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Are Republicans Turning Into Libertarians?

Started by MadImmortalMan, April 23, 2009, 12:23:55 PM

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fhdz

and the horse you rode in on

Neil

Quote from: Martinus on April 23, 2009, 04:04:13 PM
I thought letting fags marry was the biggest threat?  :huh:
:rolleyes:

It doesn't always come back to gays.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

garbon

Quote from: Martinus on April 23, 2009, 04:04:13 PM
I thought letting fags marry was the biggest threat?  :huh:

Well, you thought like Lit.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

DGuller

Quote from: Queequeg on April 23, 2009, 01:52:36 PM
What kind of Libertarian tries to defend torture outside of being exposed to Rand's "novels"?   :huh:
Do you want the government to tell you whether you can or can't torture people?

Sheilbh

I'm not wholly convinced.  Plus I think it would be electoral suicide for the Republicans.
Let's bomb Russia!

Barrister

Quote from: saskganesh on April 23, 2009, 03:03:05 PM
our own domestic, left party,  a big minority don't like the increased role unions have, guaranteed votes for example.

or it could be envy.  or memories of bad treatment by a union.

Ironically, my wife the public sector union kingpin, had a very negative perception of the NDP...
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Razgovory

Quote from: Barrister on April 23, 2009, 06:19:06 PM
Quote from: saskganesh on April 23, 2009, 03:03:05 PM
our own domestic, left party,  a big minority don't like the increased role unions have, guaranteed votes for example.

or it could be envy.  or memories of bad treatment by a union.

Ironically, my wife the public sector union kingpin, had a very negative perception of the NDP...

Well most people have a negative perception of the Nazis.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

KRonn

#37
Repubs will be fine, just as the Dems were fine after losing the last number of Presidential elections, and losing Congress. Dems changed, and came back while the Repubs couldn't get their act together. We'll see how the Dems do in the next short while as well. We do seem to have some self destructive political parties.

MadImmortalMan

Quote from: Sheilbh on April 23, 2009, 05:53:42 PM
I'm not wholly convinced.  Plus I think it would be electoral suicide for the Republicans.

Just because Marty says so doesn't mean the fundies are the numerical core constituency for the GOP. I think it will make them more competitive than they are now, certainly. The demo that will vote for anything so long as fags can't get married was never really that big to begin with, and it's shrinking extremely fast.
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

Sheilbh

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on April 23, 2009, 07:08:56 PMJust because Marty says so doesn't mean the fundies are the numerical core constituency for the GOP. I think it will make them more competitive than they are now, certainly. The demo that will vote for anything so long as fags can't get married was never really that big to begin with, and it's shrinking extremely fast.
White Evangelical (or born agains) form a larger part of the GOP vote than Black or union voters do the Democrats.  I read the survey Silver's talking about with the gay issue.  The problem is that while the Republicans inside the beltway seem to believe that the gay thing isn't a winner any more those outside the beltway overwhelming think it either is or that doesn't matter (only 40% 'insiders' in DC think the GOP should oppose gay marriage, while 60-70% think the party should).  Now I agree the Republicans will eventually reconcile themselves to gay marriage.  Except for a few holdouts, though, I don't think it'll happen for another 5-10 years.

While younger Republicans are overwhelmingly disinterested in gay marriage and generally believe in climate change they still, equally overwhelmingly, are pro-life.  So I don't think that issue's ever going to go away.

I also don't think the Republicans will shift to a libertarian foreign policy view any time soon, and if they do they'll renege on it when they're in office.

And, simply put, I think with the exception of the Sarah Palin option the Ron Paul Libertarian one is the most likely to produce kooks and the least likely to win elections.  I think both styles of conservatism have low ceilings.

Edit: Plus who, on a national scale, would you identify with this strand of the party?  The only one I can think of is Mark Sanford who I think could be a very persuasive candidate.  But that's it.
Let's bomb Russia!

MadImmortalMan

Quote from: Sheilbh on April 23, 2009, 07:19:30 PM

Edit: Plus who, on a national scale, would you identify with this strand of the party?  The only one I can think of is Mark Sanford who I think could be a very persuasive candidate.  But that's it.

Can't think of anybody, really. I'd like to think whoever it might be would still be a lot more mainstream than Ron Paul though.  :P

Hopefully, they're just waiting for someone to emerge.
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

DontSayBanana

Quote from: saskganesh on April 23, 2009, 02:03:45 PM
interesting that 13% of democrats think Big Unions are the biggest problem.  this gives them the lead.

as it goes against stereotype, anyone have thoughts on this?
Not necessarily; the liberal stereotype is each according to their function, while unions largely promote based on seniority (the "guess what floats to the top" argument).
Experience bij!

Queequeg

Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 23, 2009, 02:47:22 PM
Quote from: Caliga on April 23, 2009, 02:04:22 PM
Is it Spellus who thinks all Republicans are party ideologues, and I've been slandering Raz this whole time?  :(
Spellus has always stood in the front rank of Bush haters.  Maybe now that the Bush administration is over he's transferring his allegiance.
:huh:
I supported him until around Katrina.  Generally speaking. 
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."

garbon

"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Queequeg

Quote from: Caliga on April 23, 2009, 02:04:22 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on April 23, 2009, 02:03:19 PMSpellus-Speak say : All Republicans support torture.  If Republicans become Libertarians, then Libertarians will support torture.

Is it Spellus who thinks all Republicans are party ideologues, and I've been slandering Raz this whole time?  :(
I think at this point the ideologues form a much bigger part of the Republican party than their equivalents in the Democratic Party, but that seems pretty obvious .  Interestingly, this rump party is increasingly anti-tax to an extent that not even Bush's party was.

That said, I don't see libertarianism squaring with the batshit Jingonism of Hansmeister or Glenn Beck.  Taxes are needed for military equipment, at the very least.

Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."