Disclosure and sex

[Ed Anger]

I've always thought of you as a centrist with enough deliberate aristocratic affectation to completely bar any left appellation, hyphenated or not.

The only real center-left that comes to mind immediately is Joan.  He has ridiculously rich person traits too, but doesn't wear them on his sleeve.

Then the moderate left is Jacob, Zoupa and Sheilbh, the radical left is me and Mihali, and the chaotic evil left is CdM.

Monger is actually an Ent, so does not count much in human affairs.

OOOOOOO! DO ME!

Wait, that didn't come out right.

[szmik]

"Of all people."  Martinus, a leftist?  Unless having quasi-sex with dudes is enough to make you leftist these days, no.

Unfortunately gays politically active are lefties most of the time, and imho they just shoot gays feet.

[Ideologue]

I have a lot of disdain for the poor and uneducated. That does not mean I cannot hold leftist views on how the state and economy should be organized. The first is a gut reaction, the second is a thought-out policy.

It's like someone who finds gay sex disgusting but supports gay rights - that does not make him a homophobe or a conservative.

You can't really have a deep disdain for the poor and be a leftist.  You can disdain the existence of an underclass, but not its members, if that makes sense.  Leftism is generally about recognizing that people are not entirely responsible, perhaps not in large part responsible, for their economic station, and that luck, including circumstance of birth, plays a major part, i.e. the market cannot allocate rewards and punishments entirely justly.

If you do believe the market's outcomes are just, but still wish for a social safety net, that just makes you a smart rightist.

The more acceptable strains of leftism have also historically been about civil freedoms, I guess.  But from an American point of view, you've not exactly championed civil liberties on a wide front.

[szmik]

i.e. the market cannot allocate rewards and punishments entirely justly.

Is there anyone/anything that can do better?   

[Ideologue]

I've always thought of you as a centrist with enough deliberate aristocratic affectation to completely bar any left appellation, hyphenated or not.

The only real center-left that comes to mind immediately is Joan.  He has ridiculously rich person traits too, but doesn't wear them on his sleeve.

Then the moderate left is Jacob, Zoupa and Sheilbh, the radical left is me and Mihali, and the chaotic evil left is CdM.

Monger is actually an Ent, so does not count much in human affairs.

OOOOOOO! DO ME!

Wait, that didn't come out right.

Well, I would do everybody.  (Lol. )  Bearing in mind that I'm bound to forget some folks so don't be offended like I asked some other girl to the cotillion.  And some of you just don't talk politics enough for me to know where you stand.

Center-right: Yi (for now, he drifts up and down the spectrum), Malthus.  Moderate right: Ed, Berkut, Barrister Boy, Habbaku, dps, derspeiss, crazy canuck, OvB (sober).  Radical right: OvB (intoxicated), Strix.  Schitck right: Neil, Slargos.

[Ideologue]

i.e. the market cannot allocate rewards and punishments entirely justly.

Is there anyone/anything that can do better?   

Allied Mastercomputer.

[The Brain]

I've always thought of you as a centrist with enough deliberate aristocratic affectation to completely bar any left appellation, hyphenated or not.

The only real center-left that comes to mind immediately is Joan.  He has ridiculously rich person traits too, but doesn't wear them on his sleeve.

Then the moderate left is Jacob, Zoupa and Sheilbh, the radical left is me and Mihali, and the chaotic evil left is CdM.

Monger is actually an Ent, so does not count much in human affairs.

OOOOOOO! DO ME!

Wait, that didn't come out right.

Well, I would do everybody.  (Lol. )  Bearing in mind that I'm bound to forget some folks so don't be offended like I asked some other girl to the cotillion.  And some of you just don't talk politics enough for me to know where you stand.

Center-right: Yi (for now, he drifts up and down the spectrum), Malthus.  Moderate right: Ed, Berkut, Barrister Boy, Habbaku, dps, derspeiss, crazy canuck, OvB (sober).  Radical right: OvB (intoxicated), Strix.  Schitck right: Neil, Slargos.

Where do I stand?

[Ideologue]

"Of all people."  Martinus, a leftist?  Unless having quasi-sex with dudes is enough to make you leftist these days, no.

Unfortunately gays politically active are lefties most of the time, and imho they just shoot gays feet.

Yeah, that's what I mean.  Martinus is a member of a lobby for equal rights--this is not a slam, there's nothing wrong with this.  This isn't exactly the same as actually advocating for broad civil liberties, which he has attacked in the past (e.g., the excesses permitted by the freedoms of religion and speech we have in the U.S., which cannot be done away with without damaging those freedoms, bother him).

[Ideologue]

Where do I stand?

Girl I didn't ask to the cotillion.

I dunno.  You too often come off as apolitical, except when it directly affects you.  I'd say center-right, as I want to think you don't hold much truck with the Swedish welfare state, and you fear its coercive powers.

Advocacy of nuclear power is traditionally associated with the right, but I think that's only because a lot of my fellow leftists (not here, I mean in general) are retarded.

[Martinus]

You can't really have a deep disdain for the poor and be a leftist.  You can disdain the existence of an underclass, but not its members, if that makes sense.  Leftism is generally about recognizing that people are not entirely responsible, perhaps not in large part responsible, for their economic station, and that luck, including circumstance of birth, plays a major part, i.e. the market cannot allocate rewards and punishments entirely justly.

The latter does not follow from the former.

I agree that people are not entirely responsible for their economic station and want the system to improve that, but at the same time recognize that people of low economic station generally tend to be more uncultured, smelly, dirty and disagreeable. I find such people aesthetically displeasing and intellectually not challenging. Worse still, they tend to fall to religious manias and are more often than not homophobic.

As I said before, I think in the modern day people too often confuse personal preference with political and ideological worldview. You can be disgusted by gay sex or annoyed by effeminate gays' demeanor, but that does not make you a homophobe. You can find ebonics grating or black chicks unattractive but that does not mean you are a racist. You can find Jews donning a silly hat and bowing to a wall or refusing to eat bacon to be rather retarded ,but that does not make you an antisemite. You can think the homeless are smelly and be repulsed by the religiousness of the poor, but that does not make you a conservative.

I think political correctness has created this insane expectation that people are supposed to like each other and if you have a problem, on the level of pure personal preference/aesthetics (that does not translate into your political views or business decisions etc.) with someone else, this means there is something wrong with you and it should be corrected.

[Martinus]

"Of all people."  Martinus, a leftist?  Unless having quasi-sex with dudes is enough to make you leftist these days, no.

Unfortunately gays politically active are lefties most of the time, and imho they just shoot gays feet.

That's only because the right is often violently and insultingly homophobic. In countries where the right stopped being like that (even if only at a skin-deep level), like the UK or the Netherlands, you immediately have many openly gay politicians espousing right wing ideas about the economy, immigration etc.

[dps]

Not that Marti would care about this one, but for casual heterosexual sex, birth control usage.

It's similar to the disease one. If you trust a person enough to rely on his or her word, no formal disclosure is necessary. If you don't, you should use protection because you should not rely on his or her word alone.

Not to mention (correct me if I'm wrong as this is not my forte), does not a woman always know if the man is using protection? Because I see no reason why what she does with her body should be of a concern to him, so I see no reason why she should disclose to him she is on a pill - if he does not want to have a child, he should use a condom. Period.

Well, a woman wouldn't know if a guy had had a vasectomy, or was simply sterile.  But as far as condoms go, they really shouldn't be your primary means of birth control--they're more of a backup.

Other than for disease prevention, I don't see the point.

This is actually a serious question--do people really just routinely pop off inside women they're having sex with?  If so, why?  They took sex ed, right?  They know that correct pill usage is impossible to visually confirm and requires a degree of trust you would be unlikely to evince in any other situation, right?

Hence, backup.

[Ed Anger]

I've always thought of you as a centrist with enough deliberate aristocratic affectation to completely bar any left appellation, hyphenated or not.

The only real center-left that comes to mind immediately is Joan.  He has ridiculously rich person traits too, but doesn't wear them on his sleeve.

Then the moderate left is Jacob, Zoupa and Sheilbh, the radical left is me and Mihali, and the chaotic evil left is CdM.

Monger is actually an Ent, so does not count much in human affairs.

OOOOOOO! DO ME!

Wait, that didn't come out right.

Well, I would do everybody.  (Lol. )  Bearing in mind that I'm bound to forget some folks so don't be offended like I asked some other girl to the cotillion.  And some of you just don't talk politics enough for me to know where you stand.

Center-right: Yi (for now, he drifts up and down the spectrum), Malthus.  Moderate right: Ed, Berkut, Barrister Boy, Habbaku, dps, derspeiss, crazy canuck, OvB (sober).  Radical right: OvB (intoxicated), Strix.  Schitck right: Neil, Slargos.

Close enough. 

[dps]

I have a lot of disdain for the poor and uneducated. That does not mean I cannot hold leftist views on how the state and economy should be organized. The first is a gut reaction, the second is a thought-out policy.

It's like someone who finds gay sex disgusting but supports gay rights - that does not make him a homophobe or a conservative.

You can't really have a deep disdain for the poor and be a leftist. 

Isn't that essentially the worldview of the classic limousine liberal?

[Ideologue]

I have a lot of disdain for the poor and uneducated. That does not mean I cannot hold leftist views on how the state and economy should be organized. The first is a gut reaction, the second is a thought-out policy.

It's like someone who finds gay sex disgusting but supports gay rights - that does not make him a homophobe or a conservative.

You can't really have a deep disdain for the poor and be a leftist. 

Isn't that essentially the worldview of the classic limousine liberal?

I don't think so.  I think there's a distinction between empathy and contempt.

Edit: Although, hell, being around poor, uneducated people again has actually aroused about as much contempt in me than empathy.  But this is from firsthand interpersonal experience as opposed to looking at ants from an ivory tower--and also because I feel some of them hold me in contempt and thus they started it.