 11, 2012, 09:00:13 AM
I love Hans, he can trivialize the damning and make damning the trivial - all depending on who it is aimed at.
I know it is hilarious. Does he really believe his own bullshit?
Quote from: Hansmeister on May 11, 2012, 09:04:27 AM
Who the fuck is arguing the trivial? Isn't this whole thread about Romney's High School days? How can anything be more trivial than that?
Obama's Neonatal days.
11B, only the first handful of those polls are relevant, since most are older samples of recently-updated polls. I would also weight the polls of likely voters more heavily than those of registered voters, even though the "likely" factor can vary between now & election time.
The recent trend (within the last 1.5 to 2 weeks) definitely seems to be favoring Romney.
Quote from: Hansmeister on May 11, 2012, 09:04:27 AM
Who the fuck is arguing the trivial? Isn't this whole thread about Romney's High School days? How can anything be more trivial than that? Even I don't think Obama's crack habit in High School is relevant.
Blame Tim he posted it. We just talk about it. Mostly to say: yeah no big deal with a few partisan Dems saying how it hurts their souls or something. Then you come in all flipping out and calling Obama a terrorist like a drama queen making a fool of yourself.
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 09:06:44 AM
11B, only the first handful of those polls are relevant, since most are older samples of recently-updated polls. I would also weight the polls of likely voters more heavily than those of registered voters, even though the "likely" factor can vary between now & election time.
The recent trend (within the last 1.5 to 2 weeks) definitely seems to be favoring Romney.
Here will do the avg.
RCP Average 4/27 - 5/10 -- 46.6 45.6 Obama +1.0
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 09:06:44 AM
11B, only the first handful of those polls are relevant, since most are older samples of recently-updated polls. I would also weight the polls of likely voters more heavily than those of registered voters, even though the "likely" factor can vary between now & election time.
The recent trend (within the last 1.5 to 2 weeks) definitely seems to be favoring Romney.
Because nothing says relevent like polls in May. God I hate election years.
Quote from: Valmy on May 11, 2012, 09:09:32 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 09:06:44 AM
11B, only the first handful of those polls are relevant, since most are older samples of recently-updated polls. I would also weight the polls of likely voters more heavily than those of registered voters, even though the "likely" factor can vary between now & election time.
The recent trend (within the last 1.5 to 2 weeks) definitely seems to be favoring Romney.
Because nothing says relevent like polls in May. God I hate election years.
You don't have to pay attention, mongers.
Quote from: garbon on May 11, 2012, 09:13:21 AM
You don't have to pay attention, mongers.
Anything posted on Languish will be discussed. If you do not want to hear my opinion then don't post. Simple.
Quote from: Valmy on May 11, 2012, 09:19:19 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 11, 2012, 09:13:21 AM
You don't have to pay attention, mongers.
Anything posted on Languish will be discussed. If you do not want to hear my opinion then don't post. Simple.
Oh really? You reply to every thread now?
Besides if you don't like a thread feel free not to participate.
Quote from: garbon on May 11, 2012, 09:23:19 AM
Oh really? You reply to every thread now?
Besides if you don't like a thread feel free not to participate.
Only if I have something to say about it.
And not liking something is plenty of reason to comment and participate you do that all the time. In fact you are doing it now. So WTF?
Quote from: 11B4V on May 11, 2012, 09:09:28 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 09:06:44 AM
11B, only the first handful of those polls are relevant, since most are older samples of recently-updated polls. I would also weight the polls of likely voters more heavily than those of registered voters, even though the "likely" factor can vary between now & election time.
The recent trend (within the last 1.5 to 2 weeks) definitely seems to be favoring Romney.
Here will do the avg.
RCP Average 4/27 - 5/10 -- 46.6 45.6 Obama +1.0
Yeah, and the "RCP Average" had been Obama 7+ in past weeks. Even if we just went by that alone, the recent trend has favored Romney. Would you not be concerned about that if you were Obama?
And like I said, I put more stock in the Likely Voter (LV) polls than Registered Voter polls.
But I'm not getting my hopes up & would put money on Obama winning a narrow victory.
Quote from: Valmy on May 11, 2012, 09:04:33 AM
Quote from: PDH on May 11, 2012, 09:00:13 AM
I love Hans, he can trivialize the damning and make damning the trivial - all depending on who it is aimed at.
I know it is hilarious. Does he really believe his own bullshit?
He is the anti-Raz, or Raz is the anti-Hans. Anyway, if they ever meet they will explode in a fountain of crap. If scientists examine this event correctly it will display new political particles that will further the advancement of bullshit by thousands of years.
-edited so it actually makes some sense
Quote from: Valmy on May 11, 2012, 09:26:55 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 11, 2012, 09:23:19 AM
Oh really? You reply to every thread now?
Besides if you don't like a thread feel free not to participate.
Only if I have something to say about it.
And not liking something is plenty of reason to comment and participate you do that all the time. In fact you are doing it now. So WTF?
Gentlemen, lets not get our truffles in a ruffle.
Quote from: PDH on May 11, 2012, 09:28:30 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 11, 2012, 09:04:33 AM
Quote from: PDH on May 11, 2012, 09:00:13 AM
I love Hans, he can trivialize the damning and make damning the trivial - all depending on who it is aimed at.
I know it is hilarious. Does he really believe his own bullshit?
He is the anti-Raz, or Raz is the anti-Hans. Anyway if they ever meet they explode in a fountain of crap if scientists examine correctly will display new political particals that will further the advancement of bullshit by thousands of years.
:lol:
Is anyone not a douchebag in High School? Why is this newsworthy? If this is the worst thing that Romney has done, he's led a pretty damn noble life.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 11, 2012, 09:29:51 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 11, 2012, 09:26:55 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 11, 2012, 09:23:19 AM
Oh really? You reply to every thread now?
Besides if you don't like a thread feel free not to participate.
Only if I have something to say about it.
And not liking something is plenty of reason to comment and participate you do that all the time. In fact you are doing it now. So WTF?
Gentlemen, lets not get our truffles in a ruffle.
If only I was currently eating truffles.
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 09:28:13 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 11, 2012, 09:09:28 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 09:06:44 AM
11B, only the first handful of those polls are relevant, since most are older samples of recently-updated polls. I would also weight the polls of likely voters more heavily than those of registered voters, even though the "likely" factor can vary between now & election time.
The recent trend (within the last 1.5 to 2 weeks) definitely seems to be favoring Romney.
Here will do the avg.
RCP Average 4/27 - 5/10 -- 46.6 45.6 Obama +1.0
Yeah, and the "RCP Average" had been Obama 7+ in past weeks. Even if we just went by that alone, the recent trend has favored Romney. Would you not be concerned about that if you were Obama?
And like I said, I put more stock in the Likely Voter (LV) polls than Registered Voter polls.
But I'm not getting my hopes up & would put money on Obama winning a narrow victory.
The problem for Obama is that in none of the serious polls (i.e. that don't have an unusually large bias) can he seem to get above 45%. And this has been so for a very long time. No incumbent has ever won in such a position, which is why I wonder why people think this time will be different. All traditional indicators of electoral outcome say that Obama will lose, and will lose by a wide margin. Unless some eartshattering event happens that completely transforms the race Obama has no chance.
Prime Minister Macmillan when asked what his greatest fear was said "events, dear boy, events" and that is the only thing that can change the current trajectory.
Of course events rarely favor incumbents during election years.
Quote from: Hansmeister on May 11, 2012, 09:46:09 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 09:28:13 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 11, 2012, 09:09:28 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 09:06:44 AM
11B, only the first handful of those polls are relevant, since most are older samples of recently-updated polls. I would also weight the polls of likely voters more heavily than those of registered voters, even though the "likely" factor can vary between now & election time.
The recent trend (within the last 1.5 to 2 weeks) definitely seems to be favoring Romney.
Here will do the avg.
RCP Average 4/27 - 5/10 -- 46.6 45.6 Obama +1.0
Yeah, and the "RCP Average" had been Obama 7+ in past weeks. Even if we just went by that alone, the recent trend has favored Romney. Would you not be concerned about that if you were Obama?
And like I said, I put more stock in the Likely Voter (LV) polls than Registered Voter polls.
But I'm not getting my hopes up & would put money on Obama winning a narrow victory.
The problem for Obama is that in none of the serious polls (i.e. that don't have an unusually large bias) can he seem to get above 45%. And this has been so for a very long time. No incumbent has ever won in such a position, which is why I wonder why people think this time will be different. All traditional indicators of electoral outcome say that Obama will lose, and will lose by a wide margin. Unless some eartshattering event happens that completely transforms the race Obama has no chance.
Prime Minister Macmillan when asked what his greatest fear was said "events, dear boy, events" and that is the only thing that can change the current trajectory.
Of course events rarely favor incumbents during election years.
You should really tryout as an intern at Fox News. :yawn:
Quote from: Hansmeister on May 11, 2012, 09:46:09 AM
The problem for Obama is that in none of the serious polls (i.e. that don't have an unusually large bias) can he seem to get above 45%. And this has been so for a very long time. No incumbent has ever won in such a position, which is why I wonder why people think this time will be different.
For me, it's probably pessimism as much as anything. I think you're right about Obama hitting a glass ceiling on the % of voters who will vote to keep him in office, and there are many things that are working against him.
But my gut still tells me that Romney will fall just short of making a case for swing voters to dump Obama & vote for him instead.
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 09:58:15 AM
But my gut still tells me that Romney will fall just short of making a case for swing voters to dump Obama & vote for him instead.
Hans knows it too.
"Poor soul, he' just too high strung"
"The strain is more than he can bear"
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 09:58:15 AM
Quote from: Hansmeister on May 11, 2012, 09:46:09 AM
The problem for Obama is that in none of the serious polls (i.e. that don't have an unusually large bias) can he seem to get above 45%. And this has been so for a very long time. No incumbent has ever won in such a position, which is why I wonder why people think this time will be different.
For me, it's probably pessimism as much as anything. I think you're right about Obama hitting a glass ceiling on the % of voters who will vote to keep him in office, and there are many things that are working against him.
But my gut still tells me that Romney will fall just short of making a case for swing voters to dump Obama & vote for him instead.
Romney doesn't have to make the case for himself. He only has to make the case against Obama, which is very easy to do. "Are you better off than you were 4 years ago" worked for Reagan and for Clinton, and will work for Romney as well.
Remember, Clinton was not popular in '92, but he won on that argument (and not just because of Perot, exit polls at the time showed that Perot voters would've mostly gone to Clinton if he had not been on the ticket).
Romney has to make one argument: "Do you think if Obama is reelected he will do a better job than the first time around?"
That's it. Against that Obama can put that Romney once had a dog on the top of his car and bullied hippies in High School.
Obamatons can delude themselves in believing that 6 months of Romney-bashing will bring victory, but that is pure fantasy.
Man that Kool-Aid your trying to serve is 100 Proof vintage Jonestown.
Quote from: Hansmeister on May 11, 2012, 10:44:32 AM
Romney doesn't have to make the case for himself. He only has to make the case against Obama, which is very easy to do. "Are you better off than you were 4 years ago" worked for Reagan and for Clinton, and will work for Romney as well.
:huh: Everybody is better off than they were four years ago.
Quote from: Hansmeister on May 11, 2012, 10:44:32 AM
Romney doesn't have to make the case for himself. He only has to make the case against Obama, which is very easy to do. "Are you better off than you were 4 years ago" worked for Reagan and for Clinton, and will work for Romney as well.
Remember, Clinton was not popular in '92, but he won on that argument (and not just because of Perot, exit polls at the time showed that Perot voters would've mostly gone to Clinton if he had not been on the ticket).
Romney has to make one argument: "Do you think if Obama is reelected he will do a better job than the first time around?"
That's it. Against that Obama can put that Romney once had a dog on the top of his car and bullied hippies in High School.
Obamatons can delude themselves in believing that 6 months of Romney-bashing will bring victory, but that is pure fantasy.
Bush-41 and Carter are relevant examples, but unfortunately Bush-43 in 2004 is as well. I checked his approval numbers and they were almost exactly the same in mid-May 2004 as Obama's are now. He was able to squeak by against a pretty bad candidate. If Mitt doesn't bring his A-game, I fear that Obama may do the same.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 11, 2012, 10:55:24 AM
Quote from: Hansmeister on May 11, 2012, 10:44:32 AM
Romney doesn't have to make the case for himself. He only has to make the case against Obama, which is very easy to do. "Are you better off than you were 4 years ago" worked for Reagan and for Clinton, and will work for Romney as well.
:huh: Everybody is better off than they were four years ago.
Cant disagree. But i did like old GW. Like the old regular drunk at the local watering hole. GW was comedic gold. Something that I will probably only see once in my lifetime.
What Hans doesnt realize is that I only say Obama will win. Not that I support him. I'm center, leaning a tade to the right. UNDECIDED.
I see Romney as an elitist snob. He offers nothing right now.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 11, 2012, 10:55:24 AM
:huh: Everybody is better off than they were four years ago.
How do you figure that? Unemployment was 5.8% in 2008 and it's 8.2% now (not sure if that's before or after the weekly "revised upward" figure). Gas prices are double what they were when Obama took office.
Regardless of whose fault things actually are, your statement is hard to defend unless you're trying to make some vague philosophical statement.
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 11:07:25 AM
How do you figure that? Unemployment was 5.8% in 2008 and it's 8.2% now (not sure if that's before or after the weekly "revised upward" figure). Gas prices are double what they were when Obama took office.
Regardless of whose fault things actually are, your statement is hard to defend unless you're trying to make some vague philosophical statement.
Was unemployment really that low in IV Q 08? Anyway, I'm talking about the trough of the recession.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 11, 2012, 11:10:36 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 11:07:25 AM
How do you figure that? Unemployment was 5.8% in 2008 and it's 8.2% now (not sure if that's before or after the weekly "revised upward" figure). Gas prices are double what they were when Obama took office.
Regardless of whose fault things actually are, your statement is hard to defend unless you're trying to make some vague philosophical statement.
Was unemployment really that low in IV Q 08? Anyway, I'm talking about the trough of the recession.
Dunno, possibly not. That was a yearly figure for 2008.
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 11:07:25 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 11, 2012, 10:55:24 AM
:huh: Everybody is better off than they were four years ago.
How do you figure that? Unemployment was 5.8% in 2008 and it's 8.2% now (not sure if that's before or after the weekly "revised upward" figure). Gas prices are double what they were when Obama took office.
Regardless of whose fault things actually are, your statement is hard to defend unless you're trying to make some vague philosophical statement.
It was 7.2% and rising rapidly (1.5m jobs lost that quarter). GDP contracted by 3.8% (annualised).
Quote from: Valmy on May 11, 2012, 09:04:33 AM
I know it is hilarious. Does he really believe his own bullshit?
As I've said before, he's either a Democrat and very good at what he does, or a Republican and very bad at what he does.
Quote from: Maximus on May 11, 2012, 11:57:48 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 11, 2012, 09:04:33 AM
I know it is hilarious. Does he really believe his own bullshit?
As I've said before, he's either a Democrat and very good at what he does, or a Republican and very bad at what he does.
Or maybe just that 90% of this forum is hostile towards Republicans.
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 12:05:46 PM
Or maybe just that 90% of this forum is hostile towards Republicans.
Then maybe you should go back to EUOT, where 90% of the forum is hostile towards Americans. It'll be fairer that way. :P
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 12:05:46 PM
Or maybe just that 90% of this forum is hostile towards Republicans.
Possibly as a result of Hans' years of labor.
Quote from: Maximus on May 11, 2012, 12:12:59 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 12:05:46 PM
Or maybe just that 90% of this forum is hostile towards Republicans.
Possibly as a result of Hans' years of labor.
Kinda like how, thanks to Martinus, 90% of the forum is now hostile to homosexuals. :lol:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 12:10:53 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 12:05:46 PM
Or maybe just that 90% of this forum is hostile towards Republicans.
Then maybe you should go back to EUOT, where 90% of the forum is hostile towards Americans. It'll be fairer that way. :P
I've been meaning to do that actually, for a laugh.
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 12:15:11 PM
I've been meaning to do that actually, for a laugh.
You'll last 15 minutes, like I do.
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 12:05:46 PM
Quote from: Maximus on May 11, 2012, 11:57:48 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 11, 2012, 09:04:33 AM
I know it is hilarious. Does he really believe his own bullshit?
As I've said before, he's either a Democrat and very good at what he does, or a Republican and very bad at what he does.
Or maybe just that 90% of this forum is hostile towards Republicans.
You guys have it tough we gotta recognize with all those retards spewing the most inane shit 24/7.
I'm conflicted on anti-gay bullying.
Quote from: Martinus on May 11, 2012, 12:57:39 PM
I'm conflicted on anti-gay bullying.
Must be the gay Dom shortage.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 01:03:47 PM
Quote from: Martinus on May 11, 2012, 12:57:39 PM
I'm conflicted on anti-gay bullying.
Must be the gay Dom shortage.
I'm anti-anti-gay but pro-bullying. :P
But seriously, I have never been bullied and every time I hear about people being bullied for being "gay", it looks like they are in fact bullied for being weirdos. Which there is nothing wrong with per se if you are prepared to own it. The kid in the story, for example, was not really bullied for being gay, but for wearing bleached-blond bangs. :yuk:
garbon has had purple hair for years now. He's not weird.
Quote from: The Brain on May 11, 2012, 01:16:00 PM
garbon has had purple hair for years now. He's not weird.
:D
Quote from: Hansmeister on May 11, 2012, 08:52:42 AM
:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:
The NYTimes? Really? Ayers and Obama were close friends for nearly two decades and shared the same office for years.
And of course the reason the charges were dropped were due to the evidence having been obtained through illegal wiretaps, not because of lack of guilt. Heck, Ayers himself proudly proclaimed his guilt, or as he put it "guilty as sin, free as a bird, what a great country". Probably the only time in his life he spoke well of the USA.
Hans you must have missed my post. I did asked who the "murderous terrorists" were and who they murdered. I also posted a Washington Post article you requested. While you are at it, why not post the evidence that Mr. Ayer's was a "Close friend" of Obama.
Quote from: The Brain on May 11, 2012, 01:16:00 PM
garbon has had purple hair for years now. He's not weird.
Nor am I bullied. :)
Quote from: garbon on May 11, 2012, 01:27:42 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 11, 2012, 01:16:00 PM
garbon has had purple hair for years now. He's not weird.
Nor am I bullied. :)
I've met the man. He'll cut your face.
Did you stick it to him?
Good God, were you all monsters in school?
I get that a person can change, and I wouldn't make much of this, but I don't think that this is normal behavior either.
Quote from: Faeelin on May 11, 2012, 01:37:10 PM
Good God, were you all monsters in school?
I get that a person can change, and I wouldn't make much of this, but I don't think that this is normal behavior either.
I used to get beat up in school all the time. In fact, that's about when I started going insane. When I was in high school I got a job and used the money to hire people to beat up people who used to trouble me. When I ran out of money I began to do it myself.
Quote from: Faeelin on May 11, 2012, 01:37:10 PM
Good God, were you all monsters in school?
I get that a person can change, and I wouldn't make much of this, but I don't think that this is normal behavior either.
I dabbled in some light bullying back in the day. My older brothers used to bully & tease me all the time, so it seemed like the natural order of things.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 11, 2012, 01:39:47 PM
When I was in high school I got a job and used the money to hire people to beat up people who used to trouble me. When I ran out of money I began to do it myself.
How did that make you feel?
What's a tortoise?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 11, 2012, 10:55:24 AM
Quote from: Hansmeister on May 11, 2012, 10:44:32 AM
Romney doesn't have to make the case for himself. He only has to make the case against Obama, which is very easy to do. "Are you better off than you were 4 years ago" worked for Reagan and for Clinton, and will work for Romney as well.
:huh: Everybody is better off than they were four years ago.
yeah if the start date is Inauguration Day Obama in 1/09, it's a rout.
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 02:11:16 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 11, 2012, 01:39:47 PM
When I was in high school I got a job and used the money to hire people to beat up people who used to trouble me. When I ran out of money I began to do it myself.
How did that make you feel?
I didn't feel anything.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 11, 2012, 03:20:52 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 02:11:16 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 11, 2012, 01:39:47 PM
When I was in high school I got a job and used the money to hire people to beat up people who used to trouble me. When I ran out of money I began to do it myself.
How did that make you feel?
I didn't feel anything.
Then you need to learn to feel.
Quote from: Faeelin on May 11, 2012, 01:37:10 PM
Good God, were you all monsters in school?
I get that a person can change, and I wouldn't make much of this, but I don't think that this is normal behavior either.
I would never have imagined any amount of bullying at my HS - we all desperately wanted to regard ourselves as adults and sophisticated, bullying would be so very grade-school. The only ones who indulged in in were the brain-dead rocker types, and all they did was bluster about
imagined bullying and gay-bashing, because they thought it made them look tough. They never, as far as I know, actually attempted any in the school itself.
The interests at my HS were sex and drugs, not bullying.
Not that everyone was nice to each other. Not at all. But physical bullying? No.
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 03:27:51 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 11, 2012, 03:20:52 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 02:11:16 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 11, 2012, 01:39:47 PM
When I was in high school I got a job and used the money to hire people to beat up people who used to trouble me. When I ran out of money I began to do it myself.
How did that make you feel?
I didn't feel anything.
Then you need to learn to feel.
Did you feel good bullying people?
Quote from: Razgovory on May 11, 2012, 03:32:55 PM
Did you feel good bullying people?
Well, yeah. Isn't that the point?
FWIW, I guess I never really physically bullied.
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 03:39:27 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 11, 2012, 03:32:55 PM
Did you feel good bullying people?
Well, yeah. Isn't that the point?
FWIW, I guess I never really physically bullied.
I have no idea why you assholes do anything.
Gah, speaking about HS and rockers brought on a wave of nostagia. I wonder whatever happened to that one rocker chick I was heavily into.
She was dumb as a bag of hammers but she was drop-dead beautiful. Probably covered in tats all wrinkly and sagging and working on her third husband. :lol:
Quote from: PDH on May 11, 2012, 09:28:30 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 11, 2012, 09:04:33 AM
Quote from: PDH on May 11, 2012, 09:00:13 AM
I love Hans, he can trivialize the damning and make damning the trivial - all depending on who it is aimed at.
I know it is hilarious. Does he really believe his own bullshit?
He is the anti-Raz, or Raz is the anti-Hans. Anyway, if they ever meet they will explode in a fountain of crap. If scientists examine this event correctly it will display new political particles that will further the advancement of bullshit by thousands of years.
-edited so it actually makes some sense
I don't think he's anywhere near Raz on the insanity scale. Raz is actually capable of reasoning, Hans is just a propaganda drone with zero ability to comprehend anything not covered by daily GOP talking points he rote-memorized.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 11, 2012, 03:42:38 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 03:39:27 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 11, 2012, 03:32:55 PM
Did you feel good bullying people?
Well, yeah. Isn't that the point?
FWIW, I guess I never really physically bullied.
I have no idea why you assholes do anything.
The more I think back, it may even be a stretch to call what I did bullying. It was more just teasing/goofing around, with a prank here & there, and a lot of times it was a two-way street.
I was bullied by the same kid from 3rd grade to 9th grade...my parents were constantly getting nowhere with the school and his mother for years. Drove my parents nuts. Drove me nuts in fear. First week of school from 7th to 9th grade was the week I determined my paths to class, in order to avoid him.
The bullying ended the day he was giving my shoes blowouts from behind on the way back to class from lunch, and after telling him a couple times to stop and he wouldn't, I turned around and stabbed him in the face with a fucking pencil. I actually tried to put it directly through his cheek, but it just sort of glanced off his cheekbone and just went under the skin.
Only caught 1 day suspension, which my parents had absolutely no problem with. Not with never getting anywhere with school for years, not with that bastard.
That was the last day I was ever bulllied by him, or anybody else for that fucking matter.
So there's a lesson there, kids.
Quote from: DGuller on May 11, 2012, 03:44:02 PM
I don't think he's anywhere near Raz on the insanity scale. Raz is actually capable of reasoning, Hans is just a propaganda drone with zero ability to comprehend anything not covered by daily GOP talking points he rote-memorized.
You guys say that, but very often nobody will challenge any of the substance of what he's saying. You just call him names & make it known that certain opinions are not welcome here.
The only knock I have on Hans is that he sometimes resorts too quickly to name-calling. Not that he's the only one here guilty of that.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 03:49:57 PM
I was bullied by the same kid from 3rd grade to 9th grade...my parents were constantly getting nowhere with the school and his mother for years. Drove my parents nuts. Drove me nuts in fear. First week of school from 7th to 9th grade was the week I determined my paths to class, in order to avoid him.
The bullying ended the day he was giving my shoes blowouts from behind on the way back to class from lunch, and after telling him a couple times to stop and he wouldn't, I turned around and stabbed him in the face with a fucking pencil. I actually tried to put it directly through his cheek, but it just sort of glanced off his cheekbone and just went under the skin.
Only caught 1 day suspension, which my parents had absolutely no problem with. Not with never getting anywhere with school for years, not with that bastard.
That was the last day I was ever bulllied by him, or anybody else for that fucking matter.
So there's a lesson there, kids.
Fascinating war story, Siege.
There was no bullying at my HS. We didn't eat paste either.
I wasn't bullied and I never bullied. I was a class socialist, I'd always be willing to get into arguments with teachers but I don't remember ever being cruel or pranking them - like walking a blind guy into a door.
Having said that no-one should be judged for what they did at high school. But I still think Romney's lying when he says he doesn't remember this. He should have said 'yeah this happened, I'm sorry to those, but I was a jerk at high school - that happens'.
QuoteYou guys say that, but very often nobody will challenge any of the substance of what he's saying. You just call him names & make it known that certain opinions are not welcome here.
I'll argue substance with people, if I think there's actually a dialogue going on and our minds could be changed. I don't think that's the case with Hans.
Edit: There was bullying at my high school and I just largely ignored it though :Embarrass:
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 03:50:37 PM
Quote from: DGuller on May 11, 2012, 03:44:02 PM
I don't think he's anywhere near Raz on the insanity scale. Raz is actually capable of reasoning, Hans is just a propaganda drone with zero ability to comprehend anything not covered by daily GOP talking points he rote-memorized.
You guys say that, but very often nobody will challenge any of the substance of what he's saying. You just call him names & make it known that certain opinions are not welcome here.
The only knock I have on Hans is that he sometimes resorts too quickly to name-calling. Not that he's the only one here guilty of that.
He's almost always challenged in the substance of what he's saying. I just did. Last time he showed up he got trounced when he was going on about illegal combatants. His statements were factually and legally incorrect. There is a clear pattern with Hans. He makes some claim, it gets debunked and he skulks away.
Quote from: Malthus on May 11, 2012, 03:43:16 PM
Gah, speaking about HS and rockers brought on a wave of nostagia. I wonder whatever happened to that one rocker chick I was heavily into.
She was dumb as a bag of hammers but she was drop-dead beautiful. Probably covered in tats all wrinkly and sagging and working on her third husband. :lol:
Nostalgia like this is why Facebook was invented. :shifty:
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 03:50:37 PM
Quote from: DGuller on May 11, 2012, 03:44:02 PM
I don't think he's anywhere near Raz on the insanity scale. Raz is actually capable of reasoning, Hans is just a propaganda drone with zero ability to comprehend anything not covered by daily GOP talking points he rote-memorized.
You guys say that, but very often nobody will challenge any of the substance of what he's saying. You just call him names & make it known that certain opinions are not welcome here.
The only knock I have on Hans is that he sometimes resorts too quickly to name-calling. Not that he's the only one here guilty of that.
Is there anything to challenge? Back when Hans's rabies was still in the incubation stage, people did try to debate him on substance, only to realize that it was like arguing with your TV (tuned to Fox News, of course). These days he really needs to be put in a straitjacket, he's become just a worthless retard spammer.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 03:49:57 PM
I was bullied by the same kid from 3rd grade to 9th grade...my parents were constantly getting nowhere with the school and his mother for years. Drove my parents nuts. Drove me nuts in fear. First week of school from 7th to 9th grade was the week I determined my paths to class, in order to avoid him.
The bullying ended the day he was giving my shoes blowouts from behind on the way back to class from lunch, and after telling him a couple times to stop and he wouldn't, I turned around and stabbed him in the face with a fucking pencil. I actually tried to put it directly through his cheek, but it just sort of glanced off his cheekbone and just went under the skin.
Only caught 1 day suspension, which my parents had absolutely no problem with. Not with never getting anywhere with school for years, not with that bastard.
That was the last day I was ever bulllied by him, or anybody else for that fucking matter.
So there's a lesson there, kids.
Goddamn :blink:
When I was in first grade two of my best friends started picking on me every morning at the bus stop. Not sure how it happened, other than the fact that they lived across the street from each other & were for a time a little closer to each other than with me. Anyway, it went on for three weeks and was progressively getting worse.
Finally one morning as the bus was pulling up and we were getting in line, one of them got a little too close to me as he was calling me a name or something. Without even thinking, I snapped and punched him as hard as I could in the face, giving him what later became the mother of all black eyes. I'l never forget his immediate reaction of laughing for a couple seconds before he realized the pain, then bawling uncontrollably. My other friend just looked like he had seen a ghost.
The bus ride to school was interesting-- the other first graders and second graders were too scared to talk to me, and the third graders started telling me about the paddle the principal had in is office. I knew the safety patrol saw the whole thing, so I had a feeling of dread all morning all the way up through my slow march of death from my classroom to the principal's office.
I must have looked awfully upset, because the principal showed some mercy on me & calmly told me that fighting was never the way to settle any disputes. I knew he was full of shit but played along. Ended up getting no punishment whatsoever, and a couple of days later I was getting along with my friends again as if nothing ever happened.
The only other time I got picked on was my first year of high school, but that was just some of my brother's friends (he graduated the year before I started HS) giving me shit for the first couple of months. Ended up being almost like an initiation-- I tolerated it and after a couple months they not only left me alone but let me hang out with them.
Quote from: Barrister on May 11, 2012, 04:03:05 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 11, 2012, 03:43:16 PM
Gah, speaking about HS and rockers brought on a wave of nostagia. I wonder whatever happened to that one rocker chick I was heavily into.
She was dumb as a bag of hammers but she was drop-dead beautiful. Probably covered in tats all wrinkly and sagging and working on her third husband. :lol:
Nostalgia like this is why Facebook was invented. :shifty:
Heh, I might check it out - if I could remember her last name. :lol: There's always the yearbook ...
It's one of the regrets of my mis-spent youth that I came *so* close to having sex with her, only to mess everything up ... :Embarrass:
Quote from: Barrister on May 11, 2012, 04:03:05 PM
Quote from: Malthus on May 11, 2012, 03:43:16 PM
Gah, speaking about HS and rockers brought on a wave of nostagia. I wonder whatever happened to that one rocker chick I was heavily into.
She was dumb as a bag of hammers but she was drop-dead beautiful. Probably covered in tats all wrinkly and sagging and working on her third husband. :lol:
Nostalgia like this is why Facebook was invented. :shifty:
:blush: Yeah, pretty much.
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 11, 2012, 03:57:58 PM
Having said that no-one should be judged for what they did at high school. But I still think Romney's lying when he says he doesn't remember this. He should have said 'yeah this happened, I'm sorry to those, but I was a jerk at high school - that happens'.
I disagree--I think he was 18 in the story, and if not he was close to it. Getting a group of people together to attack and then cut the hair of a guy that is suspected of being gay (or at least different) is criminal. If a story like this came up and the students went to jail, I don't think anyone would be appalled by a criminal charge.
He can't admit that he remembers doing the things in the story because they are actually really bad. Until he admits them, the reporting of the story has to reflect some possibility that it isn't true.
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 11, 2012, 03:57:58 PM
I wasn't bullied and I never bullied. I was a class socialist, I'd always be willing to get into arguments with teachers but I don't remember ever being cruel or pranking them - like walking a blind guy into a door.
Is class socialist kind of like class clown? :D
QuoteHaving said that no-one should be judged for what they did at high school. But I still think Romney's lying when he says he doesn't remember this. He should have said 'yeah this happened, I'm sorry to those, but I was a jerk at high school - that happens'.
It has been nearly 50 years since the alleged incident. I'm sure when there's that much time between me & my high school years, I'll have forgotten a lot of stuff I did, good or bad. And there's a good chance that the story itself might be a bit different than it was originally reported.
Quote from: alfred russel on May 11, 2012, 04:14:40 PM
I disagree--I think he was 18 in the story, and if not he was close to it. Getting a group of people together to attack and then cut the hair of a guy that is suspected of being gay (or at least different) is criminal. If a story like this came up and the students went to jail, I don't think anyone would be appalled by a criminal charge.
Jeez, overreact much? :huh:
Whore pills were involved somehow.
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 04:16:26 PM
And there's a good chance that the story itself might be a bit different than it was originally reported.
Which is a good point (I doubt reporters can get anything right). If there is some truth to the story but the details differ, better to just say you don't remember than to get into a multi news cycle back and forth about what really happened.
Jesus Christ.
I don't give a fuck what Mitt Romney did in high school. I don't give a fuck where Obama was born, I didn't give a fuck whether Bill Clinton inhaled in college, or any of the myriad of inane little details your politicians seem to obsess over.
Bah, I'm 46 and I can still remember doing that line of angel dust off the hooker's ass cheek in the Tans Am while we were doing 95mph down I-70 running from the cops on that weapons charge. And I was 14 then.
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 04:18:35 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on May 11, 2012, 04:14:40 PM
I disagree--I think he was 18 in the story, and if not he was close to it. Getting a group of people together to attack and then cut the hair of a guy that is suspected of being gay (or at least different) is criminal. If a story like this came up and the students went to jail, I don't think anyone would be appalled by a criminal charge.
Jeez, overreact much? :huh:
I would expect criminal charges if a group of 18 years olds jumped me and cut off my hair. And I have a lot less hair than the average high school student. :(
Quote from: alfred russel on May 11, 2012, 04:21:42 PM
Which is a good point (I doubt reporters can get anything right). If there is some truth to the story but the details differ, better to just say you don't remember than to get into a multi news cycle back and forth about what really happened.
What if you legitimately don't remember? You know that happens when you lead an eventful life & grow old.
Quote from: Barrister on May 11, 2012, 04:21:58 PM
Jesus Christ.
I don't give a fuck what Mitt Romney did in high school. I don't give a fuck where Obama was born, I didn't give a fuck whether Bill Clinton inhaled in college, or any of the myriad of inane little details your politicians seem to obsess over.
:o *GASP* *GASP* *HORRORIFIED*..........................Then what would be talked about :unsure:....................the issues. How dare you sir. :P
Quote from: The Brain on May 11, 2012, 03:52:02 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 03:49:57 PM
I was bullied by the same kid from 3rd grade to 9th grade...my parents were constantly getting nowhere with the school and his mother for years. Drove my parents nuts. Drove me nuts in fear. First week of school from 7th to 9th grade was the week I determined my paths to class, in order to avoid him.
The bullying ended the day he was giving my shoes blowouts from behind on the way back to class from lunch, and after telling him a couple times to stop and he wouldn't, I turned around and stabbed him in the face with a fucking pencil. I actually tried to put it directly through his cheek, but it just sort of glanced off his cheekbone and just went under the skin.
Only caught 1 day suspension, which my parents had absolutely no problem with. Not with never getting anywhere with school for years, not with that bastard.
That was the last day I was ever bulllied by him, or anybody else for that fucking matter.
So there's a lesson there, kids.
Fascinating war story, Siege.
It worked.
Well, the thing is Romney's kind of a dick. This childhood story is believable because it supports that.
Just like most of the stories about Obama's childhood brought up in supports the narrative that he's not at all an average white guy but rather at least a little bit foreign.
I was never bullied in US, but I've had a long-running feud with two classmates in Ukraine. Both of them were virulent anti-Semites (how do you even get to be a virulent anti-Semite at the age of 12 :huh:), and picked fights with me. However, the nature of those two relationships was drastically different.
The first guy was a real masochist. He was smaller than me, weaker than me, and pretty dumb. Yet, he kept consistently picking fights with me. Invariably, his provocations ended up with him on the floor having his left arm twisted behind his back. For some reason I don't understand, he kept asking for more for years, and I obliged. I guess I was a bully in that relationship, though I was never the one to provoke the confrontation.
The other guy was a sadist. Unfortunately for me, he was a really good martial artist. One on one, I had no chance. He would get close to me one way or the other, get me in a headlock, drop me to the floor, and start choking me. The only way out for me out of that situation was to exaggerate the effects of strangulation. Thankfully, the idea of choking someone to death evidently did not appeal to him, at least not then, so he let go when I did that after throwing a couple of taunts. What limited the number of such incidents is that I could count on two other martial artists and a boxer to come to my defense when that happened, and they were my classmates. Therefore, I was only really vulnerable when I was on my own, which I obviously tried to avoid when he was around.
I finally ended the bullying by the second guy on one clear morning. While he was home sleepping, I got on the plane and flew to Warsaw, and from there flew to New York, with my family. The sadist never bothered me again after that.
Quote from: alfred russel on May 11, 2012, 04:25:13 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 04:18:35 PM
Jeez, overreact much? :huh:
I would expect criminal charges if a group of 18 years olds jumped me and cut off my hair. And I have a lot less hair than the average high school student. :(
Yea, physical assault is a criminal matter. The tendency to laugh it off just because it happens in school is disgusting and makes it difficult to clamp down on that sort of thing.
Quote from: Jacob on May 11, 2012, 04:31:30 PM
Well, the thing is Romney's kind of a dick. This childhood story is believable because it supports that.
Just like most of the stories about Obama's childhood brought up in supports the narrative that he's not at all an average white guy but rather at least a little bit foreign.
It is sort of interesting to see which back story is of more concern to people, though: the guy that wrote a best-selling autobiography before he ran for President and is still accused of being Muslim and a non-citizen, or the millionaire with the insulated, opaque upbringing that belongs to a secretive religion whose rules are eerily similar to
Fight Club? :lol:
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 04:16:26 PM
It has been nearly 50 years since the alleged incident. I'm sure when there's that much time between me & my high school years, I'll have forgotten a lot of stuff I did, good or bad. And there's a good chance that the story itself might be a bit different than it was originally reported.
True, he could have been much, much worse.
Quote from: Maximus on May 11, 2012, 04:42:09 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on May 11, 2012, 04:25:13 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 04:18:35 PM
Jeez, overreact much? :huh:
I would expect criminal charges if a group of 18 years olds jumped me and cut off my hair. And I have a lot less hair than the average high school student. :(
Yea, physical assault is a criminal matter. The tendency to laugh it off just because it happens in school is disgusting and makes it difficult to clamp down on that sort of thing.
This having been said. It's not really relevant in this case. The statute of limitations is probably out on this one.
Quote from: Maximus on May 11, 2012, 04:49:28 PM
This having been said. It's not really relevant in this case. The statute of limitations is probably out on this one.
That, and the victim died in 2004. :lol:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 04:53:46 PM
Quote from: Maximus on May 11, 2012, 04:49:28 PM
This having been said. It's not really relevant in this case. The statute of limitations is probably out on this one.
That, and the victim died in 2004. :lol:
Well, I think somebody ought to look into how the victim died. :ph34r:
Quote from: DGuller on May 11, 2012, 05:01:40 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 04:53:46 PM
Quote from: Maximus on May 11, 2012, 04:49:28 PM
This having been said. It's not really relevant in this case. The statute of limitations is probably out on this one.
That, and the victim died in 2004. :lol:
Well, I think somebody ought to look into how the victim died. :ph34r:
The Clintons did it.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 04:53:46 PM
Quote from: Maximus on May 11, 2012, 04:49:28 PM
This having been said. It's not really relevant in this case. The statute of limitations is probably out on this one.
That, and the victim died in 2004. :lol:
Someone should look into whether the Romneys have baptised him yet.
Quote from: DGuller on May 11, 2012, 04:37:09 PM
I finally ended the bullying by the second guy on one clear morning. While he was home sleepping, I got on the plane and flew to Warsaw, and from there flew to New York, with my family. The sadist never bothered me again after that.
:D
Quote from: Jacob on May 11, 2012, 04:31:30 PM
Well, the thing is Romney's kind of a dick. This childhood story is believable because it supports that.
Just like most of the stories about Obama's childhood brought up in supports the narrative that he's not at all an average white guy but rather at least a little bit foreign.
Someone contrasted this to a story about Bush who apparently took up for a gay guy getting harrassed in college by saying, "why don't you try walking a mile in his shoes first?" You had a sense that Bush at his core was a basically decent guy. You don't get that with Romney.
Quote from: alfred russel on May 11, 2012, 04:14:40 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 11, 2012, 03:57:58 PM
Having said that no-one should be judged for what they did at high school. But I still think Romney's lying when he says he doesn't remember this. He should have said 'yeah this happened, I'm sorry to those, but I was a jerk at high school - that happens'.
I disagree--I think he was 18 in the story, and if not he was close to it. Getting a group of people together to attack and then cut the hair of a guy that is suspected of being gay (or at least different) is criminal. If a story like this came up and the students went to jail, I don't think anyone would be appalled by a criminal charge.
He can't admit that he remembers doing the things in the story because they are actually really bad. Until he admits them, the reporting of the story has to reflect some possibility that it isn't true.
See, this was in the sixties, before all that lawyer crybaby bullshit that has resulted in six-year olds getting perp-walked in cuffs.
You're everything that's wrong with the world.
Quote from: alfred russel on May 11, 2012, 05:34:31 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 04:53:46 PM
Quote from: Maximus on May 11, 2012, 04:49:28 PM
This having been said. It's not really relevant in this case. The statute of limitations is probably out on this one.
That, and the victim died in 2004. :lol:
Someone should look into whether the Romneys have baptised him yet.
:lol:
Quote from: alfred russel on May 11, 2012, 05:43:17 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 11, 2012, 04:31:30 PM
Well, the thing is Romney's kind of a dick. This childhood story is believable because it supports that.
Just like most of the stories about Obama's childhood brought up in supports the narrative that he's not at all an average white guy but rather at least a little bit foreign.
Someone contrasted this to a story about Bush who apparently took up for a gay guy getting harrassed in college by saying, "why don't you try walking a mile in his shoes first?" You had a sense that Bush at his core was a basically decent guy. You don't get that with Romney.
Bush did have a frat boy douchebag vibe about him, but yeah, I would generally agree that politics aside, he was a pretty decent guy. Romney gives off a sociopath vibe.
I always thought Mitt came across as a likable guy, even when I opposed him.
I suppose anyone who dare run against Obama becomes teh evol here though.
Quote from: Barrister on May 11, 2012, 04:21:58 PM
Jesus Christ.
I don't give a fuck what Mitt Romney did in high school.
Really? Romney, at 17 or 18 years of age, targeted, planned and then assaulted an innocent person. Seems odd to just dismiss it out of hand.
Though granted, this was back in the '60's, when fag bashing and youth violence generally was as mainstream as Tweeting.
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 06:59:12 PM
I always thought Mitt came across as a likable guy, even when I opposed him.
I suppose anyone who dare run against Obama becomes teh evol here though.
Yeah, bullies do tend to like one another. I didn't care for him to begin with, even if he is a Democrat who has infiltrated the GOP. He's like what you would get if you asked Central Casting for a guy who looked like a president.
What an amazing non-story this is, eh? A little acting up by high school kids in the 60s! The guy who claimed it bothered him for a long time apparently only learned of it from the Post a little while ago. And he heard if from a friend of a friend, or someone else did. Great story Post! Front page! Lol. The family of the guy being talked about, who is deceased, want nothing to do with this story. Apparently it wasn't gay bashing, but hey it might have been,who knows. Certianly not the supposed witnesses.
Oh, and it comes out in Pres Obama's book that he was mean to girlfriends, probably in grade school or something? Maybe a right wing newspaper can do an expose on that, find some witnesses, or those who may know a friend of a witness. Lol..
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 06:59:12 PM
I suppose anyone who dare run against Obama becomes teh evol here though.
Do people here actually like Obama? I just figured they figured he wasn't too horrible or something.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 05:05:39 PM
Quote from: DGuller on May 11, 2012, 05:01:40 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 04:53:46 PM
Quote from: Maximus on May 11, 2012, 04:49:28 PM
This having been said. It's not really relevant in this case. The statute of limitations is probably out on this one.
That, and the victim died in 2004. :lol:
Well, I think somebody ought to look into how the victim died. :ph34r:
The Clintons did it.
Indeed they did, with a cigar, in the drawing room :mad:
Quote from: Valmy on May 11, 2012, 07:24:18 PM
Do people here actually like Obama? I just figured they figured he wasn't too horrible or something.
I do. He comes across like a really likable guy who's trying his best with a really difficult Senate and House.
As for Mitt, I don't like him, but I don't dislike him, either. I feel like I don't know him, since he never really shows who he is. He just shows who he thinks people want him to be. When the few glimpses do come out, they're usually not very appealing, but I'm a snob against rich people in general.
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 06:59:12 PM
I suppose anyone who dare run against Obama becomes teh evol here though.
I don't know, man....he couldn't touch Johnny Hero in the quality department.
Unfortunately, he had a brain fart with his running mate choice.
Quote from: merithyn on May 11, 2012, 07:32:14 PM
As for Mitt, I don't like him, but I don't dislike him, either. I feel like I don't know him, since he never really shows who he is. He just shows who he thinks people want him to be. When the few glimpses do come out, they're usually not very appealing, but I'm a snob against rich people in general.
I just think he happens to be the most detached, out-of-touch candidate the GOP has ever tossed up. Granted, he was also the least insane this year (save Huntsman, who never got out of the box), but that's beside the point.
He just seems to be a very bland, garden variety, multi-millionaire :hmm:
I mean, if his eyes glazed over every now and then and he tried to save our souls with a spot of Mormon preaching...........one might actually like him more.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 07:35:41 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 06:59:12 PM
I suppose anyone who dare run against Obama becomes teh evol here though.
I don't know, man....he couldn't touch Johnny Hero in the quality department.
Unfortunately, he had a brain fart with his running mate choice.
I so getting you a signed picture from Sarah.
Quote from: katmai on May 11, 2012, 07:57:28 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 07:35:41 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 06:59:12 PM
I suppose anyone who dare run against Obama becomes teh evol here though.
I don't know, man....he couldn't touch Johnny Hero in the quality department.
Unfortunately, he had a brain fart with his running mate choice.
I so getting you a signed picture from Sarah.
:wub:
Get me a beaver snap.
Quote from: DGuller on May 11, 2012, 06:40:52 PM
Bush did have a frat boy douchebag vibe about him, but yeah, I would generally agree that politics aside, he was a pretty decent guy. Romney gives off a sociopath vibe.
I always felt that Romney and Obama gave off the same vibe: A desperate need to be loved.
Quote from: katmai on May 11, 2012, 07:57:28 PM
I so getting you a signed picture from Sarah.
And I would so whack off to it. Hottie MILF? Yes. Qualified VEEP? No.
Quote from: KRonn on May 11, 2012, 07:20:15 PM
What an amazing non-story this is, eh? A little acting up by high school kids in the 60s! The guy who claimed it bothered him for a long time apparently only learned of it from the Post a little while ago. And he heard if from a friend of a friend, or someone else did. Great story Post! Front page! Lol. The family of the guy being talked about, who is deceased, want nothing to do with this story. Apparently it wasn't gay bashing, but hey it might have been,who knows. Certianly not the supposed witnesses.
Oh, and it comes out in Pres Obama's book that he was mean to girlfriends, probably in grade school or something? Maybe a right wing newspaper can do an expose on that, find some witnesses, or those who may know a friend of a witness. Lol..
Fuck you. It's this kind of attitude that allows bullying to thrive. "Oh, it's just a little acting up". Then some one gets their balls ruptured, or their arm broken, or some kid hangs himself. Fuck you.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 03:49:57 PM
I was bullied by the same kid from 3rd grade to 9th grade...my parents were constantly getting nowhere with the school and his mother for years. Drove my parents nuts. Drove me nuts in fear. First week of school from 7th to 9th grade was the week I determined my paths to class, in order to avoid him.
The bullying ended the day he was giving my shoes blowouts from behind on the way back to class from lunch, and after telling him a couple times to stop and he wouldn't, I turned around and stabbed him in the face with a fucking pencil. I actually tried to put it directly through his cheek, but it just sort of glanced off his cheekbone and just went under the skin.
Only caught 1 day suspension, which my parents had absolutely no problem with. Not with never getting anywhere with school for years, not with that bastard.
That was the last day I was ever bulllied by him, or anybody else for that fucking matter.
So there's a lesson there, kids.
You'd be arrested for that today.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 11, 2012, 09:06:13 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 03:49:57 PM
I was bullied by the same kid from 3rd grade to 9th grade...my parents were constantly getting nowhere with the school and his mother for years. Drove my parents nuts. Drove me nuts in fear. First week of school from 7th to 9th grade was the week I determined my paths to class, in order to avoid him.
The bullying ended the day he was giving my shoes blowouts from behind on the way back to class from lunch, and after telling him a couple times to stop and he wouldn't, I turned around and stabbed him in the face with a fucking pencil. I actually tried to put it directly through his cheek, but it just sort of glanced off his cheekbone and just went under the skin.
Only caught 1 day suspension, which my parents had absolutely no problem with. Not with never getting anywhere with school for years, not with that bastard.
That was the last day I was ever bulllied by him, or anybody else for that fucking matter.
So there's a lesson there, kids.
You'd be arrested for that today.
And that is part of the problem.
Back in junior high there was a kid who was part of my social circle; he was kind of an ass and one of the bigger kids at the time. I don't think either of us really liked each other but we had so many mutual friends we always ended up in the same place at the same time. One day on the way to first period he was being a dick and calling me some stupid name they called me. I snapped and grabbed him at threw him against the lockers, grabbed him by his throat and asked him to call me that once more so I could punch him. He just clammed up and someone pulled us apart pretty quickly but he never gave me any shit anymore, and stopped being a dick in general when I was around. As far as I know nothing was ever said by anyone, no one went to a teacher or a parent. We solved the problem ourselves. That is as close as I ever came to a fight in school.
In 5th grade (10 y.o.) my best friend got into a fight with another kid over something stupid. Like any elementary school fight they just wrestled around a little bit after a couple of wild missed swings. They had to go to the principal's office but nothing really happened to them. After a couple of days the two of them ate lunch together for the next two weeks and became friends.
Back in the day we could deal with shit ourselves and usually were able to solve silly school drama much better than the adults could. Now they have to take the abuse and bottle everything up until they show up at the school and start shooting people.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 11, 2012, 09:06:13 PM
You'd be arrested for that today.
Probably.
But I wouldn't be bullied anymore.
Quote from: sbr on May 11, 2012, 09:35:24 PM
Back in the day we could deal with shit ourselves and usually were able to solve silly school drama much better than the adults could. Now they have to take the abuse and bottle everything up until they show up at the school and start shooting people.
No kidding.
Somewhere along the line in junior high school, my Dad told me: if you are ever, ever in a situation where physical conflict is inevitable--and your situational instincts will tell you right at that moment when that is--you are always to take the first shot.
None of that "real men don't hit first" bullshit. Fuck that noise. You hit first, you hit hard.
Never, ever let somebody have the opportunity to hit you and hurt you first. Because you don't know if you're getting back up for the return shot.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 09:54:12 PM
Quote from: sbr on May 11, 2012, 09:35:24 PM
Back in the day we could deal with shit ourselves and usually were able to solve silly school drama much better than the adults could. Now they have to take the abuse and bottle everything up until they show up at the school and start shooting people.
No kidding.
Somewhere along the line in junior high school, my Dad told me: if you are ever, ever in a situation where physical conflict is inevitable--and your situational instincts will tell you right at that moment when that is--you are always to take the first shot.
None of that "real men don't hit first" bullshit. Fuck that noise. You hit first, you hit hard.
Never, ever let somebody have the opportunity to hit you and hurt you first. Because you don't know if you're getting back up for the return shot.
Ole' Pappy had some good advice there.
Not like these metrosexual parents and hippie teachers noadays.
When I was in 7th grade, had just moved to Seattle. My Middle school was just a 12 block walk from home, this one kid just decided I was the one he was going to torment along with his two friends. After a few weeks of abuse and actually them fucking with my locker, one afternoon as i was walking home and they were harassing me I just turned around and beat the shit out of the leader.
And they never bothered me again.
I feel bad, I dont have any bully stories. Never got messed with.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 11, 2012, 10:08:03 PM
I feel bad, I dont have any bully stories. Never got messed with.
I have just a few, but that was because i use to be the skinny short kid till 7th grade :P
I went from being one of the most picked on kids in 7th-8th grade to one of more popular ones in 9th grade and High School? :nerd: :w00t:
Never give up.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 07:37:33 PM
Quote from: merithyn on May 11, 2012, 07:32:14 PM
As for Mitt, I don't like him, but I don't dislike him, either. I feel like I don't know him, since he never really shows who he is. He just shows who he thinks people want him to be. When the few glimpses do come out, they're usually not very appealing, but I'm a snob against rich people in general.
I just think he happens to be the most detached, out-of-touch candidate the GOP has ever tossed up. Granted, he was also the least insane this year (save Huntsman, who never got out of the box), but that's beside the point.
This.
Huntsman :(
Quote from: katmai on May 11, 2012, 10:09:21 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 11, 2012, 10:08:03 PM
I feel bad, I dont have any bully stories. Never got messed with.
I have just a few, but that was because i use to be the skinny short kid till 7th grade :P
Ah, I was always at the top of the scale inregards to height. Hell my 7 y/o daughter towers over some of the kids in her class.
Me on the left 6' age 15 or 16 cant recall exactly.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/4305_1127607841599_1569276284_30304270_4695455_n.jpg)
Quote from: 11B4V on May 11, 2012, 10:22:57 PM
6' age 15 or 16 cant recall exactly.
And you wonder why you have no bullied stories. :glare: :glare: :glare: :glare: :glare:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 10:57:28 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 11, 2012, 10:22:57 PM
6' age 15 or 16 cant recall exactly.
And you wonder why you have no bullied stories. :glare: :glare: :glare: :glare: :glare:
No shit, with Scut Farkus as his right hand man.
Quote from: sbr on May 11, 2012, 11:10:38 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 10:57:28 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 11, 2012, 10:22:57 PM
6' age 15 or 16 cant recall exactly.
And you wonder why you have no bullied stories. :glare: :glare: :glare: :glare: :glare:
No shit, with Scut Farkus as his right hand man.
I dont know the phsycology of bullies, height may have played a part. I remember other tall kids getting fucked with. Attitude maybe, dont know not an expert so I cant really comment. I was more the stoner type.
You look like you're twenty, and your chin says 'I'll break your fucking face'.
Of course nobody fucked with you.
Quote from: Habsburg on May 11, 2012, 10:16:22 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 07:37:33 PM
Quote from: merithyn on May 11, 2012, 07:32:14 PM
As for Mitt, I don't like him, but I don't dislike him, either. I feel like I don't know him, since he never really shows who he is. He just shows who he thinks people want him to be. When the few glimpses do come out, they're usually not very appealing, but I'm a snob against rich people in general.
I just think he happens to be the most detached, out-of-touch candidate the GOP has ever tossed up. Granted, he was also the least insane this year (save Huntsman, who never got out of the box), but that's beside the point.
This.
Huntsman :(
Ugh, Hunstman. The completely non-viable individual that people can wail over when they moan about our current crop. Here's a hint - if you can't get the media to say anything about you, it doesn't matter how awesome your views are.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on May 11, 2012, 07:24:42 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 05:05:39 PM
Quote from: DGuller on May 11, 2012, 05:01:40 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 11, 2012, 04:53:46 PM
Quote from: Maximus on May 11, 2012, 04:49:28 PM
This having been said. It's not really relevant in this case. The statute of limitations is probably out on this one.
That, and the victim died in 2004. :lol:
Well, I think somebody ought to look into how the victim died. :ph34r:
The Clintons did it.
Indeed they did, with a cigar, in the drawing room :mad:
:x :x :x
When I hear stories like that, it always strikes me how attitudes change and how oversensitive we have become. I have this friend who told me about the stuff from his school. He had a bully constantly targeting him - you know, tying his shoelaces, putting his dog on fire, anal rape - the annoying but usual thing those days. Then one day my friend finally snapped and burned the motherfucker's house down with his parents inside, sleeping. And the bullying stopped.
The principal called them both to his office on the next day, gave them a punch on the face, (this being a catholic school), molested them a bit, and let them go. And in the end they got to be best friends.
Someone would probably get arrested for some of that stuff today. :rolleyes:
What makes a bully target people?
Fuck, I am glad I am not from Poland.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 01:03:06 AM
What makes a bully target people?
Weakness. They are like sharks. Retarded sharks, specifically.
I think, ultimately, I blame the parents of the victim - because only if there is something screwy back at home (either parents not supportive of their weirdo kid, or parents actively rising a weirdo kid because they are themselves weirdos), you get a kid who offers a bully an interesting target. Kids who are non-weirdos or who are weirdos but have enough self-confidence not to bothered by bullying do not become targets.
It's the same as with suicide - you could find countless of reasons for people to commit suicide, but in 99% of cases there are people who suffer the same stuff but do not commit suicide - what makes the difference is in the head.
I can see that.
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2012, 01:01:38 AM
When I hear stories like that, it always strikes me how attitudes change and how oversensitive we have become. I have this friend who told me about the stuff from his school. He had a bully constantly targeting him - you know, tying his shoelaces, putting his dog on fire, anal rape - the annoying but usual thing those days. Then one day my friend finally snapped and burned the motherfucker's house down with his parents inside, sleeping. And the bullying stopped.
The principal called them both to his office on the next day, gave them a punch on the face, (this being a catholic school), molested them a bit, and let them go. And in the end they got to be best friends.
Someone would probably get arrested for some of that stuff today. :rolleyes:
Why don't you try again without the sarcasm?
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2012, 01:08:01 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 01:03:06 AM
What makes a bully target people?
Weakness. They are like sharks. Retarded sharks, specifically.
I think, ultimately, I blame the parents of the victim - because only if there is something screwy back at home (either parents not supportive of their weirdo kid, or parents actively rising a weirdo kid because they are themselves weirdos), you get a kid who offers a bully an interesting target. Kids who are non-weirdos or who are weirdos but have enough self-confidence not to bothered by bullying do not become targets.
It's the same as with suicide - you could find countless of reasons for people to commit suicide, but in 99% of cases there are people who suffer the same stuff but do not commit suicide - what makes the difference is in the head.
Again - why don't you try again without sarcasm?
I have no idea what you're honestly trying to say here.
Quote from: Barrister on May 12, 2012, 01:13:03 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2012, 01:08:01 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 01:03:06 AM
What makes a bully target people?
Weakness. They are like sharks. Retarded sharks, specifically.
I think, ultimately, I blame the parents of the victim - because only if there is something screwy back at home (either parents not supportive of their weirdo kid, or parents actively rising a weirdo kid because they are themselves weirdos), you get a kid who offers a bully an interesting target. Kids who are non-weirdos or who are weirdos but have enough self-confidence not to bothered by bullying do not become targets.
It's the same as with suicide - you could find countless of reasons for people to commit suicide, but in 99% of cases there are people who suffer the same stuff but do not commit suicide - what makes the difference is in the head.
Again - why don't you try again without sarcasm?
I have no idea what you're honestly trying to say here.
That wasn't meant to be sarcastic. And the previous post was meant to be humorous.
Quote from: Barrister on May 12, 2012, 01:13:03 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2012, 01:08:01 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 01:03:06 AM
What makes a bully target people?
Weakness. They are like sharks. Retarded sharks, specifically.
I think, ultimately, I blame the parents of the victim - because only if there is something screwy back at home (either parents not supportive of their weirdo kid, or parents actively rising a weirdo kid because they are themselves weirdos), you get a kid who offers a bully an interesting target. Kids who are non-weirdos or who are weirdos but have enough self-confidence not to bothered by bullying do not become targets.
It's the same as with suicide - you could find countless of reasons for people to commit suicide, but in 99% of cases there are people who suffer the same stuff but do not commit suicide - what makes the difference is in the head.
Again - why don't you try again without sarcasm?
I have no idea what you're honestly trying to say here.
I didnt take that as sarcasm? either paragraph.
Yeah i took it as Marti being a fucking moron as usual.
Quote from: katmai on May 12, 2012, 01:23:36 AM
Yeah i took it as Marti being a fucking moron as usual.
Exactly.
Martinus... your posts on this forum haven't lead people to think you're a troll... they've lead people to think you're an idiot. They're right.
Quote from: PRC on May 12, 2012, 01:25:04 AM
Quote from: katmai on May 12, 2012, 01:23:36 AM
Yeah i took it as Marti being a fucking moron as usual.
Exactly.
Martinus... your posts on this forum haven't lead people to think you're a troll... they've lead people to think you're an idiot. They're right.
Would somebody point out why his two paragraphs I replied too are off the reservation. I'm not seeing it.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 01:27:41 AM
Would somebody point out why his two paragraphs I replied too are off the reservation. I'm not seeing it.
Nutbar:
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2012, 01:08:01 AM
I think, ultimately, I blame the parents of the victim - because only if there is something screwy back at home (either parents not supportive of their weirdo kid, or parents actively rising a weirdo kid because they are themselves weirdos), you get a kid who offers a bully an interesting target. Kids who are non-weirdos or who are weirdos but have enough self-confidence not to bothered by bullying do not become targets.
Quote from: Barrister on May 12, 2012, 01:11:24 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2012, 01:01:38 AM
When I hear stories like that, it always strikes me how attitudes change and how oversensitive we have become. I have this friend who told me about the stuff from his school. He had a bully constantly targeting him - you know, tying his shoelaces, putting his dog on fire, anal rape - the annoying but usual thing those days. Then one day my friend finally snapped and burned the motherfucker's house down with his parents inside, sleeping. And the bullying stopped.
The principal called them both to his office on the next day, gave them a punch on the face, (this being a catholic school), molested them a bit, and let them go. And in the end they got to be best friends.
Someone would probably get arrested for some of that stuff today. :rolleyes:
Why don't you try again without the sarcasm?
That would kind of ruin the point of his post, wouldn't you think?
Quote from: PRC on May 12, 2012, 01:31:31 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 01:27:41 AM
Would somebody point out why his two paragraphs I replied too are off the reservation. I'm not seeing it.
Nutbar:
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2012, 01:08:01 AM
I think, ultimately, I blame the parents of the victim - because only if there is something screwy back at home (either parents not supportive of their weirdo kid, or parents actively rising a weirdo kid because they are themselves weirdos), you get a kid who offers a bully an interesting target. Kids who are non-weirdos or who are weirdos but have enough self-confidence not to bothered by bullying do not become targets.
OK, he's saying that the parents have a part in why their kid gets bullied. I would say this would not be the case 100% of the time. Eh, but a point.
What makes a bully tick and why?
Everyone becomes a target for a bully once or twice - that's not my point, really. I am talking about a situation when someone becomes a target for repeated bullying and this severely affects such person, to the point of serious psychological trauma or even suicide.
When this happens, there is almost always a parent's failure at the bottom of it - a gay kid does not commit suicide if he has supportive, loving parents at home*; a geek does not get bullied if parents don't dress him weird or pick clothes for him when he is 13; someone with a weird or stupid name wouldn't get bullied if his or her parents didn't name him or her that way.
I am not saying people need to conform, but it's a part of a parent's job to teach their children how to walk the line between conformity and self-expression without becoming a target.
A kid bully is just an immature mind and bullying is more of a "force of nature" - by focusing on punishing the bullies and not on teaching the bullied how not to be victimized, we are creating socially inept people who cannot cope with social pressure.
Edit: Plus, not every form of self-expression is equally valid. Some people are just weirdos and should conform. And that's again the parent's job.
*Edit 2: Of course there is also a chance that the kid is simply suffering from a mental illness. Again, not a bully's fault.
Of course, telling it like it is on a forum full of socially inept weirdos (some of them actually home schooled = failed parents) is not going to be popular. But at least I'm prepared to be bullied for that. :D
I fucking HATE peta, good Chincilla gone to waste, and right before Oper. :mad:
A little bit more realistic and actually fact-based portrayal of Romney from the WashExam:
Romney, Mr. Nice Guy byPhilip Klein Senior Editorial Writer
For the past two days, the presidential campaign has been dominated by a Washington Post story that reported Mitt Romney, in high school in 1965, led a group of bullies that pinned down another student to the ground and cut his hair. Obviously, the story makes it seem that Romney was heartless as a teenager 47 years ago. Even if the story is true, however, it's important to recognize that people are complicated and, to use a word that's been in the news a lot lately, they can evolve over time. In the years following the alleged hair cutting incident, Romney had a lot of life changing experiences, such as nearly dying in a terrible car accident in France when his was a Mormon missionary, falling in love with and marrying Ann, and raising five children. Though we hear a lot of stories that reflect Romney's callousness (Google also: "Romney dog on the roof"), we read a lot less about his generosity.
If we're going to set the standard that whether a politician has been kind to others in real life should factor into voters' decisions about whether or not to make him president, then it's only fair to highlight some of Romney's acts of charity over the course of his lifetime.
In their excellent biography The Real Romney, Boston Globe reporters Michael Kranish and Scott Helman – no cheerleaders – found many examples of Romney's private compassion. Such as:
-- In 1995, a Mormon family, the Nixons, had recently moved to the Boston area and got devastating news when two of their sons were rendered quadriplegics by a terrible car accident -- a tragedy that was compounded by the financial strain. Having heard their story, Romney called the parents to see if they'd be around on Christmas Eve. Romney, even though he didn't know the Nixons very well, showed up with Ann and his sons. They brought the injured sons a new stereo system and other gifts. According to the book, the Nixons "were floored" that Romney had not only taken an interest in them, but that he and Ann had taken time out of their busy schedule to deliver the gifts themselves and turn it into a family event to set an example. Romney also offered to pay for their sons' college educations and participated in multiple fundraisers for them over the years. "It wasn't a one time thing," the father told the authors.
-- One time, Romney found out that a church member had broken his foot by falling off a ladder trying to remover a hornet's nest. Romney showed up and devised a way of removing it from the inside of the house. "Everyone who has known Romney in the church community seems to have a story like this, about him and his family pitching in ways big and small," Kranish and Helman write. "They took chicken and asparagus soup to sick parishioners. They invited unsettled Mormon transplants to their home for lasagna." Another time, a fire broke out near where Romney lived and he "organized the gathered neighbors, and they began dashing into the house to rescue what they could: a desk, couches, books" until the fire fighters made them stop. He also helped build a playground to honor a neighbor's child who had died of cystic fibrosis. "There he was, with a hammer in his belt, the Mitt nobody sees," the neighbor, Joseph O'Donnell recounted. "Romney didn't stop there," the book reads. "About a year later, it became apparent that the park would need regular maintenance and repairs. 'The next thing I know, my wife calls me up and says, "You're not going to believe this, but Mitt Romney is down with a bunch of Boy Scouts and they're working on the park."'"
-- As I've written before, Kranish and Helman recount a perfect example of the contrast between Romney's callous public image and his personal generosity from his 1994 Senate race in Massahcusetts against Ted Kennedy. Roughly a week before the election, Romney did a campaign stop at a Boston shelter for homeless veterans. The director of the center, Ken Smith, told Romney that their budget was being hammed by the cost of milk. In his political mode, Romney awkwardly joked that they should just teach veterans how to milk cows. Obviously, that did not go over well. Quietly, Romney later called Smith and asked how he could help. The authors write: "(N)ow, instead of paying for a thousand pints a day, the shelter was paying for just five hundred. And it wasn't just some political stratagem. 'It wasn't a short-term "Let me stroke you a check,"' he said. 'It happened not once, not twice, but for a long period of time.' In fact, Smith said he understood that Romney was still supporting the shelter when Smith left in 1996."
There are numerous other examples like this, such as the better known one in which Romney shut down Bain Capital so that all the partners could search for the daughter of one of the partners who had gone missing in New York City. Obviously, we know about these stories because members of the mainstream media have reported them. See, also, this CBS report on Romney helping out a victim of California wildfires. But such stories have not been amplified in the same way as stories that feed into the idea of him being cold-hearted.
Personally, I don't think any of this should have bearing on whether or not Romney deserves to be president. But those who want to make the fact that Romney reportedly did something inexcusable in high school into a campaign issue must also grapple with his numerous acts of charity and generosity over the course of his lifetime.
Who fucking cares :rolleyes:
Quote from: derspiess on May 11, 2012, 11:07:25 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 11, 2012, 10:55:24 AM
:huh: Everybody is better off than they were four years ago.
How do you figure that? Unemployment was 5.8% in 2008 and it's 8.2% now (not sure if that's before or after the weekly "revised upward" figure). Gas prices are double what they were when Obama took office.
Regardless of whose fault things actually are, your statement is hard to defend unless you're trying to make some vague philosophical statement.
it is "only" at 8.2% due to so many people already having given up looking for jobs. If adjusted for labor participation rates prior to the recession unemployment would be around 11.3%.
And of course arguing that since the economy is not contracting any longer that we are better of is of course a silly argument. As if the economy would ever contract for 4 straight years. :rolleyes: the problem is that the economy has basically flatlined, in what has been the worst recovery since the Great Depression. The recovery has far underperformed White House expectations, so by their own measure it has been a failure.
After a steep recession you expect a "V" shape recovery, not an "L" shape. However, since most of Obama's policies have been anti-growth, it is not a surprising result.
Due to the nature of the recession (housing bubble) I didn't expect an especially vigorous recovery, but this anemic result is quite pathetic. Obama's stimulus was mainly funneling money towards special interest groups that supported him (Keynes would turn over in his grave if they were called Keynesian, ironically, this bad plan could finally discredit Keynesian economics in the minds of many despite how badly conceived it was). He then quit on the economy and focused on his Obamacare trainwreck, which took another sledgehammer to the economy by creating massive uncertainty and sharply higher labor costs. Add to it the costly Dodd-Frank bill that doesn't even address the crisis it was supposed to fix and a whirlwind of regulatory expansion that drove up business costs, and there is no surprise there is no growth. You can't really build anything any more without government approval, which takes years nowadays. Just look at the Keystone pipeline which after three years of review got another 1 year delay added on by Obama because he didn't want to face environmentalists prior to the elections. How can you have growth if every business decision entails wranglng for years with the federal government? In that case you give up and go to China instead. Or you pay out enough in bribes to get waivers, such as all those Union connected businesses who got waivers on Obamacare. Crony capitalism at its worst.
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2012, 01:51:04 AM
Everyone becomes a target for a bully once or twice - that's not my point, really. I am talking about a situation when someone becomes a target for repeated bullying and this severely affects such person, to the point of serious psychological trauma or even suicide.
When this happens, there is almost always a parent's failure at the bottom of it - a gay kid does not commit suicide if he has supportive, loving parents at home*; a geek does not get bullied if parents don't dress him weird or pick clothes for him when he is 13; someone with a weird or stupid name wouldn't get bullied if his or her parents didn't name him or her that way.
I am not saying people need to conform, but it's a part of a parent's job to teach their children how to walk the line between conformity and self-expression without becoming a target.
A kid bully is just an immature mind and bullying is more of a "force of nature" - by focusing on punishing the bullies and not on teaching the bullied how not to be victimized, we are creating socially inept people who cannot cope with social pressure.
Edit: Plus, not every form of self-expression is equally valid. Some people are just weirdos and should conform. And that's again the parent's job.
*Edit 2: Of course there is also a chance that the kid is simply suffering from a mental illness. Again, not a bully's fault.
I'm following your logic, thanks.
Except who determines an acceptable level of weirdness?
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 05:06:20 AM
Except who determines an acceptable level of weirdness?
Seems like the bully.
Which is illogical.
Why? He's the one doing the bullying. One bully's weirdo threshold may maybe lower then another. Each bully is different.
Or he might find vic's weirdness less weird than the other vic weirdness.
Because Mart was talking about failed parenting and teaching kids about the line between conformity and self-expression.
The Bully might not pick on the guy carrying D & D books or a box of Magic Cards. Yet he may pickon the Emo guy listening to My Chemical Romance.
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 05:18:45 AM
Because Mart was talking about failed parenting and teaching kids about the line between conformity and self-expression.
It's a point and not hard to follow really.
Quote
If your child is a victim of bullying, try helping him with the following strategies:
Listen carefully to your child's reports of being bullied. Be sympathetic and take the problem seriously. Be careful not to overreact or under-react.
Do not blame the victim. When a child finally works up the courage to report bullying, it isn't appropriate to criticize him for causing it or not handling the situation correctly. For example, don't ask, "Well, what did you do to bring it on?"
Realize that for a child who is being bullied, home is his refuge. Expect him to have some difficult times in dealing with victimization. Get professional help if you think your child needs it.
Encourage your child to keep talking to you. Spend extra time with him. Provide constant support and encouragement, and tell him that you love him often!
Teaching your child safety strategies
Remember that hitting back is not a choice at school and shouldn't be encouraged. In a school with a "zero tolerance policy" for physical aggression, encouraging your child to hit back may just get him expelled.
Encourage your child to walk away and tell an adult if he feels someone is about to hurt him.
Talk about safe ways to act in situations that might be dangerous. For example, identify a "safe house" or store or where he can find sanctuary if pursued by bullies. Encourage him to walk with an adult or older child. Give him a telephone number of an available adult to call if he's afraid and needs help dealing with a bullying situation.
Teach your child how to report bullying incidents to adults in an effective way. Adults are less likely to discount a child's report as "tattling" if the report includes:
What is being done to him that makes him fearful or uncomfortable
Who is doing it
What he has done to try to resolve the problem or to get the bully to quit
A clear explanation of what he needs from the adult (or what he wants the adult to do) to get the bully to quit.
Brainstorm and practice strategies with your child to avoid further victimization.
Nurturing your child's self-esteem
Educate your child about bullying and bullies. Help him put the problem in perspective and not take it personally.
Teach your child how to walk in a confident manner.
If needed, help him pay particular attention to personal grooming and social skills.
Identify and encourage your child's talents and positive attributes; doing so may help him better assert himself among his peers.
Encourage your child to make new friends. A new environment can provide a "new chance" for a victimized student, as he won't be subjected to the negative stereotype other classmates have of him. Encourage him to make contact with calm and friendly students in his school. Such action may require some assistance on your part, or perhaps a school mental health professional, to develop the child's skills at initiating contact and maintaining a friendship relationship. This is especially true if your child's learning problems make his social interactions difficult. Be sure to provide ongoing support and encouragement, because your child, due to earlier failures, will tend to give up in the face of even slight adversities.
Encourage your child to participate in physical training or sports, even if he's reluctant. Physical exercise can result in better physical coordination and less body anxiety, which, in turn, is likely to increase self-confidence and improve peer relationships.
QuoteIf needed, help him pay particular attention to personal grooming
This cannot be stressed enough.
I mean...come on now.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.fjcdn.com%2Fpictures%2FFAT_812df9_1836456.jpg&hash=7756f0a7a1cce84e5d839f0d5baab10dd6b189ee)
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 05:21:04 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 05:18:45 AM
Because Mart was talking about failed parenting and teaching kids about the line between conformity and self-expression.
It's a point and not hard to follow really.
A bad point if bullies are deciding what is acceptable.
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 05:56:50 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 05:21:04 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 05:18:45 AM
Because Mart was talking about failed parenting and teaching kids about the line between conformity and self-expression.
It's a point and not hard to follow really.
A bad point if bullies are deciding what is acceptable.
Acceptable in their world or who they pick on?
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 05:56:50 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 05:21:04 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 05:18:45 AM
Because Mart was talking about failed parenting and teaching kids about the line between conformity and self-expression.
It's a point and not hard to follow really.
A bad point if bullies are deciding what is acceptable.
Do you want to be happy or do you want to be right?
Quote from: The Brain on May 12, 2012, 06:05:33 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 05:56:50 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 05:21:04 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 05:18:45 AM
Because Mart was talking about failed parenting and teaching kids about the line between conformity and self-expression.
It's a point and not hard to follow really.
A bad point if bullies are deciding what is acceptable.
Do you want to be happy or do you want to be right?
Unsure of your target.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 06:08:22 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 12, 2012, 06:05:33 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 05:56:50 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 05:21:04 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 05:18:45 AM
Because Mart was talking about failed parenting and teaching kids about the line between conformity and self-expression.
It's a point and not hard to follow really.
A bad point if bullies are deciding what is acceptable.
Do you want to be happy or do you want to be right?
Unsure of your target.
Gay racially confused man with purple hair.
Quote from: The Brain on May 12, 2012, 06:12:55 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 06:08:22 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 12, 2012, 06:05:33 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 05:56:50 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 05:21:04 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 05:18:45 AM
Because Mart was talking about failed parenting and teaching kids about the line between conformity and self-expression.
It's a point and not hard to follow really.
A bad point if bullies are deciding what is acceptable.
Do you want to be happy or do you want to be right?
Unsure of your target.
Gay racially confused man with purple hair.
This is rather bizarre. :huh:
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 06:14:38 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 12, 2012, 06:12:55 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 06:08:22 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 12, 2012, 06:05:33 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 05:56:50 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 05:21:04 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 05:18:45 AM
Because Mart was talking about failed parenting and teaching kids about the line between conformity and self-expression.
It's a point and not hard to follow really.
A bad point if bullies are deciding what is acceptable.
Do you want to be happy or do you want to be right?
Unsure of your target.
Gay racially confused man with purple hair.
This is rather bizarre. :huh:
You and my last date should meet.
Quote from: The Brain on May 12, 2012, 06:17:22 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 06:14:38 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 12, 2012, 06:12:55 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 06:08:22 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 12, 2012, 06:05:33 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 05:56:50 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 05:21:04 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 05:18:45 AM
Because Mart was talking about failed parenting and teaching kids about the line between conformity and self-expression.
It's a point and not hard to follow really.
A bad point if bullies are deciding what is acceptable.
Do you want to be happy or do you want to be right?
Unsure of your target.
Gay racially confused man with purple hair.
This is rather bizarre. :huh:
You and my last date should meet.
I'm not Gay.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 06:18:26 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 12, 2012, 06:17:22 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 06:14:38 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 12, 2012, 06:12:55 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 06:08:22 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 12, 2012, 06:05:33 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 05:56:50 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 05:21:04 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 05:18:45 AM
Because Mart was talking about failed parenting and teaching kids about the line between conformity and self-expression.
It's a point and not hard to follow really.
A bad point if bullies are deciding what is acceptable.
Do you want to be happy or do you want to be right?
Unsure of your target.
Gay racially confused man with purple hair.
This is rather bizarre. :huh:
You and my last date should meet.
I'm not Gay.
Awesome.
Quote from: The Brain on May 12, 2012, 06:49:42 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 06:18:26 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 12, 2012, 06:17:22 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 06:14:38 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 12, 2012, 06:12:55 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 06:08:22 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 12, 2012, 06:05:33 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 05:56:50 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 05:21:04 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 05:18:45 AM
Because Mart was talking about failed parenting and teaching kids about the line between conformity and self-expression.
It's a point and not hard to follow really.
A bad point if bullies are deciding what is acceptable.
Do you want to be happy or do you want to be right?
Unsure of your target.
Gay racially confused man with purple hair.
This is rather bizarre. :huh:
You and my last date should meet.
I'm not Gay.
Awesome.
So, who the hell has purple hair?
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 05:06:20 AM
Except who determines an acceptable level of weirdness?
General consensus. I mean, you might just as well ask who determines social norms.
I think there is today this mentality from certain portions of the society that simply argues that weird = good, and any eccentricity should be encouraged. I don't think this is really correct. While diversity is important and we should prevent people from being violently attacked for being different, I think we do need some form of social control or it gets very solipsistic. Bullying (which I understand to mean more like ridicule and not violence) serves that purpose to an extent, even though it is a crude and primitive tool.
I guess I should clarify/refine my position in that I am not claiming that bullies are "good" or "correct" in what they do. They are dumb and primitive, but neither they are morally evil - just more "lower brain functions" in their social responses.
They pick victims who are socially "weak", e.g. have no friends to call on/are unpopular etc. I think anti-bullying actions should focus less on punishing these brutes and more on teaching children how to overcome these "weaknesses" - and where this does not happen, parents are usually to blame.
Does it sound more acceptable?
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2012, 07:07:17 AM
I guess I should clarify/refine my position in that I am not claiming that bullies are "good" or "correct" in what they do. They are dumb and primitive, but neither they are morally evil - just more "lower brain functions" in their social responses.
They pick victims who are socially "weak", e.g. have no friends to call on/are unpopular etc. I think anti-bullying actions should focus less on punishing these brutes and more on teaching children how to overcome these "weaknesses" - and where this does not happen, parents are usually to blame.
Does it sound more acceptable?
I dont see a problem with that line of reasoning. :thumbsup:
When I was in kindergarten, there was another kid that was bullying me. My father came up with a solution: he asked me who the biggest and strongest boy in class was, and then talked to his parents and had him come over for a few days. Before long we were friends and the bullying problems were over.
The flip side of this story is after that the two of us were constantly getting in trouble for being mean on the playground. Later on this developed into me being a part of a group of 2nd/3rd graders that ruled the playground by picking out someone by themselves and making their life miserable for the day. Eventually this ended when my father was called in by the school administrators.
After that, as one of the smaller and least athletic kids, I resumed my previous role of bully victim (though not too badly, more of just being picked on from time to time). In this way I experienced the full circle of elementary school life.
Beat the parents of the bully. They will beat his ass and problem solved.
Look for my new book, Beat the living shit out of everybody by Dr. Monc E Butt
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2012, 07:07:17 AM
They pick victims who are socially "weak", e.g. have no friends to call on/are unpopular etc. I think anti-bullying actions should focus less on punishing these brutes and more on teaching children how to overcome these "weaknesses" - and where this does not happen, parents are usually to blame.
Does it sound more acceptable?
Martinus' posts, like so much bear shit, oftentimes requires some time to sift through the crap before you get to the berries.
In the age of hover-mothers you're seeing a lot of kids whose, shall we say, "more sensitive aspects" of their personalities are being exasperated by their parents' inability to let them stand on their own two legs, to let them experience success or failure on their own terms and to learn from them.
I have a good friend whose son is 12--very intelligent, very sharp in school, big participant in Cub Scouts, and quite frankly, a complete and total weenie. I've known her long enough to watch it all happen. She'd let him watch her get dressed until he was 8. She "cuddles" with him. Still has a need to be tucked in.
Of course, once it got bad enough to the point that he had a melt down bordering on clinical before going on a camping trip with his Cub Scout troop last summer, because he didn't want to spend the night away from her.
Naturally she bristles at the criticism when I've told her how completely damaging her behavior has been with her lil' snoogums; after all, what the fuck do I know, I have a cat.
But in short, every mental attachment need for this kid has been terribly arrested by Mommy. Emotionally, his needle is fucking skipping. And the other kids see it at school--and that causes problems.
Now, she's got him going to a behaviorist because honestly, she totally fucking broke him. She realizes that now, but it's a little too late.
I got bullied sporadically by one kid for a couple months in the middle of grade 6, before it just kind of died out. I don't remember doing anything to have brought it on or to have stopped it. The following year, I once rolled my classmate into a mound of dog shit and he cried afterwards and I felt bad. That's all the bullying I ever was on either end of, as far as I can remember.
As to the broader topic, I don't see why it has to be an either/or approach to bullying. Schools should have no tolerance for bullying, and punish students who engage in it. But at the same time, teaching victims the steps needed to deal with it / prevent it on their own is useful, as well.
Incidentally, that kid who bothered me for a couple months turned out later to be a gay high school dropout. :hmm:
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 12:08:41 AM
Ugh, Hunstman. The completely non-viable individual that people can wail over when they moan about our current crop. Here's a hint - if you can't get the media to say anything about you, it doesn't matter how awesome your views are.
Huntsman was the media's candidate. His problem was with voters not the media.
Okay since Hans has refuses to back up his initial claims and is now just posting shit from a guy from the American Spectator a right, wing magazine that pushed all sorts of conspiracy theories about Bill Clinton, I take this to mean he concedes that he is his statements are wrong and he knows they are wrong.
Ah, bullies. We had a couple of those. One got his ass kicked by a girl, the other died of heroine OD when he was 18 years old.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 12, 2012, 09:42:48 AM
Okay since Hans has refuses to back up his initial claims and is now just posting shit from a guy from the American Spectator a right, wing magazine that pushed all sorts of conspiracy theories about Bill Clinton, I take this to mean he concedes that he is his statements are wrong and he knows they are wrong.
Of course he does.
Quote from: Sheilbh on May 12, 2012, 08:28:09 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 12:08:41 AM
Ugh, Hunstman. The completely non-viable individual that people can wail over when they moan about our current crop. Here's a hint - if you can't get the media to say anything about you, it doesn't matter how awesome your views are.
Huntsman was the media's candidate. His problem was with voters not the media.
They didn't do very well then if no one knew who he was. :mellow:
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2012, 07:07:17 AM
I guess I should clarify/refine my position in that I am not claiming that bullies are "good" or "correct" in what they do. They are dumb and primitive, but neither they are morally evil - just more "lower brain functions" in their social responses.
They pick victims who are socially "weak", e.g. have no friends to call on/are unpopular etc. I think anti-bullying actions should focus less on punishing these brutes and more on teaching children how to overcome these "weaknesses" - and where this does not happen, parents are usually to blame.
Does it sound more acceptable?
Then you'd say that parents should teach their children to reign in their gay tendencies (as that would naturally make them a target for bullies)?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 12, 2012, 08:06:15 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2012, 07:07:17 AM
They pick victims who are socially "weak", e.g. have no friends to call on/are unpopular etc. I think anti-bullying actions should focus less on punishing these brutes and more on teaching children how to overcome these "weaknesses" - and where this does not happen, parents are usually to blame.
Does it sound more acceptable?
In the age of hover-mothers you're seeing a lot of kids whose, shall we say, "more sensitive aspects" of their personalities are being exasperated by their parents' inability to let them stand on their own two legs, to let them experience success or failure on their own terms and to learn from them.
This.
even the teachers are fucking flaky feel good everyone's a winner hippie
While were at it with those fucking lazy ass work for nine months wanting a class size of ten students with an early day once a week so they can go fuck off and call it teacher development and more money so the school can try and dupe the property owners with lame ass levies because they mismanage their budgets while having five minute round robin teacher/parent conferences and ask the student "well how do you think your doing" and I say if I wanted to know how my child's doing I would ask her myself so why don't you (teacher) tell me how she's doing then hire some flake superintendent only to fire her because she was corrupt then paying the twat a servence while finding out they shouldnt having hired her in the first place because she had bullshit pending in her former job.
FUCK YOU AND DO YOUR JOB YOU HIPPIE FUCKS.
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 10:50:40 AM
FUCK YOU AND DO YOUR JOB YOU HIPPIE FUCKS.
LIKE TEACHING PUNCTUATION.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 12, 2012, 08:06:15 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2012, 07:07:17 AM
They pick victims who are socially "weak", e.g. have no friends to call on/are unpopular etc. I think anti-bullying actions should focus less on punishing these brutes and more on teaching children how to overcome these "weaknesses" - and where this does not happen, parents are usually to blame.
Does it sound more acceptable?
Martinus' posts, like so much bear shit, oftentimes requires some time to sift through the crap before you get to the berries.
In the age of hover-mothers you're seeing a lot of kids whose, shall we say, "more sensitive aspects" of their personalities are being exasperated by their parents' inability to let them stand on their own two legs, to let them experience success or failure on their own terms and to learn from them.
I have a good friend whose son is 12--very intelligent, very sharp in school, big participant in Cub Scouts, and quite frankly, a complete and total weenie. I've known her long enough to watch it all happen. She'd let him watch her get dressed until he was 8. She "cuddles" with him. Still has a need to be tucked in.
Of course, once it got bad enough to the point that he had a melt down bordering on clinical before going on a camping trip with his Cub Scout troop last summer, because he didn't want to spend the night away from her.
Naturally she bristles at the criticism when I've told her how completely damaging her behavior has been with her lil' snoogums; after all, what the fuck do I know, I have a cat.
But in short, every mental attachment need for this kid has been terribly arrested by Mommy. Emotionally, his needle is fucking skipping. And the other kids see it at school--and that causes problems.
Now, she's got him going to a behaviorist because honestly, she totally fucking broke him. She realizes that now, but it's a little too late.
Holy crap.
Toss a box of pap tarts in the middle of the floor and let the kids scramble for them. You don't get a pop tart? FIGHT HARDER.
THIS IS SPARTA!
Quote from: Iormlund on May 12, 2012, 09:48:18 AM
Ah, bullies. We had a couple of those. One got his ass kicked by a girl, the other died of heroine OD when he was 18 years old.
Must be a different culture. Here, one of the bullies went on to play for the Tennessee Titans.
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 10:24:28 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2012, 07:07:17 AM
I guess I should clarify/refine my position in that I am not claiming that bullies are "good" or "correct" in what they do. They are dumb and primitive, but neither they are morally evil - just more "lower brain functions" in their social responses.
They pick victims who are socially "weak", e.g. have no friends to call on/are unpopular etc. I think anti-bullying actions should focus less on punishing these brutes and more on teaching children how to overcome these "weaknesses" - and where this does not happen, parents are usually to blame.
Does it sound more acceptable?
Then you'd say that parents should teach their children to reign in their gay tendencies (as that would naturally make them a target for bullies)?
There is nothing about being gay that makes you talk with a lisp or dye your hair neon blue. :P
The limp wrist, however, seems inevitable.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 12, 2012, 11:27:48 AMHoly crap.
Toss a box of pap tarts in the middle of the floor and let the kids scramble for them. You don't get a pop tart? FIGHT HARDER.
THIS IS SPARTA!
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg37.imageshack.us%2Fimg37%2F1603%2Funbenanntpkv.jpg&hash=d195e9967784fa0d4f009a886fe2d78e2c4185f5)
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2012, 12:10:35 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 10:24:28 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2012, 07:07:17 AM
I guess I should clarify/refine my position in that I am not claiming that bullies are "good" or "correct" in what they do. They are dumb and primitive, but neither they are morally evil - just more "lower brain functions" in their social responses.
They pick victims who are socially "weak", e.g. have no friends to call on/are unpopular etc. I think anti-bullying actions should focus less on punishing these brutes and more on teaching children how to overcome these "weaknesses" - and where this does not happen, parents are usually to blame.
Does it sound more acceptable?
Then you'd say that parents should teach their children to reign in their gay tendencies (as that would naturally make them a target for bullies)?
There is nothing about being gay that makes you talk with a lisp or dye your hair neon blue. :P
That doesn't really answer my question. So are you saying it is okay to be gay in certain ways but not other?
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 12, 2012, 11:27:48 AM
Holy crap.
No kidding. I've told her many times that the way she has engineered her son, he will fall in love and marry the first pair of panties he meets, and she will treat him like utter dog shit.
For some reason, she believes my hypothesis is faulty.
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 02:49:50 PM
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2012, 12:10:35 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 10:24:28 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2012, 07:07:17 AM
I guess I should clarify/refine my position in that I am not claiming that bullies are "good" or "correct" in what they do. They are dumb and primitive, but neither they are morally evil - just more "lower brain functions" in their social responses.
They pick victims who are socially "weak", e.g. have no friends to call on/are unpopular etc. I think anti-bullying actions should focus less on punishing these brutes and more on teaching children how to overcome these "weaknesses" - and where this does not happen, parents are usually to blame.
Does it sound more acceptable?
Then you'd say that parents should teach their children to reign in their gay tendencies (as that would naturally make them a target for bullies)?
There is nothing about being gay that makes you talk with a lisp or dye your hair neon blue. :P
That doesn't really answer my question. So are you saying it is okay to be gay in certain ways but not other?
There is only one way to be gay - it's about being attracted to people of the same sex as you are. Similarly, there is only one way to be black - it's about having a dark(er) skin color. Everything else is not about being gay or black or whatever, but about acting in a certain manner. And I see no reason why we can, say, make fun of hipsters or goths for acting a certain way that we find silly, or weird, but cannot make fun of a stereotypical behavior of a lispy, outrageously-dressed "nelly gay" guy (and you know very well that despite this being "just a stereotype", you and I both know people who are exactly like that) or a stereotypical ghetto thug.
I think in our attempt to remove discrimination based on sexual orientation or race etc. we get into the area of subculture - and that's where it becomes unfair, because other subcultures (which are not overlapping to such a degree with protected minorities) do not enjoy the same protection. I think everything that is (sub)cultural should be fair game for mockery and ridicule.
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2012, 05:04:21 PM
I think in our attempt to remove discrimination based on sexual orientation or race etc. we get into the area of subculture - and that's where it becomes unfair, because other subcultures (which are not overlapping to such a degree with protected minorities) do not enjoy the same protection. I think everything that is (sub)cultural should be fair game for mockery and ridicule.
So you're saying that it's not only acceptable but preferable for the bully to decide who and what a person should be? Someone you've already identified as a troglodyte? Yes, that makes sense.
I'm not really sure how you can remove cultural/sub-culture from said traits as that's exactly how they become identities. And then what Meri said.
Quote from: Syt on May 12, 2012, 12:45:00 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 12, 2012, 11:27:48 AMHoly crap.
Toss a box of pap tarts in the middle of the floor and let the kids scramble for them. You don't get a pop tart? FIGHT HARDER.
THIS IS SPARTA!
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg37.imageshack.us%2Fimg37%2F1603%2Funbenanntpkv.jpg&hash=d195e9967784fa0d4f009a886fe2d78e2c4185f5)
wut.
Transmetropolitan.
Quote from: merithyn on May 12, 2012, 05:19:47 PM
Quote from: Martinus on May 12, 2012, 05:04:21 PM
I think in our attempt to remove discrimination based on sexual orientation or race etc. we get into the area of subculture - and that's where it becomes unfair, because other subcultures (which are not overlapping to such a degree with protected minorities) do not enjoy the same protection. I think everything that is (sub)cultural should be fair game for mockery and ridicule.
So you're saying that it's not only acceptable but preferable for the bully to decide who and what a person should be? Someone you've already identified as a troglodyte? Yes, that makes sense.
The bully does not "decide" that - the society (or a community/group in which the bully operates) decides that. The bully is simply a tool enforcing the general consensus of that group. If the bully targeted a person who is not already ostracized but instead targeted someone who is popular, he would himself face ostracism.
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 07:01:57 PM
I'm not really sure how you can remove cultural/sub-culture from said traits as that's exactly how they become identities.
So what? I'm not really sure I can see your point. Are you saying that anything that makes up someone's "identity" should be exempted from being mocked? That's a ridiculous position to take.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vFiwHk2paE
Quote from: Octavian on May 13, 2012, 03:10:57 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vFiwHk2paE
Old vid, but awesome :lol:
:lol:
Although fat people are a perfect example of people who should be bullied into changing their habits (and a clear example why the bullying is happening because of parents being fucking idiots who failed to provide their kid with a proper diet and exercise).
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 06:57:35 AM
So, who the hell has purple hair?
Garbon, way back in the day (2005ish?).
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 13, 2012, 03:29:59 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 06:57:35 AM
So, who the hell has purple hair?
Garbon, way back in the day (2005ish?).
Which is fine with me, but when you do that you have to realize there are people who will mock you and you have to own that.
The thing is, the older I get, the more I think that people should have a right to be amused/scared/weirded out/disgusted by stuff other people do or like. As long as everyone has equal rights and there is no violence, you can mock other people if you want and they can mock you in return. (Which is why I oppose various hate speech laws - save, of course, for a straightforward incitement to crime/violence - because they create protected groups and effectively remove equal rights. Why is it fine to make fun of - or say you are disgusted by - a BDSM fetish guy for barking like a dog during a sex act, but it is no longer fine to make fun of a gay guy for sucking a dick? Or if an educated urban comedian lampoons a redneck's hillbilly accent, everyone is fine with that, but when a white comedian start talking ebonics, he gets decried as a racist?)
Quote from: Martinus on May 13, 2012, 03:26:53 AM
:lol:
Although fat gay people are a perfect example of people who should be bullied into changing their habits (and a clear example why the bullying is happening because of parents being fucking idiots who failed to provide their kid with a proper diet and exercise with proper gender identification).
Looks better this way.
Now go fuck with somebody much bigger than you and get body slammed, you 115lbs effeminate cocksucker.
Lol nice troll. Are you seriously equating obesity with homosexuality? :lol:
Btw, is the "effeminate" and "115 lbs" some sort of internet meme, like Sheilbh living in a castle? :D
Quote from: Martinus on May 13, 2012, 04:34:01 AM
Lol nice troll. Are you seriously equating obesity with homosexuality? :lol:
I'm seriously equating you with an asshole.
Quote from: Martinus on May 13, 2012, 02:55:18 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 12, 2012, 07:01:57 PM
I'm not really sure how you can remove cultural/sub-culture from said traits as that's exactly how they become identities.
So what? I'm not really sure I can see your point. Are you saying that anything that makes up someone's "identity" should be exempted from being mocked? That's a ridiculous position to take.
I think you're taking the absurd position that schools should allow mockery. I'm not saying it should be verboten to make fun of someone, as it never is in life - but schools shouldn't passively or actively encourage bullies and in fact should punish them.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 13, 2012, 03:29:59 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 06:57:35 AM
So, who the hell has purple hair?
Garbon, way back in the day (2005ish?).
False. Never had purple hair / I first started dyeing my hair freshman year in high school and no one gave me shit.
Quote from: garbon on May 13, 2012, 09:54:20 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 13, 2012, 03:29:59 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 06:57:35 AM
So, who the hell has purple hair?
Garbon, way back in the day (2005ish?).
False. Never had purple hair / I first started dyeing my hair freshman year in high school and no one gave me shit.
Too bad. Perhaps if you were bullied, you would grow up sane. :P
Quote from: Martinus on May 13, 2012, 10:10:43 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 13, 2012, 09:54:20 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 13, 2012, 03:29:59 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on May 12, 2012, 06:57:35 AM
So, who the hell has purple hair?
Garbon, way back in the day (2005ish?).
False. Never had purple hair / I first started dyeing my hair freshman year in high school and no one gave me shit.
Too bad. Perhaps if you were bullied, you would grow up sane. :P
Projecting? :hmm:
Quote from: Martinus on May 13, 2012, 04:34:01 AM
Lol nice troll. Are you seriously equating obesity with homosexuality? :lol:
Sure. They're both undesirable traits, although gay is so much worse.
Quote from: Martinus on May 13, 2012, 03:26:53 AM
:lol:
Although fat people are a perfect example of people who should be bullied into changing their habits (and a clear example why the bullying is happening because of parents being fucking idiots who failed to provide their kid with a proper diet and exercise).
So societal norms are a good basis for bullying?
Bullies are needed to enforce the social norms that exist to make sure you're not bullied.
Quote from: Maximus on May 14, 2012, 08:17:39 AM
Bullies are needed to enforce the social norms that exist to make sure you're not bullied.
*head explodes*