Breaking News - Major Terrorist Attack In Oslo, Norway

[Martinus]

The Ottoman Empire was multicultural; in that Christians, Muslims and Jews lived under different jurisdictions. I would not describe a country such as the UK or USA as multicultural..............merely tolerant.

I think that what Jacob calls "multiculturalism" is what most Americans would simply call "tolerance".  "Multiculturalism" generally means something else.

I think "multiculturalism" is a bogeyman, in the same way "political correctness" is often used. Sure, there probably are people out there who believe in it, but most people who are accused of it are rather closer to what you describe as tolerance.

[The Brain]

Didn't Germany admit that multikulti was a failure???

What about schwulenlesben?

Don't know.

[Grallon]

I don't see it, because it isn't actually the case. Your slippery slope fallacy is just that, a fallacy.

We are the products of our environment.  And when one's environment (family unit, local neighborhood, cultural community) tells one that it is acceptable, for example, to punish or ostracize or even kill one's female relatives should they misbehave, then it follows that one will feel justified to hold on to said beliefs.  Now transplant this in the context of a host society that a) sacralizes cultural diversity and individual liberty, b) feels guilty about asserting its own cultural primacy and c) go through endless intellectual contortions to avoid the dreaded 'bigotry/racism' epithet - and you get a recipe for alienation.




G.

[Solmyr]

Multiculturalism is about freedom. Within a larger framework (respect for the rule of law, human rights and acceptance of the right of other people to pursue their life as they see fit etc), you can express your culture however you see. If your culture expects you to wear particular hats, only eat shellfish, speak a particular language and only marry people who're half your age - or whatever - that's fine. And if you want to mix that with elements of other cultures, that's your business as well. You are not to be treated as a lesser member of society because your culture differs from the mainstream's.

So what happens when you expect to wear a hat in your passport photograph, demand that every restaurant carry shellfish to satisfy your needs, demand service in your particular language, and marry someone half your age when you are 20?

[Crazy_Ivan80]

The argument "start your own newspaper" is disingenious

Why the hell is it disingenuous? The idea that newspapers are to be some sort of neutral hyde parks is outdated

was it ever "indated"? Afaik, newspapers have always been beholden to this or that paymaster with this or that ideology.

[Martinus]

The argument "start your own newspaper" is disingenious

Why the hell is it disingenuous? The idea that newspapers are to be some sort of neutral hyde parks is outdated

was it ever "indated"? Afaik, newspapers have always been beholden to this or that paymaster with this or that ideology.

Well, there was some truth (or at least, reason) to that idea when barriers of entry into the media market were simply impossible to surmount for ordinary people, and therefore they had to use the media empire outlets to be heard. These days when anyone can write a blog, they are even more so outdated.

[Martim Silva]

He published Friday a 1,500-long manifesto in English called "2083 - A European Declaration of Independence".

It's all over the web now. You can also read it here: http://pt.scribd.com/doc/60739170/2083-a-European-Declaration-of-Independence

Basically, this guy thinks of himself as a Templar-like Christian Crusader. He wants to kill all Communists, Nazis, Social Democrats, Muslims and everyone that does not accept the dominance of Christianity in Europe.

Kind of what a 1100 AD Knight would think if he teleported to 2011 Europe.

He even has a very detailed list of all the "traitors" that we wants to kill. Over 400,000 in Europe, including about 10 609 in Portugal - a very precise number to be obtained by a foreigner, which means we was making stuff up*.

Basically, this guy is a complete loon that was born on the wrong era. He is the Christian version of the Bin Laden guys. And in all honesty, I don't classify pure religious nutters in the traditional political spectrum, as they are playing with another set of rules (Otherwise, we'd have to call Al-Qaeda as 'right wing').

What this does mean is that anti-muslim speech in Europe needs to be carefully monitored, as it seems that any Christian critical of Islam is a potential terrorist. And I won't go into the details of our local media, which - literally - opened the Eight o'clock News by saying "BLONDE HAIR, BLUE EYES" to describe the perpetrator.

*Also, the population numbers touted in this thread about Muslims and Jews in Europe are all off the mark.
For example, by 2005 the BBC put the number of Muslims in France between five and six million ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4385768.stm ), while the Telegraph recently revealed that 11% of the population of the UK is foreign-born ( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/8451615/Almost-one-in-eight-people-living-in-UK-are-born-abroad.html ), the vast majority of which non-europeans. And that doesn't even take into account any Muslims already born in Britain, who are counted as natives.

And the Jewish community in my city alone counts over 2,000 members (not to mention the other Jewish communities in the other portuguese cities), so that 500 number was pulled out of thin air and has zero connection with reality.

[The Brain]

So what was your impression of him when you met him at the ambassador's dinner?

[Richard Hakluyt]

A rough balance then, since about 11% of the British population chooses to live abroad.

About half the foreigners are white btw and many of the Asian immigrants are Hindu Indians and thus better Britons than half the natives of this benighted isle 

http://mighealth.net/uk/images/6/67/For.pdf

[Slargos]

A rough balance then, since about 11% of the British population chooses to live abroad.

About half the foreigners are white btw and many of the Asian immigrants are Hindu Indians and thus better Britons than half the natives of this benighted isle 

http://mighealth.net/uk/images/6/67/For.pdf

You brits are the best argument against my position on race that I can think of. 

[CountDeMoney]

Why is Poland's Jewish population so low?

I wonder...

Keep in mind though that Europeans never called no one [sic] a nigger and never had colored water fountains.

  No, no they didn't.  Just a sveral centuries of legal niceties, the occasional state-sponsored village-razing pogrom and industrial mass extermination.

[CountDeMoney]

Slargos, you're really irking my sensibilities with your shenanigans in this thread.

[Slargos]

Slargos, you're really irking my sensibilities with your shenanigans in this thread.

Far be it for me to tickle your dingle berries, Seedy.

I'm done, anyway. I don't see how this is going to develop any further before it's time for a new thread.

[Richard Hakluyt]

The point is that race (as in skin colour) is of no great importance, but culture can be a problem. Which is why your typical western country does not have laws against skin-colour but does have laws that prohibit certain cultural practices (the obvious example, cutting off a pubescent girl's clitoris).

[Ed Anger]

If Martin Bashir is the result of race-mixing in the UK, you people are fucked. Then you people send him over here. BAD BRITS.