Alt-Hist; the reality. (ATTN: This is not a Timmy like thread)

[Viking]

No, this is not a story about how the Axis or the CSA or Novgorod or The Central Powers or The Roman Empire triumphed over the Allies or the USA or Muscovy or The Entente or The Goths respectively. This thread is about a thought experiment that I think we have all done. If I could travel back in time and change the past what would I do. I don't care about the obviously selfish goals that one might have of buing real estate on top of oil/diamonds/gold etc. or shorting the various stock market crashes or monetizing some modern invention in the past. I am talking about the altruistic time traveller, the one that kills hitler or saves James Dean's life etc.

My first foray into this kind of thinking was when I was in high school and though that if I could return to 1923 with a sniper rifle I could kill hitler in the Beer Hall Putch and nobody would be any the wiser. I felt pretty smug about this plot until I heard of the SOE evaluation of the feasability of murdering Hitler. They thought it could be done quite reliably but observed that killing him would be a really really bad idea on the grounds that Hitler was more detrimental to the German war effort than any other person alive at the time. The alternative variants that I concocted were to show up before the 1929 crash, short sell everything become monstrously rich and then use my advanced technology blueprints brought from the future to kit the allies out with über equipment e.g. kitting out the allies with P-51H's and Centurion's in 1939 complete with post war doctrine manuals; the likely result of this is that the allies don't bother buying the stuff because it is way too expensive and the doctrines merely words on paper to them. The other was to approach Churchill with historical foreknowledge of upcoming events to convince him to take correct actions; this only results in Norway being saved and Chamberlain still being PM when France Falls; which in my mind is probably the worst possible result.

Setting aside the Butterfly Effect of Bradbury's "The Sound of Thunder" where everything I do might have a slight effect on the rythm my grand-dads might have a few years later when concieving my parents (resulting in a different sperm arriving first). I cannot think of any actual result which might be better than the present timeline. This is not some panglossian idiocy of the goodness of the world, no. This is the culmination of my Whig view of history. I am a person of my time holding the values of my time and any trip to the past would be to speed them along or help the present values.

Just imagine the French Army of 1939 fielding 1950's technology and doctrine stomping Hitler's Germany in a few weeks. What effect would that have on Nazism? Would it be discredited as it was by the Holocaust? Would we have open Facists and Nazis today decrying the Imperialist Liberal West imposition of "democracy" denying the various peoples of the world their National Will? Would the real philosophical tenents of facism and nazism survive as a Jubal Early style lost cause fetischism [sic]?

I know Neil would travel to 1919 and assasinate Billy Mitchell and Lettow would travel to 1861 to give Stonewall Jackson a Kevlar Vest; these are almost Languish tropes. What I'd like to know is would any actual Languishite wish to travel back in time to change som actual event for altruistic reasons? In asking this question I'll allow you to still come into being despite the fact that any change you might have on the past almost certainly will cause your granddad to scratch his balls at a slightly differnt time in a slightly different manner at some point before conceiving your parents.

What, if anything, would you want to change? Would it really be a change for the better?

[jimmy olsen]

Every scenario I've ever posted was 1,000,000,000 times more realistic than this.

[Eddie Teach]

Every scenario I've ever posted was 1,000,000,000 more like than this.

More like what? 

[jimmy olsen]

Every scenario I've ever posted was 1,000,000,000 more like than this.

More like what? 

realistic 

[11B4V]

Nothing. You didnt watch the movie, "Butterfly Effect"? You cant change anything without it impacting something else.

[Viking]

Every scenario I've ever posted was 1,000,000,000 more like than this.

More like what? 

realistic 

I think that's because my entire point is that my scenarios are completely unrealistic for the simple reason that they cannot achieve their goal and ultimately the goal is to reach today and the only way to reach today is to let the past happen as it did. The question here is is there actually something about today that people will want to change by altering the past.

[Razgovory]

I'd like to show up before WWI and tell everyone to cut that shit out.

I don't think Hitler was so detrimental to the German cause.  His role was paradoxical, they wouldn't have gotten as far as they did if he hadn't been there.  Sane people wouldn't have tried to get away with so much with such a poor hand.  However, the risky nature of Hitler's rule also meant they would inevitably over reach, eventually destroying them totally.

[Viking]

Nothing. You didnt watch the movie, "Butterfly Effect"? You cant change anything without it impacting something else.

No, I didn't watch the "Butterfly Effect" and have no intention of doing so.

[Razgovory]

Nothing. You didnt watch the movie, "Butterfly Effect"? You cant change anything without it impacting something else.

I managed to avoid it as well.  Looked terrible.

[HVC]

Nothing. You didnt watch the movie, "Butterfly Effect"? You cant change anything without it impacting something else.

No, I didn't watch the "Butterfly Effect" and have no intention of doing so.

it's actually an ok movie

[Ideologue]

Yeah, it was pleasantly surprising.  I figured it would suck, instead it was alright, and some parts are pretty good.

Anyway, past people were amoral dolts, and therefore simply dominating them would be in its own way rather altruistic, as we in the present are smarter and more ethical.  Therefore, I'd go back with guns, vehicles, ammo, and fuel, with as many people as I can entice to come along, to create a dictatorship amongst the savages in Rome, Carthage, China, or Egypt, based loosely upon U.S. constitutional principles but more solidly upon the fact that we are armed with weapons they cannot defend themselves against.

[Josquius]

Stop the American revolution, resolve things peacefully, British Commonwealth goes on to rule the world through peace, democracy and cricket.

[Monoriu]

I keep imagining myself going back in time - to tell the Germans what to do to win WWII 

[Viking]

Stop the American revolution, resolve things peacefully, British Commonwealth goes on to rule the world through peace, democracy and cricket.

How would you do that?

[Ideologue]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm the only one who has an actual, viable plan in case he ever gets a time machine.