Breaking News - Major Terrorist Attack In Oslo, Norway

[Malthus]

I doubt much of use can be deduced from this guy's rantings, except by the prosecutor, and giving them attention is exactly what he wants. Better to deprive him of that.

[Ideologue]

The server is in Texas. Texas & US law have jurisdiction.

Correction, Texas is one of the possible places that may take jurisdiction in addition to the jurisdictions of the sender and the reciever.  Now we start getting into the nuances of the conflicts of laws and really is Slargo worth all that bother.

Fuck no.

[Norgy]

Those who read the "manifesto", seem to be quite in agreement that it's a bit of a cut and paste job. He more or less cut and pasted and inserted "Cultural Marxists" in place of "leftists" the Unabomber's manifesto, according to document.no (one of his arenas for debate).

I'm not sure whether it actually turns out to be of any substance, but British police apparently is looking into this Lionheart character that's mentioned and this whole Templar order.

There are politics behind this, surely, but I am not at all convinced nowadays that ideology was a primary force. Obviously, the existence of the counterjihadist crowd with their dystopian prophecies gave him something to latch onto, but from the little that's been revealed about his past, he went from wigger to "entrepreneur" to politics to mass murder. Everything revealed about his background points towards an existence where very little has been denied him, except perhaps the right to rant and rave on a big stage.

[Ideologue]

Is it possible to ascribe genes to a country?

Only if you take an arbitrary starting point for tracking them, as I am.

Which is necessary; if you don't choose a starting point, we're all Congolese, or if you want to be really hard, we're from a tidewater somewhere lost to time.

Out of Africa: Complete Replacement has been disproved!

Paleoanthropoly hijack!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP2_fGKHExk

Okay, I watched your video, which was long, but that's fine, and it doesn't contradict anything I said.  Neanderthals came from Africa as well.

[Slargos]

Those who read the "manifesto", seem to be quite in agreement that it's a bit of a cut and paste job. He more or less cut and pasted and inserted "Cultural Marxists" in place of "leftists" the Unabomber's manifesto, according to document.no (one of his arenas for debate).

I'm not sure whether it actually turns out to be of any substance, but British police apparently is looking into this Lionheart character that's mentioned and this whole Templar order.

There are politics behind this, surely, but I am not at all convinced nowadays that ideology was a primary force. Obviously, the existence of the counterjihadist crowd with their dystopian prophecies gave him something to latch onto, but from the little that's been revealed about his past, he went from wigger to "entrepreneur" to politics to mass murder. Everything revealed about his background points towards an existence where very little has been denied him, except perhaps the right to rant and rave on a big stage.

But you see, for some it is enough to witness inequality for others in order to be offended by it. 

[Slargos]

Slargos, what's your agenda here? I'm lost at what you are trying to achieve in this thread.

Don't worry you're not alone, even he doesn't know.

Why does everything have to have a purpose?

What's your purpose in this thread?

[crazy canuck]

Unless and until we learn something different, there is no terrorist organization in which this man is embedded.  We are not dealing with a political movement or party like ETA, Tamil Tigers, Al Qaeda, or even the Red Army Faction.  It's one guy that cobbled together a pastiche of an ideology based on stuff he read in internet blogs in the like.   Programatically it is the equivalent of Lettowism.   To analyze his prolix "manifesto" in search for understanding some supposed underlying ideology of terror is to follow Alice down the rabbit hole.  And there is some danger as well - by taking his program seriously, you reinforce his narcissism and sense of importance (as per norgy).  No accident that this guy drew influence from the unabomber, another demented lone killer whose supposed program was given far more serious attention than it merited.

The suggestion that others do not share this guys exetreme racism and anti-muslim sentiments is rather hopeful.

[Norgy]

But you see, for some it is enough to witness inequality for others in order to be offended by it. 

I thought "being offended and then killing someone" was why you people hate Islam so much.

[Slargos]

But you see, for some it is enough to witness inequality for others in order to be offended by it. 

I thought "being offended and then killing someone" was why you people hate Islam so much.

I've never said I approve of his act. I understand his anger, however.

[crazy canuck]

I've never said I approve of his act. I understand his anger, however.

The suggestion that others do not share this guys exetreme racism and anti-muslim sentiments is rather hopeful.

[The Minsky Moment]

Whichever way you turn it there is a segment of the population that agrees with ABB.

Sure - there is a least one segment here on languish does.  For that matter, a lot of people agreed with some of the things the unabomber had to say, at least the stuff he had to say that could be understood in english.  But there was no wave of neo Luddite enviro-terrorist bomb attacks because there was nothing really inherent in the unabomber's program that logically entailed murdering people with mail bombs, and there was no organization that existed to pursue such a program.  The unabomber's political program was just the tattered intellectual superstructure he built around his violent derangement.  Same with this guy.  I can see no reason to think that people who happen to share certain views are going to be equally prone to violence; on the contrary, the fact that many such people exist and have existed for years without similar violence suggests otherwise.

I'm not sure what you mean by taking his program seriously. I don't suggest taking the Koran seriously but it still gives insights into Muslim terrorists.

I mean taking seriously as a causal explanation of his behavior.  I think for certain fundamentalist strands of Islam, their interpretation of the concept of the jihad does ineleluctably lead to forming an organizational capacity to commit coordinated and repeatable acts of violence.  But even there I would question the degree to which analyzing the ideology gives one real understanding about how and why Muslim terrorists acts.  Once a terrorist organization gets up and running, the dynamic of violence tends to follow its own  destructive logic.  Al Qaeda for example may have started out with a particular program and set of ultimate goals, but what is left of the organization is just a loose grouping with disparate individuals and factions pursuing various agendas, and united only by a brand name, some slogans, and sheer viciousness.

You seem to know an awful lot about his ideology btw. You actually read his crap?

Only the snippets reported in the papers, don't need to hear anymore.

[Valmy]

Unless and until we learn something different, there is no terrorist organization in which this man is embedded.  We are not dealing with a political movement or party like ETA, Tamil Tigers, Al Qaeda, or even the Red Army Faction.  It's one guy that cobbled together a pastiche of an ideology based on stuff he read in internet blogs in the like.   Programatically it is the equivalent of Lettowism.   To analyze his prolix "manifesto" in search for understanding some supposed underlying ideology of terror is to follow Alice down the rabbit hole.  And there is some danger as well - by taking his program seriously, you reinforce his narcissism and sense of importance (as per norgy).  No accident that this guy drew influence from the unabomber, another demented lone killer whose supposed program was given far more serious attention than it merited.

The suggestion that others do not share this guys exetreme racism and anti-muslim sentiments is rather hopeful.

So saying he is not part of a terrorist organization or political movement is the same as saying nobody else shares his nutty ideas?

[The Brain]

Whichever way you turn it there is a segment of the population that agrees with ABB.

Sure - there is a least one segment here on languish does.  For that matter, a lot of people agreed with some of the things the unabomber had to say, at least the stuff he had to say that could be understood in english.  But there was no wave of neo Luddite enviro-terrorist bomb attacks because there was nothing really inherent in the unabomber's program that logically entailed murdering people with mail bombs, and there was no organization that existed to pursue such a program.  The unabomber's political program was just the tattered intellectual superstructure he built around his violent derangement.  Same with this guy.  I can see no reason to think that people who happen to share certain views are going to be equally prone to violence; on the contrary, the fact that many such people exist and have existed for years without similar violence suggests otherwise.

Except of course that it's not true. In Sweden the last 20 years we had at least two anti-immigrant terrorists who were systematically killing innocent people ("The Laserman" I and II).

[mongers]

Well when I started this thread, I didn't expect the news to turn out as it has; I even included a question mark in the title because I was half-expecting it to be a gas mains explosion. 

I stand by calling him a terrorist, as it seem to me that's part of the intent of his action, to spread fear and stir up social tensions, which I'm willing to bet won't win out in Norway. I'm somewhat disappointed in the tone, if not the content of a couple of contributors posts, but hell that's free speech and I'm hoping the Norway doesn't throw out the baby with the bath water on that issue.

I hope Norway heals and doesn't become too concerned with the possible threat of further attacks from these sorts of very marginalised characters, who for the most part will only ever talk big on the internet and retreat into their sad, embittered view of the world.

Maybe we should have a Languish meet up in Oslo as a sign of solidarity ? 

[The Minsky Moment]

Except of course that it's not true. In Sweden the last 20 years we had at least two anti-immigrant terrorists who were systematically killing innocent people ("The Laserman" I and II).

"anti-immigrant" is more than a bit vague.
And I don't think you need to read a 1000+ page manifesto to grasp this guy is anti-immigrant, for whatever that fact is worth.