Breaking News - Major Terrorist Attack In Oslo, Norway

[OttoVonBismarck]

John Brown's cause was just but his actions were not. His victims were several towns people that mostly had nothing to do with slavery, including a train baggage handler who was actually a freed black man. If he had gone onto a few plantations and show up overseers and owners it would have been a different thing.

[Tonitrus]

So by this logic, in 1859, in the wake of John Brown's raid, should abolishionists have re-evaluated their views and decided that human chattel slavery was OK?

I'm not familiar enough with American Civil War events to have that discussion in a useful way.

But when someone things an abstract political struggle* is important enough to start murdering innocents merely "to be heard" then I think the people should have a good long think about exactly what it is they're saying, what they want and how they're going about getting it.

*(and I think "cultural marxists vs nationalists" is much more abstract than "slavery yes or no")

Indeed.  The only way John Brown could've been cooler is if he'd killed more people.

Disagree.  He would have been cooler if he had lobbied to make slavery illegal, started up a private law enforcement agency, and then attacked the slaveowners for kidnapping.

As it stands, John Brown is the same is the Norwegian guy.

Allan Pinkerton vs. John Brown?  Sounds like a prospective episode of "Deadliest Warrior".

[CountDeMoney]

As it stands, John Brown is the same is the Norwegian guy.

Wrong, you flanneled faux-American. 

[Neil]

As it stands, John Brown is the same is the Norwegian guy.

Wrong, you flanneled faux-American.

No, I'm absolutely right.

[Jacob]

So what happens when you expect to wear a hat in your passport photograph, demand that every restaurant carry shellfish to satisfy your needs, demand service in your particular language, and marry someone half your age when you are 20?

What's the big deal about wearing a hat in a passport photo? If the face is still visible and the person wears a hat every day as part of their religious conviction, wearing the hat in the photo seems potentially more accurate for identification purposes. So I don't see any reason to make an issue of it. Go ahead and wear the hat.

You can eat whatever you want, but you don't get to tell people what to sell in their restaurants. They might want to carry shellfish to court your business, but that's up to them. On the other hand, if you're dealing with a large institution of some sort that is responsible for feeding you (prison, the army, at a remote mining camp etc) then it's reasonable to demand that your dietary restrictions are taken into account (as I believe they are).

As for service in your language, it's not about you demanding it, it's about society respecting it. If there are significant groups of people who are better served in another language it makes sense to try to do so. This isn't controversial in Canada at all - at least not in implementation - when you go to a service canada office you can be served in French or English (as per the law). In addtion, there are signs advicing you if service is available in any other language (though you may have to wait longer until the relevant person is freed up). If your ability with the official languages are so limited that you can't be served in them, there are telephone translators available. So really, it's the inverse of how you posit the question: it's not about demanding anything, it's about the government serving the population to the best of it's ability, including in other languages where necessary. For private institutions, it's the same thing - it's often good customer service (though subject to customer service analysis). It's not uncommon at all, for example, to see banks with signs saying "service available in [Mandarin/ Tagalog/ Hindi/ Spanish/ whatever]" in their windows. Again, it's not about people demanding anything - it's about how best to service your customers.

Marrying someone who's 10 years old is not allowable, because children cannot give consent to that sort of thing. But if you want to marry an 18 year old when you're 70 because that's your culture, that's alright as long everybody involved consents.

... none of those questions were tricky at all 

[Neil]

Consent is a cultural concept.

[Jacob]

I think it's dangerous and stupid to write him off like that. THAT IS ALL THAT I AM SAYING.

So fuck it. Go ahead and ban me you nearsighted cunt.

Much like it's dangerous and stupid to write off the legitimate grievances of the guys who flew planes in to the World Trade Center?

[Jacob]

The mechanics in our society which provoked this course of action are very real, and unless we take a long hard look at ourselves, I don't think this is going to be the last one.

... and you apply the same analysis and arrive at the same response when it comes to Islamicist terrorism?

[Jacob]

What we are saying is "Know thine enemy" and we should avoid engaging in comfortable delusions that allow us to merely get on with life again.

That's very reasonable.

[Jacob]

Nor did any deserve it as much. The Chinamen were a plague (still are in fact), and were horrible monsters that spread opium addiction and various other horrible things throughout the American west.

Spreading opium addiction throughout the American West only seems fair given that Americans made lots of money from spreading opium addiction throughout China during the very same time period.

[CountDeMoney]

As it stands, John Brown is the same is the Norwegian guy.

Wrong, you flanneled faux-American.

No, I'm absolutely right.

No, you're not.  And you're Albertan, which makes you twice as full of shit.

[HisMajestyBOB]

I bet there are literally dozens and dozens of Mosques in Tennessee. There is no credible threat to the ability of Muslims to build mosques in America. The basic tenet that says they can build mosques in America is not "multiculturalism", it is freedom of religion, a principle we've had for quite some time.

~17, but that also includes Muslim community centers.

[Neil]

As it stands, John Brown is the same is the Norwegian guy.

Wrong, you flanneled faux-American.

No, I'm absolutely right.

No, you're not.  And you're Albertan, which makes you twice as full of shit.

Maybe you'll be an Albertan after President Bachmann gets done with America.

[Admiral Yi]

Spreading opium addiction throughout the American West only seems fair given that Americans made lots of money from spreading opium addiction throughout China during the very same time period.

?

[DGuller]

Maybe you'll be an Albertan after President Bachmann gets done with America.

:shudder: What a way to combine two terrifying thoughts in one sentence.