Best and worst crimes for employment?

[Iormlund]

Petty thefts, damage to property, minor assaults, that kind of thing.

And Iorm - the idea of banning public drinking is to prevent people before they cause problems.  Just like the idea of banning drunk driving is to prevent people before they cause accidents.

I've partaken in dozens if not hundreds of drinking gatherings in the open air, like every Spaniard in my generation. I have yet to see how responsible public drinking per se leads to problems.

Of course most people aren't homeless drunks - which is why most people drink inside their homes or in bars.  Which is why the huge majority of open liquor tickets are given to homeless people and underage kids.

Over here we've got few homeless (or had when I was growing up). 99.99% of people drinking were young people (legal age being 16). Especially during summers, when bars and flats turned into furnaces.

[Barrister]

Petty thefts, damage to property, minor assaults, that kind of thing.

And Iorm - the idea of banning public drinking is to prevent people before they cause problems.  Just like the idea of banning drunk driving is to prevent people before they cause accidents.

I've partaken in dozens if not hundreds of drinking gatherings in the open air, like every Spaniard in my generation. I have yet to see how responsible public drinking per se leads to problems.

I've partaken in such gatherings as well when I was young.  And what went on was generally not "responsible drinking".  Heck I was just prepping a file yesterday which involved a bunch of kids drinking in a ravine, and ended up with a young girl getting beaten up.

As mentioned, these kind of laws are to try and shut down the party before someone ends up in the hospital.  If things are quiet however police are not going to be called out, or will just warn those involved to "keep it down".

[Razgovory]

Seems like it would be difficult to legislate "responsible" drinking. 

[derspiess]

That's funny, because doesn't most of the world accuse Americans of behaving pretty much the same way?

Yep.  What's funny with Argies is that it's usually the women that don't want to accept that things are done differently here.  The men are more likely to go with the flow.

[Iormlund]

I've partaken in such gatherings as well when I was young.  And what went on was generally not "responsible drinking".  Heck I was just prepping a file yesterday which involved a bunch of kids drinking in a ravine, and ended up with a young girl getting beaten up.

Well, if Canadians cannot get together and drink without beating up girls I guess you're right.

[sbr]

The bad kids ruin it for everyone.

[Malthus]

Petty thefts, damage to property, minor assaults, that kind of thing.

And Iorm - the idea of banning public drinking is to prevent people before they cause problems.  Just like the idea of banning drunk driving is to prevent people before they cause accidents.

I've partaken in dozens if not hundreds of drinking gatherings in the open air, like every Spaniard in my generation. I have yet to see how responsible public drinking per se leads to problems.

Of course most people aren't homeless drunks - which is why most people drink inside their homes or in bars.  Which is why the huge majority of open liquor tickets are given to homeless people and underage kids.

Over here we've got few homeless (or had when I was growing up). 99.99% of people drinking were young people (legal age being 16). Especially during summers, when bars and flats turned into furnaces.

Well, to be fair to BB, different generally accepted social customs concerning drinking and drug-taking lead to different regulations of those activities.

Generally, I can see (albeit in an anecdotal, unscientific manner) a correlation between harsh, restrictive and punitive laws concerning these activities and hardcore alcoholism and drug abuse, and moderate legislation with a more moderate attitude towards boozing and drugging. For example, drinking is considered not such a big deal in Europe, and Europe tends to have less problems with hardcore alcoholism.

Assuming this is true, the argument of course would be which was the causation works - are harsh laws a response to hardcore problems, or in some sense do the harsh laws cause the hardcore attitude? I suspect neither is true and rather a culture which has informal, culture-based ways to moderate drinking or drugging sees less of both hardcore behaviour and harsh laws - for example, one in which having a glass or two of wine among friends outdoors is seen as harmless fun (but in which binge drinking of hard liquor is frowned on).

[garbon]

Well-heeled folks standing on the sidewalk outside the patio of a trendy bar with glasses of expensive wine in their hands - how likely are they to get ticketed by the cops? 

Depends on the whim of the cop as it seems like what you described in the rest of the post could easily be used to target all sorts of minority groups (including those of ethnicity). Sounds dreadful.

[Eddie Teach]

99.99% of people drinking were young people

Only if using grumbler's definition of the word "young". 

[Malthus]

Well-heeled folks standing on the sidewalk outside the patio of a trendy bar with glasses of expensive wine in their hands - how likely are they to get ticketed by the cops? 

Depends on the whim of the cop as it seems like what you described in the rest of the post could easily be used to target all sorts of minority groups (including those of ethnicity). Sounds dreadful.

It can be dreadful, particularly if the cops target by ethnicity as opposed to social class (or confuse the two). The most henious possible modern wrongdoing is officials wrongly applying stereotypes to middle class people on the basis of ethnicity, gender, etc.! 

For example, when I was growing up cops here in Toronto routinely used every petty law to harrass the gay population, on the assumption that gays were undesireables. Such ignorance has been fought, and now the cops proudly march in the Pride parade, and no longer harrass gays for being gay.

That doesn't mean the cops have given up classifying people into "good citizens" and "the undesireables". It just means that, in that particular case, their calibration was off. Gays as a population tend to have lots of cash ...

Anyway, I'm describing what I think goes on, not what ought to go on. Descriptive, not proscriptive. 

[The Brain]

The idea that I should be subject to CopWhim when I have a picnic in a city park is very disturbing and American.

[garbon]

Well-heeled folks standing on the sidewalk outside the patio of a trendy bar with glasses of expensive wine in their hands - how likely are they to get ticketed by the cops? 

Depends on the whim of the cop as it seems like what you described in the rest of the post could easily be used to target all sorts of minority groups (including those of ethnicity). Sounds dreadful.

It can be dreadful, particularly if the cops target by ethnicity as opposed to social class (or confuse the two). The most henious possible modern wrongdoing is officials wrongly applying stereotypes to middle class people on the basis of ethnicity, gender, etc.! 

For example, when I was growing up cops here in Toronto routinely used every petty law to harrass the gay population, on the assumption that gays were undesireables. Such ignorance has been fought, and now the cops proudly march in the Pride parade, and no longer harrass gays for being gay.

That doesn't mean the cops have given up classifying people into "good citizens" and "the undesireables". It just means that, in that particular case, their calibration was off. Gays as a population tend to have lots of cash ...

Anyway, I'm describing what I think goes on, not what ought to go on. Descriptive, not proscriptive. 

Yeah which is why I'm leery of BB's reasoning for why drinking in public is problematic. Too easy to conflate many things.

[Iormlund]

For example, drinking is considered not such a big deal in Europe, and Europe tends to have less problems with hardcore alcoholism.

Truth be told, even within Europe there are significant cultural differences. For example, from what I read here and in other places I get the impression that drinking alone is quite common in Northern Europe. I don't think I've ever done that. For me and those around me that's a sign of alcoholism and would be frowned upon.

[Admiral Yi]

Truth be told, even within Europe there are significant cultural differences. For example, from what I read here and in other places I get the impression that drinking alone is quite common in Northern Europe. I don't think I've ever done that. For me and those around me that's a sign of alcoholism and would be frowned upon.

So a wealthy real estate baron, sipping a Calvados alone in the library of his ancient manse, while examining the list of properties for sale, would be frowned upon in Spain?

[Threviel]

The idea that I should be subject to CopWhim when I have a picnic in a city park is very disturbing and American.

To be fair open alcoholic beverages are forbidden in many Swedish urban areas. My hometown for example forbids it in the town centre, a few square km. IIRC it is also forbidden in Slottsskogen in Gothenburg, a large and famous Swedish city park.