It's only 2010, but it's probable those interested in seeking the 2012 Republican nomination are already laying the initial groundwork for a campaign. According to wiki, no one has officially declared, but there's a pretty long list of speculated candidates:
Haley Barbour
Scott Brown
Jeb Bush
Eric Cantor
Dick Cheney
Mitch Daniels
Luis Fortuño
Newt Gingrich
Rudy Giuliani
Mike Huckabee
Bobby Jindal
Gary Johnson
Sarah Palin
George Pataki
Ron Paul
Tim Pawlenty
Mike Pence
Rick Perry
Mitt Romney
Mark Sanford
Rick Santorum
Fred Thompson
John Thune
I highly doubt Cheney or Sanford run. I have a feeling Guiliani and Thompson aren't going to run, given their lackluster campaigns from 2008. I have strong doubts about Jeb Bush running. Of the rest, most are not that impressive, relative unknowns, retreads, or unlikely to run. According to Intrade, a futures betting website, the top 5 candidates are Palin, Romney, Thune, Pawlenty, and Huckabee. Palin(24), Romney(21), and Thune(11) are the only candidates trading over 10(on a scale from 1-100), but of course it is very early on right now.
If I had money to bet, I would short Palin: I cannot possibly imagine her winning the nomination. Romney definitely has the best shot, at least from the vantage point of early 2010 IMO. I don't know enough about Thune or Pawlenty. Huckabee seems to have limited appeal. I can't say I'm especially excited about any of the likely candidates, but I don't know much about Thune or Pawlenty, who both pretty solid.
Nate Silver of fivethirtyeight.com just posted an interesting article on possible paths to nomination by Palin and some of the other candidate. http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/02/first-look-at-palins-primary-math.html.
FYI: The GOP has modified its primary schedule. The traditional early states(Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, and South Carolina) will continue to go early. The orange states will go next, and the remaining order is undetermined.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fb%2Fbb%2FThe_Ohio_Plan.svg%2F500px-The_Ohio_Plan.svg.png&hash=79fc4c052b662b543b5a9e691fc9fd2f291a0b2b)
Anyways, here's a quote from the Nate Silver article:
"Palin Plan A. Win Iowa. Win South Carolina. Clean up in orange states. You probably have enough momentum to survive the consolidation of the GOP field which is liable to occur at this point.
Palin Plan B. Lose Iowa narrowly, especially to a Midwestern candidate. Hope that a Southerner isn't running strongly and win South Carolina. Clean up in orange states. Then you anchor in the South, winning Texas (green group), Florida/Georgia (gold group) or Indiana/North Carolina (purple group). At some point, you need to break through and win a big Midwestern battleground like Ohio or Wisconsin.
Palin Plan C. Win Iowa. Lose South Carolina narrowly to a Southern candidate. Regain momentum in orange states. Hope that green states vote next and aim in particular for a big win in Texas. If it's the gold states instead, go all-in in Ohio and Pennsylvania. If it's the purple states, you'll need some help.
Conversely, Mitt Romney's paths might look something like this, and are probably somewhat more straightforward than Palin's.
Romney Plan A. Win Iowa. Win New Hampshire. Game over.
Romney Plan B-1. (If Palin is knocked out) Lose Iowa. Win New Hampshire. Win Nevada. Sweep orange states on the basis of organizational strength. Veer slightly to the left, emphasizing electability and cleaning up in delegate-rich states like California and New York. You probably outlast a Southern opponent like Huckabee, perhaps even fairly easily. A Midwesterner that could win states like Ohio, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania might be more challenging.
Romney Plan B-2. (If Palin survives) Lose Iowa. Win New Hampshire. Win Nevada. Split orange states with Palin on the basis of organizational strength. Hope that gold or purple states came up next, in which case you should build up a substantial delegate lead. If so, the party infrastructure may start to close ranks around you. If green states come up instead, Palin is tougher and you're in for a war of attrition with flagging momentum.
Mike Huckabee, if he runs, really only has one path to victory and it isn't a very good one since the calendar makes it tough for a Southern candidate to gain momentum:
Huckabee Plan A. Win Iowa. Win South Carolina. Knock out Palin and perhaps angle for her endorsement. Lower expectations for orange states and hope to at least win a couple contests like West Virginia and Nebraska. Hope that there are at least two centrist candidates remaining in the race while you consolidate the conservative vote. If it's just you and Romney (etc.) one-on-one, you probably need to consistently win border states like Ohio/Florida (gold group), North Carolina/Indiana (purple group) or Missouri/Texas (green group).
Most of the other Southern candidates would have the same problem. Conversely, someone like a John Thune probably has a more versatile set of strategies. If Romney is knocked out (Thune is more likely to pull an upset in New Hampshire than someone like Palin or Huckabee), he can run on electability and is probably conservative enough so as not to feel like a compromise to the base. If Palin and/or Huckabee are knocked out instead, Thune should have some regional strength in the orange states and then would be headed to a key showdown or two with Romney in Midwestern states like Ohio.
It's also conceivable that a strong Northeastern candidate, like Scott Brown, could run. His path would obviously need to involve winning New Hampshire and sweeping Maine/Delaware/Vermont/Rhode Island when the orange states vote. Then the contest probably becomes about the brute force of the delegate math, with big states like California, New York, Pennsylvania and Illinois being key."
Already?
:bleeding: (https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi195.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz133%2Fsbr32%2Fsmilies%2FSuicide.gif&hash=32172ef30f51051ab8aefcfb47b3fad20bb794cf)
You can't be too early. The first time I heard about Obama was in Languish in 2004. CdM kept totting himl :P
Petraeus pro imperator!
Can't we at least wait until next year before having to try and cope with the arcana of the American system of Primaries? :(
QuoteBobby Jindal
our next president
i just want to be on record early
Didn't he participate in an exorcism? That seems a little too outre for mainstream America.
Palin! Palin!
Comedy gold in 2012!
Quote from: Tyr on February 11, 2010, 08:32:46 AM
Palin! Palin!
Comedy gold in 2012!
:D
I love how they precede any mention of Palin on BBC 4's Friday Night Comedy Show with a jingle from Handel's "Halleluyah". That idiot is god-given to comedians everywhere.
Conan should march on Washington and take the throne.
Quote from: The Brain on February 11, 2010, 01:44:18 PM
Conan should march on Washington and take the throne.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg21.imageshack.us%2Fimg21%2F4324%2Flincolnmemorial.jpg&hash=d2c6a60ec8bcb27cf447fa2aed34927b2ff78d52)
Is that photoshopped?
No.
There's only a few people on that list that I would support, though there are some that I don't know enough about to say for sure that I couldn't support them. And generally, the ones I'd support are the ones least likely to run.
The USA = Aquilonia? Well, possibly...
But he certainly could be a better president than the one you've got now.
Conan: "I wish to reform healthcare in America."
Legislator: "Well, I'll support it if you give me blah, blah, blah, blah for my State."
Conan, after drawing very large sword: "I think there may be a misunderstanding here."
Legislator: "No sir! The reform will be done sir" I was only joking sir!"
Quote from: stjaba on February 10, 2010, 08:53:19 PM
Huckabee seems to have limited appeal.
Really disagree.
He's got his show on Fox, which sells himself to conservatives as a kinder, gentler republican (and doesn't antagonize the center, like Palin is doing). He has the national media profile that few others have right now. And he has a definite charisma in giving a speech.
I don't think I want him to be President (his economics were awfully to the left), but don't count him out.
Quote from: Barrister on February 11, 2010, 02:17:40 PM
He's got his show on Fox, which sells himself to conservatives as a kinder, gentler republican (and doesn't antagonize the center, like Palin is doing). He has the national media profile that few others have right now. And he has a definite charisma in giving a speech.
I don't think I want him to be President (his economics were awfully to the left), but don't count him out.
He *is* a kinder, gentler Republican. I wouldn't be surprised if his moderation on crime were a bigger impediment to his nomination than his social conservatism.
Quote from: Barrister on February 11, 2010, 02:17:40 PM
Quote from: stjaba on February 10, 2010, 08:53:19 PM
Huckabee seems to have limited appeal.
Really disagree.
He's got his show on Fox, which sells himself to conservatives as a kinder, gentler republican (and doesn't antagonize the center, like Palin is doing). He has the national media profile that few others have right now. And he has a definite charisma in giving a speech.
I don't think I want him to be President (his economics were awfully to the left), but don't count him out.
My parents are speaking highly of him, probably because he comes across as an honest fellow.
He also strikes me as someone who is likely to be more of a social conservative as an individual than as a politician for some reason. In any case, I'd take him over Palin any day of the week.
Quote from: AnchorClanker on February 11, 2010, 02:57:23 PM
My parents are speaking highly of him, probably because he comes across as an honest fellow.
He also strikes me as someone who is likely to be more of a social conservative as an individual than as a politician for some reason. In any case, I'd take him over Palin any day of the week.
They'll Willie Horton him.
Quote from: AnchorClanker on February 11, 2010, 02:57:23 PM
In any case, I'd take him over Palin any day of the week.
That is setting the bar pretty damn low though.
Quote from: Berkut on February 11, 2010, 03:02:26 PM
Quote from: AnchorClanker on February 11, 2010, 02:57:23 PM
In any case, I'd take him over Palin any day of the week.
That is setting the bar pretty damn low though.
Indeed, but social conservatives usually give me hives, but Huckabee doesn't fill me with rage when he talks.
The peculiar inability of many so-cons to see that their personal decisions and personal mores are not and should not be law is something that bothers me... but I've always had the impression that Huckabee was too sensible for crass populist bullshit... just a feeling.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on February 11, 2010, 03:02:21 PM
Quote from: AnchorClanker on February 11, 2010, 02:57:23 PM
My parents are speaking highly of him, probably because he comes across as an honest fellow.
He also strikes me as someone who is likely to be more of a social conservative as an individual than as a politician for some reason. In any case, I'd take him over Palin any day of the week.
They'll Willie Horton him.
That would be a pity. He's a decent, honest fellow.
Quote from: Rasputin on February 11, 2010, 08:04:53 AM
QuoteBobby Jindal
our next president
i just want to be on record early
He's an interesting fellow, but he needs an image makeover. I do see him having a shot, but I think 2012 would be a bit too early. He's young though and has decades to get elected to the Oval Office still.
A Jindal election would generate tons of good lines too:
ASK NOT WHAT YOUR SLURPEE CAN DO FOR YOU, ASK WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR YOUR SLURPEE
Anyway, my money is on Romney at this point.
I find the current crop of Republicans and Democrats to be one big ball of suck.
I MISS NIXON.
Quote from: Caliga on February 11, 2010, 04:05:24 PM
Anyway, my money is on Romney at this point.
Yeah, me too. Pawlenty is too bland for prime time.
Quote from: Barrister on February 11, 2010, 02:17:40 PM
Really disagree.
He's got his show on Fox, which sells himself to conservatives as a kinder, gentler republican (and doesn't antagonize the center, like Palin is doing). He has the national media profile that few others have right now. And he has a definite charisma in giving a speech.
I don't think I want him to be President (his economics were awfully to the left), but don't count him out.
I agree he's likable and charismastic. Problem is, I don't see him winning states outside of the Bible Belt. In 2008, the reason he won states was because he was the only half-way viable candidate highly appealing to evangelical voters, and the candidate pool was fairly large and diverse, meaning that a single candidate could win primaries by dominating a single voting bloc, if the voting bloc was large enough. Which explains why he won mostly states in the South and Midwest. I just don't see how Huckabee can get voters outside of his base. Which is a shame, because he's not a sleazeball like most other politicians.
Echoing Yi and Caliga, I too think Romney will be the frontrunner.
Edit: Another problem for Huck is that he isn't a strong fundraiser, or at least he wasn't in 2008. He had to run a pretty bare-bones campaign back then.
Quote from: AnchorClanker on February 11, 2010, 03:07:50 PM
I've always had the impression that Huckabee was too sensible for crass populist bullshit... just a feeling.
Ank, the guy ran on abolishing the income tax. :P
Quote from: alfred russel on February 11, 2010, 04:26:43 PM
Quote from: AnchorClanker on February 11, 2010, 03:07:50 PM
I've always had the impression that Huckabee was too sensible for crass populist bullshit... just a feeling.
Ank, the guy ran on abolishing the income tax. :P
I meant social conserrvative bullshit - do remember that I am in the UK and have missed virtually all US news since Sep 2007. :P
Quote from: AnchorClanker on February 11, 2010, 04:28:30 PM
I meant social conserrvative bullshit
I know, that is why I deleted the first part of your post. :P
Huckabee is a charming fellow. He's one of the few politicians on the right who can disagree with the left without sounding disagreeable. However, he's an unapologetic Jesus freak, and that shows a scary disregard for intellectual curiosity and openness regardless of one's charm.
Quote from: Caliga on February 11, 2010, 04:05:24 PM
Anyway, my money is on Romney at this point.
For now at least, he's my guy. I think I finally got past the Mormon thing.
Quote from: derspiess on February 11, 2010, 04:46:36 PM
Quote from: Caliga on February 11, 2010, 04:05:24 PM
Anyway, my money is on Romney at this point.
For now at least, he's my guy. I think I finally got past the Mormon thing.
Oh sure you won't vote for a catholic, but a mormon no problem!
you disgust me.
Huckabee. :bleeding:
Quote from: katmai on February 11, 2010, 04:55:51 PM
Oh sure you won't vote for a catholic, but a mormon no problem!
you disgust me.
Rudy was a Catholic. See, I'm sometimes able to look past these things. Now if he had been Irish...
Quote from: garbon on February 11, 2010, 05:04:12 PM
Huckabee. :bleeding:
I agree with others that he's a likeable guy, but I don't want anyone so focused on social issues, one way or the other. Economic issues are what should tie all Republicans together and is the best bet IMO of poaching independents for either 2010 or 2012. As everyone here knows, I'm socially conservative but I'm willing to put that aside for now in favor more pressing issues.
Of course, Huck is my oldest brother's ideal candidate :rolleyes:
The talk of Thune does surprise me. I had no idea he was so high profile.
Quote from: dps on February 11, 2010, 02:13:21 PM
There's only a few people on that list that I would support, though there are some that I don't know enough about to say for sure that I couldn't support them. And generally, the ones I'd support are the ones least likely to run.
Rick Santorum? :P
Quote from: DGuller on February 11, 2010, 04:45:03 PM
Huckabee is a charming fellow. He's one of the few politicians on the right who can disagree with the left without sounding disagreeable. However, he's an unapologetic Jesus freak, and that shows a scary disregard for intellectual curiosity and openness regardless of one's charm.
:rolleyes:
Quote from: Barrister on February 11, 2010, 06:05:03 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 11, 2010, 04:45:03 PM
Huckabee is a charming fellow. He's one of the few politicians on the right who can disagree with the left without sounding disagreeable. However, he's an unapologetic Jesus freak, and that shows a scary disregard for intellectual curiosity and openness regardless of one's charm.
:rolleyes:
You're right. He was too kind in those first two sentences.
Quote from: derspiess on February 11, 2010, 04:46:36 PM
For now at least, he's my guy. I think I finally got past the Mormon thing.
Don't worry about that. He's a M.I.N.O.
Quote from: Caliga on February 11, 2010, 06:36:39 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 11, 2010, 04:46:36 PM
For now at least, he's my guy. I think I finally got past the Mormon thing.
Don't worry about that. He's a M.I.N.O.
It seems like he's everything in name only.
Quote from: stjaba on February 11, 2010, 04:22:10 PM
I agree he's likable and charismastic. Problem is, I don't see him winning states outside of the Bible Belt. In 2008, the reason he won states was because he was the only half-way viable candidate highly appealing to evangelical voters, and the candidate pool was fairly large and diverse, meaning that a single candidate could win primaries by dominating a single voting bloc, if the voting bloc was large enough. Which explains why he won mostly states in the South and Midwest. I just don't see how Huckabee can get voters outside of his base. Which is a shame, because he's not a sleazeball like most other politicians.
Echoing Yi and Caliga, I too think Romney will be the frontrunner.
Edit: Another problem for Huck is that he isn't a strong fundraiser, or at least he wasn't in 2008. He had to run a pretty bare-bones campaign back then.
But Huck 2012 isn't Huck 2008. He has a national profile that he didn't have in 08 (or even 07). He's also repositioned himself somewhat - in 2008 he clearly tried to position himself as the candidate of the religious right. I don't think he needs to do that.
I think he'll run from the moderate middle, and count on social conservatives just subliminally knowing he's on their side.
Now what might kill his candidacy would be the early release of that multiple cop killer. Not sure how that plays out.
And I think I'm with spicey - my man at this stage may well be Romney. :o
Have you seen him drinking the forbidden nectar?
edit: That was for Caligula. Thread moving at warp speed!
Quote from: Barrister on February 11, 2010, 06:45:38 PM
And I think I'm with spicey - my man at this stage may well be Romney. :o
Ewwww :x
I don't want to see that threesome.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 10, 2010, 09:20:36 PM
Petraeus pro imperator!
I'd love it if the Republicans ran him only to discover he was like Ike :wub:
I think Palin has more chance of the nom than I did a while ago, I also think she's a better candidate than most people give her credit for. I don't like (I heart Huckabee) but she's strong.
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 11, 2010, 07:02:04 PM
I also think she's a better candidate than most people give her credit for. I don't like (I heart Huckabee) but she's strong.
:huh:
Quote from: Barrister on February 11, 2010, 06:45:38 PM
Quote from: stjaba on February 11, 2010, 04:22:10 PM
I agree he's likable and charismastic. Problem is, I don't see him winning states outside of the Bible Belt. In 2008, the reason he won states was because he was the only half-way viable candidate highly appealing to evangelical voters, and the candidate pool was fairly large and diverse, meaning that a single candidate could win primaries by dominating a single voting bloc, if the voting bloc was large enough. Which explains why he won mostly states in the South and Midwest. I just don't see how Huckabee can get voters outside of his base. Which is a shame, because he's not a sleazeball like most other politicians.
Echoing Yi and Caliga, I too think Romney will be the frontrunner.
Edit: Another problem for Huck is that he isn't a strong fundraiser, or at least he wasn't in 2008. He had to run a pretty bare-bones campaign back then.
But Huck 2012 isn't Huck 2008. He has a national profile that he didn't have in 08 (or even 07). He's also repositioned himself somewhat - in 2008 he clearly tried to position himself as the candidate of the religious right. I don't think he needs to do that.
I think he'll run from the moderate middle, and count on social conservatives just subliminally knowing he's on their side.
Now what might kill his candidacy would be the early release of that multiple cop killer. Not sure how that plays out.
And I think I'm with spicey - my man at this stage may well be Romney. :o
Are you saying that Romney is your guy in the sense that he's who you'd back, or in the sense of he's who you'd bet on to win the nomination if you had to put real money on it?
And I mean "you" in the plural sense--I'm addressing the question to derspiess as well.
Palin doesn't seem cut out for a national campaign, based on what I read in Game Change. She makes a great local politician, as well as a national demagouge/celebrity, but she is not capable of running and winning a national campaign. She's definitely formidable, and has a lot of support, but there's no way in hell she could win a Presidential race, and I think that will cause a lot of Republicans to not vote for her in the primaries.
Quote from: dps on February 11, 2010, 10:27:36 PM
Are you saying that Romney is your guy in the sense that he's who you'd back, or in the sense of he's who you'd bet on to win the nomination if you had to put real money on it?
And I mean "you" in the plural sense--I'm addressing the question to derspiess as well.
I'd bet on him and back him in the primary at this point. If I'm arsed enough to even go to another caucus that doesn't mean diddly.
MMM I could vote for Huck but I don't think he is as strong as BB attempts to portray him. Sadly I'm pretty sure Obama will take it in 2012 too. Democrats and liberals tend to bicker in off season and pull it together when it counts. Republicans will continue to be divided for years to come as they bicker between moving to the center or moving to the extreme right. I could support a moderate GOP, but as long as the Sarah Palin and Tea parties continue to wrestle for the strings many moderate voters such as myself are going to keep their distance.
Quote from: Jaron on February 11, 2010, 11:34:02 PM
Sadly I'm pretty sure Obama will take it in 2012 too.
:lol:
:jaron:
Quote from: AnchorClanker on February 11, 2010, 03:07:50 PM
Quote from: Berkut on February 11, 2010, 03:02:26 PM
Quote from: AnchorClanker on February 11, 2010, 02:57:23 PM
In any case, I'd take him over Palin any day of the week.
That is setting the bar pretty damn low though.
Indeed, but social conservatives usually give me hives, but Huckabee doesn't fill me with rage when he talks.
The peculiar inability of many so-cons to see that their personal decisions and personal mores are not and should not be law is something that bothers me... but I've always had the impression that Huckabee was too sensible for crass populist bullshit... just a feeling.
Fuck Huckabee. Partisan considerations aside, he's a hypocritical, corrupt, thin-skinned prick. That fat fuck should be handling snakes and frying up snakes in his popcorn popper, not thinking about running for President.
Quote from: Caliga on February 11, 2010, 04:02:21 PM
Quote from: Rasputin on February 11, 2010, 08:04:53 AM
QuoteBobby Jindal
our next president
i just want to be on record early
He's an interesting fellow, but he needs an image makeover. I do see him having a shot, but I think 2012 would be a bit too early. He's young though and has decades to get elected to the Oval Office still.
A Jindal election would generate tons of good lines too:
ASK NOT WHAT YOUR SLURPEE CAN DO FOR YOU, ASK WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR YOUR SLURPEE
Noun, verb, 7/11?
Quote from: dps on February 11, 2010, 10:27:36 PM
Are you saying that Romney is your guy in the sense that he's who you'd back, or in the sense of he's who you'd bet on to win the nomination if you had to put real money on it?
And I mean "you" in the plural sense--I'm addressing the question to derspiess as well.
As in at this stage, as a foreigner of the conservative persuasion, he's the guy I would want to win.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 11, 2010, 10:43:50 PM
I'd bet on him and back him in the primary at this point. If I'm arsed enough to even go to another caucus that doesn't mean diddly.
Romney has the same problem as his dad. No-one's entirely convinced he's human.
They're both so airbrushed into a perfect candidate that they've airbrushed the man out of existence. George Romney was campaigning in Pennsylvania and he stopped for a press call at a bowling alley. He bowled and got a split. He then bowled 34 more times until he knocked those pins down for the journos. That's not human.
Similarly Mitt described a 'typical' family holiday in which he put the dogs into a travel cage (normal so far) and strapped them to the top of the car (WHAT THE FUCK!) which he was driving across country (:o :bleeding: :RSPCA:). That man will never win until he develops normal, human flaws and stops being cruel to animals.
Quote from: Barrister on February 11, 2010, 02:17:40 PM
He's got his show on Fox, which sells himself to conservatives as a kinder, gentler republican (and doesn't antagonize the center, like Palin is doing). He has the national media profile that few others have right now. And he has a definite charisma in giving a speech.
I don't think I want him to be President (his economics were awfully to the left), but don't count him out.
His economics weren't awfully to the left they were a microscopic distance away from the Norquist-wankzone that's all. I generally agree though that he is a kinder, gentler Republican (I don't think it's a sell) and he's charm - though nowhere near as much as Palin. If I had the slightest inclination in her direction I'd be her biggest cheerleader. The Tea Party speech was a triumph.
Quote from: Barrister on February 12, 2010, 01:13:29 AM
As in at this stage, as a foreigner of the conservative persuasion, he's the guy I would want to win.
Depending on which order they run those primary schedules, he'd have the easiest time winning the nom, I think. Well, with what we know now. If the orange states come before the yellow and green(which they will), I'd say he'll gain too much momentum to be stopped. If green comes before yellow he wins easy.
I am assuming Palin isn't running.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on February 12, 2010, 09:46:34 PM
I am assuming Palin isn't running.
:lol:
You really are Mad, don't know about the Immortal part though.
Quote from: katmai on February 12, 2010, 09:48:57 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on February 12, 2010, 09:46:34 PM
I am assuming Palin isn't running.
:lol:
You really are Mad, don't know about the Immortal part though.
She's quit as your Governor because of the heat/scrutiny, and you think she's gonna run for President? Maybe I'm just optimistic. :P
Quote from: Caliga on February 11, 2010, 04:02:21 PMHe's an interesting fellow, but he needs an image makeover.
I think he needs to go to Maggie Thatcher's speech coach and work on his voice. I can't see any self-respecting nation electing a man with a voice that high pitched/nasally-whiney.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on February 12, 2010, 09:50:43 PM
She's quit as your Governor because of the heat/scrutiny, and you think she's gonna run for President? Maybe I'm just optimistic. :P
I watched her tea party speech. I would be amazed if she didn't run after that, it was a campaigning, stumping speech.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on February 12, 2010, 09:50:43 PM
Quote from: katmai on February 12, 2010, 09:48:57 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on February 12, 2010, 09:46:34 PM
I am assuming Palin isn't running.
:lol:
You really are Mad, don't know about the Immortal part though.
She's quit as your Governor because of the heat/scrutiny, and you think she's gonna run for President? Maybe I'm just optimistic. :P
Oh i think she's silly enough to throw hat in ring. Though i doubt she could get elected Governor again with her last 12 months in office.
Don't understand why so many on the left seem to like Huckabee. Sometimes I think it's a trick to get Republicans to nominate him so they'll be annihilated in the election.
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 12, 2010, 09:26:33 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 11, 2010, 02:17:40 PM
He's got his show on Fox, which sells himself to conservatives as a kinder, gentler republican (and doesn't antagonize the center, like Palin is doing). He has the national media profile that few others have right now. And he has a definite charisma in giving a speech.
I don't think I want him to be President (his economics were awfully to the left), but don't count him out.
His economics weren't awfully to the left they were a microscopic distance away from the Norquist-wankzone that's all. I generally agree though that he is a kinder, gentler Republican (I don't think it's a sell) and he's charm - though nowhere near as much as Palin. If I had the slightest inclination in her direction I'd be her biggest cheerleader. The Tea Party speech was a triumph.
No way Palin is charming, at least not in the way I meant it when I used that word. Charming means not having half the country thinking "wow, what a dick", which is what's happening whenever Palin opens her mouth. Huckabee has a rare trait among Republicans of being able to make his point without the other side feeling like everything they hold dear has been mocked.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on February 12, 2010, 09:54:48 PM
Don't understand why so many on the left seem to like Huckabee. Sometimes I think it's a trick to get Republicans to nominate him so they'll be annihilated in the election.
They like him for his manners, not for his politics.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on February 12, 2010, 09:54:48 PM
Don't understand why so many on the left seem to like Huckabee. Sometimes I think it's a trick to get Republicans to nominate him so they'll be annihilated in the election.
I love his charm and his rhetoric and I think a slightly more economically populist, socially conservative, hawkish ideology - such as Huck's - is pretty coherent and attractive.
I like him more as time goes on. I think he's a terribly attractive candidate.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on February 12, 2010, 09:54:48 PM
Don't understand why so many on the left seem to like Huckabee. Sometimes I think it's a trick to get Republicans to nominate him so they'll be annihilated in the election.
Indeed. This whole thread is terrifying me.
Quote from: garbon on February 12, 2010, 10:36:56 PM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on February 12, 2010, 09:54:48 PM
Don't understand why so many on the left seem to like Huckabee. Sometimes I think it's a trick to get Republicans to nominate him so they'll be annihilated in the election.
Indeed. This whole thread is terrifying me.
Katmai's post censored by TBR sanctity.
I think you're really mean.
Huckabee has a very likeable personality, but in 2012 the country won't look for a prom queen, they would look for somebody who can credibly promise to fix the country. Huckabee ain't it.
Romney can sell himself as the Mr. Fix-it, but he suffers from being to obvious a salesman too eager to make a sale. He'll have to overcome the perception of being a chamaleon. Romneycare won't help either.
Bobby Jindal wont run, but he'll be on the VP short list.
Palin is a national Rohrschacht test. the left hate her because she is married, beautiful, and successful. In short, everything they've been telling women that they can't have in combination. The beltway types hate her because she isn't your typical brain-dead ivy league pol. Obama and Biden make more retarded comments on the average newsday than Palin has in her entire time on the political stage, yet somehow she is supposedly stupid. The center doesn't like Palin because they don't like polarizing political figures, which is why she will have to work very hard to change public perception on that. Alternatively, she can just wait until all the MSM go out of business, which shouldn't take too long at the current rate. Too many conservatives are too eager to support her mainly because of the intense hatred directed at her from the left.
My favourite candidate would be Mitch Daniels, a hugely successful Governor who completely modernized the gov't in Indiana and achieved a budget surplus last year as the only state in the union.
Hans wins the thread for comedy gold!
None of the GOPers I know want to support Palin.
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 12, 2010, 10:45:11 PM
Palin is a national Rohrschacht test. the left hate her because she is married, beautiful, and successful. In short, everything they've been telling women that they can't have in combination.
That must be it.
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 12, 2010, 10:45:11 PM
Palin is a national Rohrschacht test. the left hate her because she is married, beautiful, and successful. In short, everything they've been telling women that they can't have in combination. The beltway types hate her because she isn't your typical brain-dead ivy league pol. Obama and Biden make more retarded comments on the average newsday than Palin has in her entire time on the political stage, yet somehow she is supposedly stupid. The center doesn't like Palin because they don't like polarizing political figures, which is why she will have to work very hard to change public perception on that. Alternatively, she can just wait until all the MSM go out of business, which shouldn't take too long at the current rate. Too many conservatives are too eager to support her mainly because of the intense hatred directed at her from the left.
I know about a Palin who is a science denier who's abstinence only sex ed for her kid got the kid pregnant and who's doesn't read newspapers, thinks that being mayor of a town 2000 km from Russia makes her a foreign policy specialist and is incapable of pronouncing Joe Biden's name.
Who is this Palin you are talkning about?
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 12, 2010, 10:07:54 PMeconomically populist, socially conservative
Basically the worst possible combination. With 1 of the 2 my eyes might not be bleeding enough to let me fill out a ballot, with both it'd be impossible
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 12, 2010, 10:45:11 PM
Palin is a national Rohrschacht test. the left hate her because she is married, beautiful, and successful. In short, everything they've been telling women that they can't have in combination. The beltway types hate her because she isn't your typical brain-dead ivy league pol. Obama and Biden make more retarded comments on the average newsday than Palin has in her entire time on the political stage, yet somehow she is supposedly stupid. The center doesn't like Palin because they don't like polarizing political figures, which is why she will have to work very hard to change public perception on that. Alternatively, she can just wait until all the MSM go out of business, which shouldn't take too long at the current rate. Too many conservatives are too eager to support her mainly because of the intense hatred directed at her from the left.
We need a jaw-dropping smiley for when you drop nuggets of stupidity this extreme. The left hate her because she parades around incompetency as innovation, and a dysfunctional family as a role model. The beltway types hate her because she couldn't find her ass with both hands and a road map; the typical DC type can't, either, granted, but at least they make an attempt to cover that fact. The center doesn't like Palin because the center is about compromise, which Palin is totally incapable of. You've also forgotten about the far rights who hate her because she caricatures and marginalizes them far beyond their own ability to destroy their own perceived efficacy.
And if you ever intend to be taken seriously, stop blaming everything on the "MSM." It's turned into a four-letter word with you. All they've done in Palin's case is highlight the stupidity, the hypocrisy, and let public opinion do the rest of the work for them. Are you going to claim Palin was thrown inexcusably hard questions at interviews? The left-wing conspiracy blackmailed her into scribbling crib sheets on her hands while she was trying to make a jibe about the President being a "charismatic guy with a teleprompter?"
Quote from: DontSayBanana on February 13, 2010, 12:03:03 AM
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 12, 2010, 10:45:11 PM
Palin is a national Rohrschacht test. the left hate her because she is married, beautiful, and successful. In short, everything they've been telling women that they can't have in combination. The beltway types hate her because she isn't your typical brain-dead ivy league pol. Obama and Biden make more retarded comments on the average newsday than Palin has in her entire time on the political stage, yet somehow she is supposedly stupid. The center doesn't like Palin because they don't like polarizing political figures, which is why she will have to work very hard to change public perception on that. Alternatively, she can just wait until all the MSM go out of business, which shouldn't take too long at the current rate. Too many conservatives are too eager to support her mainly because of the intense hatred directed at her from the left.
We need a jaw-dropping smiley for when you drop nuggets of stupidity this extreme. The left hate her because she parades around incompetency as innovation, and a dysfunctional family as a role model. The beltway types hate her because she couldn't find her ass with both hands and a road map; the typical DC type can't, either, granted, but at least they make an attempt to cover that fact. The center doesn't like Palin because the center is about compromise, which Palin is totally incapable of. You've also forgotten about the far rights who hate her because she caricatures and marginalizes them far beyond their own ability to destroy their own perceived efficacy.
And if you ever intend to be taken seriously, stop blaming everything on the "MSM." It's turned into a four-letter word with you. All they've done in Palin's case is highlight the stupidity, the hypocrisy, and let public opinion do the rest of the work for them. Are you going to claim Palin was thrown inexcusably hard questions at interviews? The left-wing conspiracy blackmailed her into scribbling crib sheets on her hands while she was trying to make a jibe about the President being a "charismatic guy with a teleprompter?"
I think that he is right about one thing, at least--a lot of her support on the right comes simply from the fact that the left hates her so much.
Quote from: dps on February 13, 2010, 12:41:43 AM
I think that he is right about one thing, at least--a lot of her support on the right comes simply from the fact that the left hates her so much.
I've got no problems agreeing with that. I will note, though, that the whackos that try to treat her as some kind of rising star in the political scene, rather than the government ripoff of Paris Hilton that she is, are so out of touch with reality that I don't think we need to be concerned with their ilk achieving office anytime soon.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on February 13, 2010, 12:46:37 AM
Quote from: dps on February 13, 2010, 12:41:43 AM
I think that he is right about one thing, at least--a lot of her support on the right comes simply from the fact that the left hates her so much.
I've got no problems agreeing with that. I will note, though, that the whackos that try to treat her as some kind of rising star in the political scene, rather than the government ripoff of Paris Hilton that she is, are so out of touch with reality that I don't think we need to be concerned with their ilk achieving office anytime soon.
The problem is that frequently these days American reality is out of touch with reality, so the nutters who are out of touch with reality are actually in tune with the masses.
Quote from: DGuller on February 13, 2010, 12:52:34 AM
The problem is that frequently these days American reality is out of touch with reality, so the nutters who are out of touch with reality are actually in tune with the masses.
*sigh* Sad, but you betcha.
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 12, 2010, 10:45:11 PM
Palin is a national Rohrschacht test. the left hate her because she is married, beautiful, and successful. In short, everything they've been telling women that they can't have in combination. The beltway types hate her because she isn't your typical brain-dead ivy league pol. Obama and Biden make more retarded comments on the average newsday than Palin has in her entire time on the political stage, yet somehow she is supposedly stupid. The center doesn't like Palin because they don't like polarizing political figures, which is why she will have to work very hard to change public perception on that. Alternatively, she can just wait until all the MSM go out of business, which shouldn't take too long at the current rate. Too many conservatives are too eager to support her mainly because of the intense hatred directed at her from the left.
Last year you said good things about Palin before McCain picked her and I bought it. Shame on me. You used to have interesting things to say when Bush was in office but since Obama's election every one of your political posts has been ridiculous. You've jumped the shark buddy. Stop arguing based on faith and look at the facts.
Oh snap even Yister is calling Hansie out!
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 12, 2010, 10:45:11 PM
she isn't your typical brain-dead ivy league pol
Indeed, she is a special type of brain-dead.
Careful Yi, Hans will fire you. Oh wait you're unemployed.
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 12, 2010, 10:45:11 PM
Huckabee has a very likeable personality, but in 2012 the country won't look for a prom queen, they would look for somebody who can credibly promise to fix the country. Huckabee ain't it.
Romney can sell himself as the Mr. Fix-it, but he suffers from being to obvious a salesman too eager to make a sale. He'll have to overcome the perception of being a chamaleon. Romneycare won't help either.
Bobby Jindal wont run, but he'll be on the VP short list.
Palin is a national Rohrschacht test. the left hate her because she is married, beautiful, and successful. In short, everything they've been telling women that they can't have in combination. The beltway types hate her because she isn't your typical brain-dead ivy league pol. Obama and Biden make more retarded comments on the average newsday than Palin has in her entire time on the political stage, yet somehow she is supposedly stupid. The center doesn't like Palin because they don't like polarizing political figures, which is why she will have to work very hard to change public perception on that. Alternatively, she can just wait until all the MSM go out of business, which shouldn't take too long at the current rate. Too many conservatives are too eager to support her mainly because of the intense hatred directed at her from the left.
My favourite candidate would be Mitch Daniels, a hugely successful Governor who completely modernized the gov't in Indiana and achieved a budget surplus last year as the only state in the union.
OMG are we living on the same planet? Have you seen her speak publicly? She is a complete idiot - her political views have nothing to do with it - she is just a braindead moron. I may disagree with a lot (most) of the stuff Huckabee, McCain or Giuliani say but I do not cringe with embarassment every time they open their mouths.
Hell, she makes Dubya look like an ivory tower intellectual.
Quote from: Viking on February 12, 2010, 11:07:13 PM
Who is this Palin you are talkning about?
Michael Palin's wife?
Scott Brown for US President!
There's no way in hell he's going to carry the Massachusetts Senate seat in 2012 with Obama on the ballot, so he might as well run nationally.
Quote from: dps on February 13, 2010, 12:41:43 AM
I think that he is right about one thing, at least--a lot of her support on the right comes simply from the fact that the left hates her so much.
There's something to this. I think Hans is right, though, that different people perceive her in the most remarkably different ways. Personally I think the key to her success is class over anything else, but class dare not mention its name in American politics.
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 13, 2010, 09:48:32 AM
There's something to this. I think Hans is right, though, that different people perceive her in the most remarkably different ways. Personally I think the key to her success is class over anything else, but class dare not mention its name in American politics.
I think that particular elephant needs to be discussed before we elect another populist who's not up to the job.
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 13, 2010, 09:48:32 AM
Quote from: dps on February 13, 2010, 12:41:43 AM
I think that he is right about one thing, at least--a lot of her support on the right comes simply from the fact that the left hates her so much.
There's something to this. I think Hans is right, though, that different people perceive her in the most remarkably different ways. Personally I think the key to her success is class over anything else, but class dare not mention its name in American politics.
She doesn't seem to classy to me.
Quote from: Razgovory on February 13, 2010, 09:55:00 AM
She doesn't seem to classy to me.
I think sheilbh's trying to say she's a little bit more popular with the lower classes because she doesn't come across as an "ivory tower intellectual" the way the Harvard and Yale grads in Washington do.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on February 13, 2010, 09:57:34 AM
I think sheilbh's trying to say she's a little bit more popular with the lower classes because she doesn't come across as an "ivory tower intellectual" the way the Harvard and Yale grads in Washington do.
Sort-of. I think the type of reaction she provokes is likely derived from class and I think it's strength and the sheer vociferousness of it certainly is.
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 13, 2010, 10:03:07 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on February 13, 2010, 09:57:34 AM
I think sheilbh's trying to say she's a little bit more popular with the lower classes because she doesn't come across as an "ivory tower intellectual" the way the Harvard and Yale grads in Washington do.
Sort-of. I think the type of reaction she provokes is likely derived from class and I think it's strength and the sheer vociferousness of it certainly is.
If "stupid, ignorant, and very proud of it" is a class, then you've got a point.
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 13, 2010, 10:03:07 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on February 13, 2010, 09:57:34 AM
I think sheilbh's trying to say she's a little bit more popular with the lower classes because she doesn't come across as an "ivory tower intellectual" the way the Harvard and Yale grads in Washington do.
Sort-of. I think the type of reaction she provokes is likely derived from class and I think it's strength and the sheer vociferousness of it certainly is.
Those damn Harvard and Yale elitists. Who the hell really wants to finish their term as governor? True Americans duck out of their responsibilities and go on a ghost written book tour.
Quote from: DGuller on February 13, 2010, 10:10:55 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 13, 2010, 10:03:07 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on February 13, 2010, 09:57:34 AM
I think sheilbh's trying to say she's a little bit more popular with the lower classes because she doesn't come across as an "ivory tower intellectual" the way the Harvard and Yale grads in Washington do.
Sort-of. I think the type of reaction she provokes is likely derived from class and I think it's strength and the sheer vociferousness of it certainly is.
If "stupid, ignorant, and very proud of it" is a class, then you've got a point.
I think many people felt insulted by her. Not because she was beautiful or whatever nonsense Hans was going on about but because it was felt she was chosen simply because she was a woman in a vain attempt to win Hillary voters. It is odd that many conservatives defend what is essentially an affirmative action choice.
Quote from: Razgovory on February 13, 2010, 03:54:04 PM
I think many people felt insulted by her. Not because she was beautiful or whatever nonsense Hans was going on about but because it was felt she was chosen simply because she was a woman in a vain attempt to win Hillary voters.
Anybody feeling insulted by that deserves to be.
Quote from: Razgovory on February 13, 2010, 03:54:04 PMIt is odd that many conservatives defend what is essentially an affirmative action choice.
True, although they felt they had to counter the Dems one
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on February 13, 2010, 04:11:29 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 13, 2010, 03:54:04 PMIt is odd that many conservatives defend what is essentially an affirmative action choice.
True, although they felt they had to counter the Dems one
The Dems didn't go with Hillary... :huh:
(White women are the largest beneficiary of affirmative action in the US.)
Quote from: Razgovory on February 13, 2010, 03:54:04 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 13, 2010, 10:10:55 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 13, 2010, 10:03:07 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on February 13, 2010, 09:57:34 AM
I think sheilbh's trying to say she's a little bit more popular with the lower classes because she doesn't come across as an "ivory tower intellectual" the way the Harvard and Yale grads in Washington do.
Sort-of. I think the type of reaction she provokes is likely derived from class and I think it's strength and the sheer vociferousness of it certainly is.
If "stupid, ignorant, and very proud of it" is a class, then you've got a point.
I think many people felt insulted by her. Not because she was beautiful or whatever nonsense Hans was going on about but because it was felt she was chosen simply because she was a woman in a vain attempt to win Hillary voters. It is odd that many conservatives defend what is essentially an affirmative action choice.
That's not affirmative action; it's just pandering.
Which is worse?
Quote from: Viking on February 12, 2010, 11:07:13 PM
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 12, 2010, 10:45:11 PM
Palin is a national Rohrschacht test. the left hate her because she is married, beautiful, and successful. In short, everything they've been telling women that they can't have in combination. The beltway types hate her because she isn't your typical brain-dead ivy league pol. Obama and Biden make more retarded comments on the average newsday than Palin has in her entire time on the political stage, yet somehow she is supposedly stupid. The center doesn't like Palin because they don't like polarizing political figures, which is why she will have to work very hard to change public perception on that. Alternatively, she can just wait until all the MSM go out of business, which shouldn't take too long at the current rate. Too many conservatives are too eager to support her mainly because of the intense hatred directed at her from the left.
I know about a Palin who is a science denier who's abstinence only sex ed for her kid got the kid pregnant and who's doesn't read newspapers, thinks that being mayor of a town 2000 km from Russia makes her a foreign policy specialist and is incapable of pronouncing Joe Biden's name.
Who is this Palin you are talkning about?
I'm talking about Palin, you seem to be talking about Tina Fey since you're busy quoting her.
Quote from: Martinus on February 13, 2010, 05:42:35 AM
OMG are we living on the same planet? Have you seen her speak publicly? She is a complete idiot - her political views have nothing to do with it - she is just a braindead moron. I may disagree with a lot (most) of the stuff Huckabee, McCain or Giuliani say but I do not cringe with embarassment every time they open their mouths.
Hell, she makes Dubya look like an ivory tower intellectual.
Really? Can you actually give examples or can you only assert that she sounds stupid? And how does her sounding stupid compare with Obama and Biden sounding stupid?
Hans are you actually being serious?
Palin has an IQ of 150 and the political skills of Nixon.
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 14, 2010, 08:17:22 AM
Really? Can you actually give examples or can you only assert that she sounds stupid?
Well, there was that one line that Fey's Palin quoted verbatim...
Quote from: Fate on February 14, 2010, 08:54:10 AM
Palin has an IQ of 150 and the political skills of Nixon.
Not that good considering he's be dead for quite a while.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 14, 2010, 09:16:39 AM
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 14, 2010, 08:17:22 AM
Really? Can you actually give examples or can you only assert that she sounds stupid?
Well, there was that one line that Fey's Palin quoted verbatim...
Alot of the quotes are verbatim.
Quote from: Razgovory on February 14, 2010, 12:58:09 AM
Which is worse?
Between pandering and affirmative action? Pandering, obviously.
I'm not opposed to affirmative action as such; it's just that a lot of what gets pushed as affrimative action is really just a quota system or tokenism. Or worse, reverse discrimination.
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 14, 2010, 08:15:16 AM
Quote from: Viking on February 12, 2010, 11:07:13 PM
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 12, 2010, 10:45:11 PM
Palin is a national Rohrschacht test. the left hate her because she is married, beautiful, and successful. In short, everything they've been telling women that they can't have in combination. The beltway types hate her because she isn't your typical brain-dead ivy league pol. Obama and Biden make more retarded comments on the average newsday than Palin has in her entire time on the political stage, yet somehow she is supposedly stupid. The center doesn't like Palin because they don't like polarizing political figures, which is why she will have to work very hard to change public perception on that. Alternatively, she can just wait until all the MSM go out of business, which shouldn't take too long at the current rate. Too many conservatives are too eager to support her mainly because of the intense hatred directed at her from the left.
I know about a Palin who is a science denier who's abstinence only sex ed for her kid got the kid pregnant and who's doesn't read newspapers, thinks that being mayor of a town 2000 km from Russia makes her a foreign policy specialist and is incapable of pronouncing Joe Biden's name.
Who is this Palin you are talkning about?
I'm talking about Palin, you seem to be talking about Tina Fey since you're busy quoting her.
Tina Fey's brilliance in her Palin Impersonation was to quote Palin verbatim. We (and I am a liberal in the US sense) Liberals don't like Palin because she is stupid and a bible basher. We've already seen what a stupid bible basher can do to america's standing in the world and us atlanticists don't like the idea of another one taking over.
Hansie, if this is an example of the skills of US psyops then I fear for US psyops. If this is your standard then I assume the Taliban picks up your leaflets just as much for the comedy value as the toilet paper value.
Quote from: Razgovory on February 14, 2010, 10:33:58 AM
Alot of the quotes are verbatim.
This one in particular.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npUMUASwaec (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npUMUASwaec)
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 14, 2010, 11:35:13 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 14, 2010, 10:33:58 AM
Alot of the quotes are verbatim.
This one in particular.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npUMUASwaec (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npUMUASwaec)
That one is bad.
I just don't trust someone who's political positions are dictated by what someone has written on her palm. Just imagine, a cagey bastard like Putin might have some sort of hidden stencils in his hand when he shakes Palin's hand she'd end up accidentally selling off large chunks of the US to Russia.
Quote from: Viking on February 14, 2010, 11:24:02 AM
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 14, 2010, 08:15:16 AM
Quote from: Viking on February 12, 2010, 11:07:13 PM
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 12, 2010, 10:45:11 PM
Palin is a national Rohrschacht test. the left hate her because she is married, beautiful, and successful. In short, everything they've been telling women that they can't have in combination. The beltway types hate her because she isn't your typical brain-dead ivy league pol. Obama and Biden make more retarded comments on the average newsday than Palin has in her entire time on the political stage, yet somehow she is supposedly stupid. The center doesn't like Palin because they don't like polarizing political figures, which is why she will have to work very hard to change public perception on that. Alternatively, she can just wait until all the MSM go out of business, which shouldn't take too long at the current rate. Too many conservatives are too eager to support her mainly because of the intense hatred directed at her from the left.
I know about a Palin who is a science denier who's abstinence only sex ed for her kid got the kid pregnant and who's doesn't read newspapers, thinks that being mayor of a town 2000 km from Russia makes her a foreign policy specialist and is incapable of pronouncing Joe Biden's name.
Who is this Palin you are talkning about?
I'm talking about Palin, you seem to be talking about Tina Fey since you're busy quoting her.
Tina Fey's brilliance in her Palin Impersonation was to quote Palin verbatim. We (and I am a liberal in the US sense) Liberals don't like Palin because she is stupid and a bible basher. We've already seen what a stupid bible basher can do to america's standing in the world and us atlanticists don't like the idea of another one taking over.
Hansie, if this is an example of the skills of US psyops then I fear for US psyops. If this is your standard then I assume the Taliban picks up your leaflets just as much for the comedy value as the toilet paper value.
Apparently Tina Fey was good at convincing people that she is quoting Sarah Palin. In which way is Sarah Palin a "bible basher"?
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 14, 2010, 11:35:13 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 14, 2010, 10:33:58 AM
Alot of the quotes are verbatim.
This one in particular.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npUMUASwaec (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npUMUASwaec)
How is this any different than interviews by any other politician?
Some brilliant Obama quotes:
"One such translator was an American of Haitian descent, representative of the extraordinary work that our men and women in uniform do all around the world -- Navy Corpse-Man Christian Brossard." –mispronouncing "Corpsman" (the "ps" is silent) during a speech at the National Prayer Breakfast, Washington, D.C., Feb. 5, 2010 (The Corpsman's name is also Christopher, not Christian)
"The Middle East is obviously an issue that has plagued the region for centuries." --Tampa, Fla., Jan. 28, 2010
"UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, right? It's the Post Office that's always having problems." –attempting to make the case for government-run healthcare, while simultaneously undercutting his own argument, Portsmouth, N.H., Aug. 11, 2009
"The Cambridge police acted stupidly." —commenting on a white police officer's arrest of black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. at his home in Cambridge, Mass., at a news conference, July 22, 2009
"The reforms we seek would bring greater competition, choice, savings and inefficiencies to our health care system." --in remarks after a health care roundtable with physicians, nurses and health care providers, Washington, D.C., July 20, 2009
"It was also interesting to see that political interaction in Europe is not that different from the United States Senate. There's a lot of -- I don't know what the term is in Austrian, wheeling and dealing." --confusing German for "Austrian," a language which does not exist, Strasbourg, France, April 6, 2009
"No, no. I have been practicing...I bowled a 129. It's like -- it was like Special Olympics, or something." --making an off-hand joke during an appearance on "The Tonight Show", March 19, 2009 (Obama later called the head of the Special Olympics to apologize)
"I didn't want to get into a Nancy Reagan thing about doing any seances." --after saying he had spoken with all the living presidents as he prepared to take office, Washington, D.C., Nov. 7, 2008 (Obama later called Nancy Reagan to apologize)
"I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody." -- defending his tax plan to Joe the Plumber, who argued that Obama's policy hurts small-business owners like himself, Toledo, Ohio, Oct. 12, 2008
"What I was suggesting -- you're absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith..." --in an interview with ABC's George Stephanopoulos, who jumped in to correct Obama by saying "your Christian faith," which Obama quickly clarified (Watch video clip)
"I'm here with the Girardo family here in St. Louis." --speaking via satellite to the Democratic National Convention, while in Kansas City, Missouri, Aug. 25, 2008
"Let me introduce to you the next President -- the next Vice President of the United States of America, Joe Biden." --slipping up while introducing Joe Biden at their first joint campaign rally, Springfield, Illinois, Aug. 23, 2008
"Just this past week, we passed out of the out of the U.S. Senate Banking Committee -- which is my committee -- a bill to call for divestment from Iran as way of ratcheting up the pressure to ensure that they don't obtain a nuclear weapon." --referring to a committee he is not on, Sderot, Israel, July 23, 2008
"Let me be absolutely clear. Israel is a strong friend of Israel's. It will be a strong friend of Israel's under a McCain...administration. It will be a strong friend of Israel's under an Obama administration. So that policy is not going to change." --Amman, Jordan, July 22, 2008
"How's it going, Sunshine?" --campaigning in Sunrise, Florida
"On this Memorial Day, as our nation honors its unbroken line of fallen heroes -- and I see many of them in the audience here today -- our sense of patriotism is particularly strong."
"Hold on one second, sweetie, we're going to do -- we'll do a press avail." --to a female reporter for ABC's Detroit affiliate who asked about his plan to help American autoworkers (Watch video clip)
"I've now been in 57 states -- I think one left to go." --at a campaign event in Beaverton, Oregon (Watch video clip)
"Why can't I just eat my waffle?" --after being asked a foreign policy question by a reporter while visiting a diner in Pennsylvania
"It's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." --explaining his troubles winning over some working-class voters
"The point I was making was not that Grandmother harbors any racial animosity. She doesn't. But she is a typical white person, who, if she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know, you know, there's a reaction that's been bred in our experiences that don't go away and that sometimes come out in the wrong way, and that's just the nature of race in our society."
"Come on! I just answered, like, eight questions." --exasperated by reporters after a news conference
"You're likeable enough, Hillary." --during a Democratic debate
"In case you missed it, this week, there was a tragedy in Kansas. Ten thousand people died -- an entire town destroyed." --on a Kansas tornado that killed 12 people
Hans, have you considered the "How's it going, Sunshine?" might have been a reference to the Sunshine State, and not to Sunrise, FL?
I love the "Israel" one because of the inadvertent truthfulness of it.
And I actually wish more politicians would put waffle eating ahead of reporters.
So you are comparing her to person you believe to be completely dishonest and utterly unqualified? That's great Hans!
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 14, 2010, 12:06:23 PM
Apparently Tina Fey was good at convincing people that she is quoting Sarah Palin. In which way is Sarah Palin a "bible basher"?
She did call herself a "Bible Believing Christian"
Quote from: Viking on February 14, 2010, 11:24:02 AM
Hansie, if this is an example of the skills of US psyops then I fear for US psyops. If this is your standard then I assume the Taliban picks up your leaflets just as much for the comedy value as the toilet paper value.
Hans has been running a brilliant and highly effective psyops campaign for the Democratic Party for years now.
Quote from: Maximus on February 14, 2010, 12:56:39 PM
Quote from: Viking on February 14, 2010, 11:24:02 AM
Hansie, if this is an example of the skills of US psyops then I fear for US psyops. If this is your standard then I assume the Taliban picks up your leaflets just as much for the comedy value as the toilet paper value.
Hans has been running a brilliant and highly effective psyops campaign for the Democratic Party for years now.
That I can believe.
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 14, 2010, 12:06:23 PM
In which way is Sarah Palin a "bible basher"?
She defines herself as a 'Bible-believing Christian'.
Quote from: Viking on February 14, 2010, 12:47:17 PM
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 14, 2010, 12:06:23 PM
Apparently Tina Fey was good at convincing people that she is quoting Sarah Palin. In which way is Sarah Palin a "bible basher"?
She did call herself a "Bible Believing Christian"
I think that the term you wanted to use was "Bible thumper", not "Bible basher". A Bible thumper is someone who is always quoting the Bible and is in-your-face about his faith (and there is some connotation that he is hypocritical about it, too). A Bible basher is someone who disparages the Bible and the faith it promulgates.
And that sort of misuse of words is a lot of what people jump on Palin and other conservatives or Republicans for, but tend to give liberals and Democrats a pass on (such as Obama's remarks that Hans posted). Really, it's appropriate to give politicians a pass on slipups like that--as you have inadvertantly demonstrated, it's something that everybody does, and it's not any sign of the person being stupid.
It is fun to point out such slipups and use them to make fun of politicians we don't agree with (I've certainly done it) but it doesn't actually mean anything, so don't confuse it with honest discussion of the issues.
Quote from: Maximus on February 14, 2010, 12:56:39 PM
Quote from: Viking on February 14, 2010, 11:24:02 AM
Hansie, if this is an example of the skills of US psyops then I fear for US psyops. If this is your standard then I assume the Taliban picks up your leaflets just as much for the comedy value as the toilet paper value.
Hans has been running a brilliant and highly effective psyops campaign for the Democratic Party for years now.
Counteracted by Gullermeister and Mart's constant shrill fagg0try.
Quote from: dps on February 14, 2010, 03:13:16 PM
And that sort of misuse of words is a lot of what people jump on Palin and other conservatives or Republicans for, but tend to give liberals and Democrats a pass on (such as Obama's remarks that Hans posted). Really, it's appropriate to give politicians a pass on slipups like that--as you have inadvertantly demonstrated, it's something that everybody does, and it's not any sign of the person being stupid.
It is fun to point out such slipups and use them to make fun of politicians we don't agree with (I've certainly done it) but it doesn't actually mean anything, so don't confuse it with honest discussion of the issues.
Except that in Palin's case, it isn't really slipups so much as she often spouts complete gibberish.
Quote from: Viking on February 14, 2010, 12:47:17 PM
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 14, 2010, 12:06:23 PM
Apparently Tina Fey was good at convincing people that she is quoting Sarah Palin. In which way is Sarah Palin a "bible basher"?
She did call herself a "Bible Believing Christian"
Wow, that is certainly beyond the pale, she's identifying herself with 85% of the American public, including Obama. Apparently Obama going to a nutty racist church for twenty years makes him an intellectual while Sarah Palin saying she is a christian makes her dumb. Understood.
So sofar the evidence the Palin-haters have arraigned against her has been a SNL skid by Tina Fey and the fact that she is a christian. Wow, you guys certainly have made an airtight case against her. :lmfao:
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 14, 2010, 05:18:25 PM
Quote from: Viking on February 14, 2010, 12:47:17 PM
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 14, 2010, 12:06:23 PM
Apparently Tina Fey was good at convincing people that she is quoting Sarah Palin. In which way is Sarah Palin a "bible basher"?
She did call herself a "Bible Believing Christian"
Wow, that is certainly beyond the pale, she's identifying herself with 85% of the American public, including Obama. Apparently Obama going to a nutty racist church for twenty years makes him an intellectual while Sarah Palin saying she is a christian makes her dumb. Understood.
WTF are you smoking? :huh:
Obama is neither a Christian nor an American. He's a Muslim Kenyan (or perhaps Indonesian).
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 14, 2010, 05:20:59 PM
So sofar the evidence the Palin-haters have arraigned against her has been a SNL skid by Tina Fey and the fact that she is a christian. Wow, you guys certainly have made an airtight case against her. :lmfao:
I fell off the Palin bandwagon when she couldn't even finish a single term as Governor of Alaska.
She seems like a decent enough person, but not qualified at this point to be President.
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 14, 2010, 05:18:25 PM
Wow, that is certainly beyond the pale, she's identifying herself with 85% of the American public, including Obama. Apparently Obama going to a nutty racist church for twenty years makes him an intellectual while Sarah Palin saying she is a christian makes her dumb. Understood.
That's disingenuous of you. 'Bible-believing' is a code word for 'fundamentalist Protestant', and those are far fewer than 85% of the American public.
Besides, being a fundamentalist Christian and being part of Obama's church of racial hatred is pretty much equally nutty.
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 14, 2010, 05:20:59 PM
So sofar the evidence the Palin-haters have arraigned against her has been a SNL skid by Tina Fey and the fact that she is a christian. Wow, you guys certainly have made an airtight case against her. :lmfao:
I'm pretty sure the comments were supposed to be something along the lines of: Palin claiming to be a bible believing christian = bible bashing. The implication being that she hardly models the bible at all. In other news, the case against her is simple, she's an idiot. It comes out every time she opens her mouth. I've wanted Mcain to have the repub nomination for the last decade and he managed to lose my support the instant he hitched his wagon to that stump.
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 14, 2010, 05:20:59 PM
So sofar the evidence the Palin-haters have arraigned against her has been a SNL skid by Tina Fey and the fact that she is a christian. Wow, you guys certainly have made an airtight case against her. :lmfao:
Which part of Tina Fey's sketch was it in where she wrote on her hand and quite being governor? You have in her defense copy pasted a bunch of verbal gaffes taken from thousands of public appearances that Obama (whom you believe is unqualified) has made. Palin has only done a handful of interviews and press questions. Each time she made it quite clear she didn't know what the fuck she was doing. I honestly don't know how you can go on like this with a straight face.
Quote from: Razgovory on February 14, 2010, 07:07:06 PM
I honestly don't know how you can go on like this with a straight face.
Take hope in it Raz, shows he's nuttier than you.
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 11, 2010, 07:02:04 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 10, 2010, 09:20:36 PM
Petraeus pro imperator!
I'd love it if the Republicans ran him only to discover he was like Ike :wub:
An invalid who allows his young, moderate, energetic VP to set vast swathes of policy?
Quote from: Barrister on February 14, 2010, 06:15:17 PM
Quote from: Hansmeister on February 14, 2010, 05:20:59 PM
So sofar the evidence the Palin-haters have arraigned against her has been a SNL skid by Tina Fey and the fact that she is a christian. Wow, you guys certainly have made an airtight case against her. :lmfao:
I fell off the Palin bandwagon when she couldn't even finish a single term as Governor of Alaska.
She seems like a decent enough person, but not qualified at this point to be President.
Well, I wouldn't say that I was ever on that bandwagon, but otherwise, I agree.
Though "decent enough person, but not qualified to be President" probably describes at least 2 out of the 10 Presidents we've had in my lifetime.
I guess 3 more were qualified, but jackasses, and probably 2 were both jackasses and not qualified, so that leaves at best 3 that were both qualified and decent people.
Quote from: dps on February 14, 2010, 07:44:24 PMso that leaves at best 3 that were both qualified and decent people.
Nixon, Reagan and Bush.
Quote from: dps on February 14, 2010, 07:44:24 PM
Though "decent enough person, but not qualified to be President" probably describes at least 2 out of the 10 Presidents we've had in my lifetime.
I guess 3 more were qualified, but jackasses, and probably 2 were both jackasses and not qualified, so that leaves at best 3 that were both qualified and decent people.
Hmmm... I'm going to take a guess at your ratings.
(D, ~Q) = Ford or Bush, Obama
(J, Q) = Nixon, Johnson, Clinton
(J, ~Q) = Carter, Kennedy
(D, Q) = Papa Bush, Reagan, Ford or Bush 2
Edit- forgot I hadn't put Reagan in
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 14, 2010, 08:00:32 PM
Quote from: dps on February 14, 2010, 07:44:24 PM
Though "decent enough person, but not qualified to be President" probably describes at least 2 out of the 10 Presidents we've had in my lifetime.
I guess 3 more were qualified, but jackasses, and probably 2 were both jackasses and not qualified, so that leaves at best 3 that were both qualified and decent people.
Hmmm... I'm going to take a guess at your ratings.
(D, ~Q) = Ford or Bush, Obama
(J, Q) = Nixon, Johnson, Clinton
(J, ~Q) = Carter, Kennedy
(D, Q) = Papa Bush, Reagan, Ford or Bush 2
Edit- forgot I hadn't put Reagan in
Good God, man, you only got 3 right. How the heck did you get Carter as "jackass, not qualified"? "A decent man, but in way over his head as President" is practically the textbook description of Jimmy Carter.
Post-presidency, Carter became a bigger asshole than any President, before or since.
Quote from: Neil on February 14, 2010, 08:53:44 PM
Post-presidency, Carter became a bigger asshole than any President, before or since.
Unpossible as Nixon was and shall always remain the biggest Asshole to be president.
Let me try. We have Obama, Bush 2, Clinton, Bush 1, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, LBJ, and JFK.
(D, ~Q) = Carter, Bush 2
(J, Q) = Clinton, Nixon, LBJ
(J, ~Q) = Kennedy, ???
Quote from: katmai on February 14, 2010, 08:55:03 PM
Quote from: Neil on February 14, 2010, 08:53:44 PM
Post-presidency, Carter became a bigger asshole than any President, before or since.
Unpossible as Nixon was and shall always remain the biggest Asshole to be president.
¿Por qué no te callas, trol?
Nixon was the greatest American ever, and amazing evidence of the social inequitality in your adopted country. Even though the poorest white man in America can rise to its highest office through amazing talent, the jealous elite will always bring him down.
Sigh, wouldn't expect an inbred Albertan hick to grasp the concept of greatness, so I'll just leave you to your delusions. :console:
P.S. My avatar could kick your avatar's ass in fistacuffs you pansy Canuck.
Quote from: katmai on February 14, 2010, 09:10:17 PM
Sigh, wouldn't expect an inbred Albertan hick to grasp the concept of greatness, so I'll just leave you to your delusions. :console:
Your willingness to swallow propaganda has been noted.
Quote from: katmai on February 14, 2010, 09:11:19 PM
P.S. My avatar could kick your avatar's ass in fistacuffs you pansy Canuck.
Nixon's determination would carry him to victory.
Quote from: DGuller on February 14, 2010, 09:01:28 PM
Let me try. We have Obama, Bush 2, Clinton, Bush 1, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, LBJ, and JFK.
(D, ~Q) = Carter, Bush 2
(J, Q) = Clinton, Nixon, LBJ
(J, ~Q) = Kennedy, ???
You did better than Peter Wiggins. You also only got 3 right, but you were 3 for 6 whereas he was 3 for 10.
Keep guessing if you like. I'm going to work (yeah, I'm working an overnight shift tonight), but I'll post my ratings sometime tomorrow.
Here's a small hint if you want to keep guessing--leave Bush2 out of it. I'm not sure exactly where I rate him.
Quote from: dps on February 14, 2010, 09:19:45 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 14, 2010, 09:01:28 PM
Let me try. We have Obama, Bush 2, Clinton, Bush 1, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, LBJ, and JFK.
(D, ~Q) = Carter, Bush 2
(J, Q) = Clinton, Nixon, LBJ
(J, ~Q) = Kennedy, ???
You did better than Peter Wiggins. You also only got 3 right, but you were 3 for 6 whereas he was 3 for 10.
:yeahright:
He made the same picks as me, except Carter for whom you tipped your hand between our guesses...
Quote from: Neil on February 14, 2010, 09:14:15 PM
Quote from: katmai on February 14, 2010, 09:11:19 PM
P.S. My avatar could kick your avatar's ass in fistacuffs you pansy Canuck.
Nixon's determination would carry him to victory.
That or drunkenness. Which is what happened to real Nixon, not make believe Nixon.
Quote from: dps on February 14, 2010, 03:13:16 PM
I think that the term you wanted to use was "Bible thumper", not "Bible basher". A Bible thumper is someone who is always quoting the Bible and is in-your-face about his faith (and there is some connotation that he is hypocritical about it, too). A Bible basher is someone who disparages the Bible and the faith it promulgates.
Bible basher's British for 'Bible thumper'.
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 15, 2010, 02:00:05 AM
Quote from: dps on February 14, 2010, 03:13:16 PM
I think that the term you wanted to use was "Bible thumper", not "Bible basher". A Bible thumper is someone who is always quoting the Bible and is in-your-face about his faith (and there is some connotation that he is hypocritical about it, too). A Bible basher is someone who disparages the Bible and the faith it promulgates.
Bible basher's British for 'Bible thumper'.
Damn pommies fucking up the english language!
Quote from: katmai on February 15, 2010, 02:05:55 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 15, 2010, 02:00:05 AM
Quote from: dps on February 14, 2010, 03:13:16 PM
I think that the term you wanted to use was "Bible thumper", not "Bible basher". A Bible thumper is someone who is always quoting the Bible and is in-your-face about his faith (and there is some connotation that he is hypocritical about it, too). A Bible basher is someone who disparages the Bible and the faith it promulgates.
Bible basher's British for 'Bible thumper'.
Damn pommies fucking up the english language!
Is it a candy or a sweet?
Quote from: katmai on February 15, 2010, 02:05:55 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 15, 2010, 02:00:05 AM
Quote from: dps on February 14, 2010, 03:13:16 PM
I think that the term you wanted to use was "Bible thumper", not "Bible basher". A Bible thumper is someone who is always quoting the Bible and is in-your-face about his faith (and there is some connotation that he is hypocritical about it, too). A Bible basher is someone who disparages the Bible and the faith it promulgates.
Bible basher's British for 'Bible thumper'.
Damn pommies fucking up the english language!
Not according to the self-proclaimed satanist Glen Benton vox of the (in)famous US Death Metal band Deicide
cf.
Track listing
1. "
Bible Basher" – 2:23
2. "Forever Hate You" – 3:08
3. "Standing in the Flames" – 3:32
4. "Remnant of a Hopeless Path" – 2:58
5. "The Gift That Keeps on Giving" – 3:02
6. "Halls of Warship" – 3:03
7. "Suffer Again" – 2:18
8. "Worst Enemy" – 2:47
9. "Apocalyptic Fear" – 3:21
10. "Refusal of Penance" – 4:34
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insineratehymn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insineratehymn)
Emphasis mine ;)
Hans in a nutshell:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fscienceblogs.com%2Fretrospectacle%2Fupload%2F2007%2F03%2F20070101_pointless_incessant_barking.JPG&hash=c62eb47a04239f0b26a17745f82c3e204033bff5)
OK, here's my take on the recent Presidents FWIW:
Decent Person, Not Qualified: Carter, Obama
Qualified, but Jackass: Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon
Jackass, not Qualified: Clinton, Bush2
Decent Person, Qualified: Ford, Reagan, Bush1
Note that "qualified" isn't the same as "good President". I don't think Ford was a particularly good President, but with all the years he spent in Congress, I don't think you can reasonably call him unqualified for the office.
Feel free to pick this apart; it's mostly subjective anyway. And there are few that I'm not sure exactly how I think they should be rated anyway--Bush2 in particular, but also Kennedy, Reagan, and Clinton, and to a lesser extent, Bush1.
So I actually got 5 1/2 right(Obama, Johnson, Nixon, Bush I, Reagan, 1/2 Ford), not 3 as you claimed earlier. :P
Quote from: dps on February 15, 2010, 02:50:56 PM
OK, here's my take on the recent Presidents FWIW:
Decent Person, Not Qualified: Carter, Obama
Qualified, but Jackass: Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon
Jackass, not Qualified: Clinton, Bush2
Decent Person, Qualified: Ford, Reagan, Bush1
Note that "qualified" isn't the same as "good President". I don't think Ford was a particularly good President, but with all the years he spent in Congress, I don't think you can reasonably call him unqualified for the office.
Feel free to pick this apart; it's mostly subjective anyway. And there are few that I'm not sure exactly how I think they should be rated anyway--Bush2 in particular, but also Kennedy, Reagan, and Clinton, and to a lesser extent, Bush1.
I find it hard to disagree with this list - but would not Lincoln and Eisenhower be "unqualified" as well?
I have a hard time understanding how anybody can see Palin as anything other than a reality-TV character.
I also have a hard time with Romney - is he a pragmatist, or not?
Huckabee, while I see his charm, doesn't convince me that he is of proper national stature...
Jindal... gimme a break
Thune... likewise
The GOP has some hard decisions to make if they are to make a serious run in 2012
Quote from: AnchorClanker on February 15, 2010, 05:32:34 PM
Quote from: dps on February 15, 2010, 02:50:56 PM
OK, here's my take on the recent Presidents FWIW:
Decent Person, Not Qualified: Carter, Obama
Qualified, but Jackass: Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon
Jackass, not Qualified: Clinton, Bush2
Decent Person, Qualified: Ford, Reagan, Bush1
Note that "qualified" isn't the same as "good President". I don't think Ford was a particularly good President, but with all the years he spent in Congress, I don't think you can reasonably call him unqualified for the office.
Feel free to pick this apart; it's mostly subjective anyway. And there are few that I'm not sure exactly how I think they should be rated anyway--Bush2 in particular, but also Kennedy, Reagan, and Clinton, and to a lesser extent, Bush1.
I find it hard to disagree with this list - but would not Lincoln and Eisenhower be "unqualified" as well?
Probably, particularly Lincoln. That's why I made the explicit comment that saying that someone was qualified isn't the same as saying that they were a good President. The converse is also true--someone can be seen as unqualified upon taking the office, but turn out to be a good President. I see "qualified" in this context as meaning, roughly, that you could answer "yes" to the question, "did this person, prior to becoming President, have sufficient service at high levels of government that would lead a reasonably intelligent, well-informed person to feel that they had enough experience to handle the responsibilties of the office?". Obviously, sometimes that's going to be a judgement call. Clearly, Lyndon Johnson and Gerald Ford had tons of experience in the Federal government. Nixon didn't have nearly the length of time in Congress that they did, but he spent 8 years as the most active and influential Vice-President in our history (up to that point). Before becoming President, Bush the Elder had never held any elective office except that of Vice-President (and let's face it, no one is elected Vice-President in their own right, they just get the job because of their running mate) but he had lots of experience in appointed postions. Reagan, Carter, Clinton, and Bush the Younger were all governors, but being Governor of California is a tougher job than holding the same office in Georgia, Arkansas, or Texas, and Reagan also had several years as a highly visible leader of the conservative movement on a national level, whereas Carter and Clinton were essentially unknow on a national level before their Presidential campaigns, and Bush was better know for being the son of a former President and for owning the Texas Rangers baseball team than for being Governor. Kennedy had a decent amount of experience in Congress, a lot more than Obama (and Lincoln had even less than the current President).
I'd say Eisenhower was more qualified (or less unqualified) than Lincoln because his position as highly-ranking general in WWII was closer to a political job than a normal military command (that is, his responsibilities and duties were in many ways closer to that of a executive or diplomat than that of an actual front-line commander) but he hadn't been particularly high-ranking before the war.
Quote from: AnchorClanker on February 15, 2010, 05:57:10 PM
I have a hard time understanding how anybody can see Palin as anything other than a reality-TV character.
I also have a hard time with Romney - is he a pragmatist, or not?
Huckabee, while I see his charm, doesn't convince me that he is of proper national stature...
Jindal... gimme a break
Thune... likewise
The GOP has some hard decisions to make if they are to make a serious run in 2012
What does "proper national stature" mean though? Did Clinton or Carter, or even Reagan, have 'sufficient national stature'? All of them were merely former governors, same as Huck or Jindal, or even Romney (although he has a few other lines on his resume).
Running for President can sink an awful lot of men (and women), but the very race can also build national stature. Who was Jesse Jackson before 1984, for example?
Quote from: Barrister on February 15, 2010, 06:29:43 PM
Running for President can sink an awful lot of men (and women), but the very race can also build national stature. Who was Jesse Jackson before 1984, for example?
Wasn't he with MLK when he got shot?
Quote from: Barrister on February 15, 2010, 06:29:43 PM
Who was Jesse Jackson before 1984, for example?
Just probably the best-known leader of the African-American community, on a national level, anyway. He was almost certainly more well known nationally than any black member of Congress.
Would you say he had "national stature"?
It was my impression that his Presidential run, and his "rainbow coalition", is what cemented his status, for a time, as the leading black american figure.
But I could certainly be wrong however.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 15, 2010, 06:36:01 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 15, 2010, 06:29:43 PM
Running for President can sink an awful lot of men (and women), but the very race can also build national stature. Who was Jesse Jackson before 1984, for example?
Wasn't he with MLK when he got shot?
He's always claimed that he was, but most of what I have read on the subject suggests that he actually got there several minutes after the shooting. He did make a big point of showing the press King's blood on his clothes at a news conference later that day.
If you meant "with MLK when he got shot" in a slightly broader sense than actually being physically present at the shooting, then, yes, he was definated part of the group travelling with King at the time.
Quote from: Barrister on February 15, 2010, 06:38:50 PM
Would you say he had "national stature"?
It was my impression that his Presidential run, and his "rainbow coalition", is what cemented his status, for a time, as the leading black american figure.
But I could certainly be wrong however.
I certainly knew who he was before then. But then again, I was considered to be much more well-read than the vast majority of Americans, so I don't know if that proves anything.
However, even my mother knew who he was, so that's a pretty good indication that he was pretty well-known.
EDIT: Let me try to put it another way. If you had asked white Americans at the time to give the names of prominent leaders in the black community, he would have been one of the most named people, if not THE most mentioned. I always had the impression that within the black community itself, there were a number of leaders who were more well regarded, though black people in general certainly knew who he was. So I think that it's fair to say that his run for the Presidency helped solidify his position within his target constituency, but I don't think that it necessarily make him more widely known on a national level.
Quote from: dps on February 15, 2010, 06:23:58 PM
I'd say Eisenhower was more qualified (or less unqualified) than Lincoln because his position as highly-ranking general in WWII was closer to a political job than a normal military command (that is, his responsibilities and duties were in many ways closer to that of a executive or diplomat than that of an actual front-line commander) but he hadn't been particularly high-ranking before the war.
Eisenhower was a lieutenant colonel and the chief of staff to the 3rd Army, which is pretty high-ranking in the interwar army.
Quote from: Barrister on February 15, 2010, 06:38:50 PM
Would you say he had "national stature"?
It was my impression that his Presidential run, and his "rainbow coalition", is what cemented his status, for a time, as the leading black american figure.
But I could certainly be wrong however.
You are.
Quote from: AnchorClanker on February 15, 2010, 05:57:10 PM
The GOP has some hard decisions to make if they are to make a serious run in 2012
There's still plenty of time for someone not on this list to come out of the woodwork. I don't think Bill Clinton was on anybody's radar this time in 1990.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on February 15, 2010, 08:40:57 PM
Quote from: AnchorClanker on February 15, 2010, 05:57:10 PM
The GOP has some hard decisions to make if they are to make a serious run in 2012
There's still plenty of time for someone not on this list to come out of the woodwork. I don't think Bill Clinton was on anybody's radar this time in 1990.
The primary calendar is far more compressed than it was in the early 90's. Also, fundraising and early momentum are probably more important than ever. Nowadays, I think it would be much harder for a candidate to come out of no where.
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 15, 2010, 02:00:05 AM
Quote from: dps on February 14, 2010, 03:13:16 PM
I think that the term you wanted to use was "Bible thumper", not "Bible basher". A Bible thumper is someone who is always quoting the Bible and is in-your-face about his faith (and there is some connotation that he is hypocritical about it, too). A Bible basher is someone who disparages the Bible and the faith it promulgates.
Bible basher's British for 'Bible thumper'.
How does that even make sense!? :angry:
How do lift, pram or flat make sense?
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 16, 2010, 01:03:22 AM
How does that even make sense!? :angry:
Well 'bashing' isn't too far away from 'thumping'. Though 'bashing' doesn't always mean a positive thing. For example Martinus is not a gay basher.
Quote from: sbr on February 16, 2010, 01:14:36 AM
How do lift, pram or flat make sense?
I think being lifted up and down is more accurate than elevating :P
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 16, 2010, 01:18:35 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 16, 2010, 01:03:22 AM
How does that even make sense!? :angry:
Well 'bashing' isn't too far away from 'thumping'. Though 'bashing' doesn't always mean a positive thing. For example Martinus is not a gay basher.
Yeah he only deserves to be part of a gay bashing.
Quote from: sbr on February 16, 2010, 01:14:36 AM
How do lift, pram or flat make sense?
Well, lift kind of makes sense. The elevator lifts you to the next floor.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on February 16, 2010, 01:03:22 AM
How does that even make sense!? :angry:
It's British English...
Yo! Colonial types! Start spelling Colour with a"U"!
On this side of the Atlantic fucking somebody in the fanny is not ghey.
Quote from: Viking on February 16, 2010, 02:34:09 AM
On this side of the Atlantic fucking somebody in the fanny is not ghey.
Stop trying to rationalize your homosexuality Viking.
Quote from: katmai on February 16, 2010, 02:41:26 AM
Quote from: Viking on February 16, 2010, 02:34:09 AM
On this side of the Atlantic fucking somebody in the fanny is not ghey.
Stop trying to rationalize your homosexuality Viking.
On the tube heading to lectures I heard an american tourist say ".... and I fell on my fanny!". Everybody turned and stared at her. I've never seen silence so.. eh.. silent. Even the rattling of the train went silent.
Quote from: Viking on February 16, 2010, 02:51:12 AM
On the tube heading to lectures I heard an american tourist say ".... and I fell on my fanny!". Everybody turned and stared at her. I've never seen silence so.. eh.. silent. Even the rattling of the train went silent.
What does fanny mean in Europe, hoo hoo?
We are not colonials anymore.
We are the imperialist power. :menace:
Quote from: Viking on February 16, 2010, 02:34:09 AM
Yo! Colonial types! Start spelling Colour with a"U"!
On this side of the Atlantic fucking somebody in the fanny is not ghey.
Your two comments are NOT mutually exclusive.
:contract:
Quote from: Viking on February 16, 2010, 02:34:09 AM
Yo! Colonial types! Start spelling Colour with a"U"!
On this side of the Atlantic fucking somebody in the fanny is not ghey.
Stop wasting ink and electrons on unnecessary and unpronounced letters. You're killing the Earth.
Quote from: DGuller on February 16, 2010, 03:10:43 AM
Quote from: Viking on February 16, 2010, 02:51:12 AM
On the tube heading to lectures I heard an american tourist say ".... and I fell on my fanny!". Everybody turned and stared at her. I've never seen silence so.. eh.. silent. Even the rattling of the train went silent.
What does fanny mean in Europe, hoo hoo?
Yes.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on February 16, 2010, 04:13:58 AM
Quote from: Viking on February 16, 2010, 02:34:09 AM
Yo! Colonial types! Start spelling Colour with a"U"!
On this side of the Atlantic fucking somebody in the fanny is not ghey.
Stop wasting ink and electrons on unnecessary and unpronounced letters. You're killing the Earth.
ðþöæ
Quote from: Viking on February 16, 2010, 05:58:19 AM
Quote from: DGuller on February 16, 2010, 03:10:43 AM
Quote from: Viking on February 16, 2010, 02:51:12 AM
On the tube heading to lectures I heard an american tourist say ".... and I fell on my fanny!". Everybody turned and stared at her. I've never seen silence so.. eh.. silent. Even the rattling of the train went silent.
What does fanny mean in Europe, hoo hoo?
Yes.
She fell on her yes? That doesn't make sense.
Quote from: dps on February 16, 2010, 08:34:14 AM
Quote from: Viking on February 16, 2010, 05:58:19 AM
Quote from: DGuller on February 16, 2010, 03:10:43 AM
Quote from: Viking on February 16, 2010, 02:51:12 AM
On the tube heading to lectures I heard an american tourist say ".... and I fell on my fanny!". Everybody turned and stared at her. I've never seen silence so.. eh.. silent. Even the rattling of the train went silent.
What does fanny mean in Europe, hoo hoo?
Yes.
She fell on her yes? That doesn't make sense.
Yes is one of two legitimate answers to that question.
Quote from: dps on February 16, 2010, 08:34:14 AM
Quote from: Viking on February 16, 2010, 05:58:19 AM
Quote from: DGuller on February 16, 2010, 03:10:43 AM
Quote from: Viking on February 16, 2010, 02:51:12 AM
On the tube heading to lectures I heard an american tourist say ".... and I fell on my fanny!". Everybody turned and stared at her. I've never seen silence so.. eh.. silent. Even the rattling of the train went silent.
What does fanny mean in Europe, hoo hoo?
Yes.
She fell on her yes? That doesn't make sense.
I'm fairly certain the term originates from the book "Fanny Hill" or more properly "Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure." Work it out... :)
Then along came big, fat Fanny, she was such a naughty nanny.