[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[crazy canuck]

Now, Conservatives face the same problematic.  Hard core Conservatives believe the party is too mainstream and not different enough from the Libs.  Pragmatic centrists believe the party can't emulate the GOP if it wants to survive as a viable political alternative in Canada.  I believe these questions are solved whenever there's a leadership race.  Maxime Bernier had a more libertarian agenda, and promoted changes that would have aligned the CCP more to the GOP.  He was outvoted in favour o Scheer.  Then Scheer left and another race was held where Erin O'Toole became leader with his own centrist vision.  If people don't like it, they can easily become member of the party and either give their support to another, much more GOP-like conservative leader or make their own campaign on whatever traditional values they support, and see how that goes with the Canadian electorate.

I guess in nearly every party there is this movement where some people are seeking ideological purity above pragmatism, meaning they don't care about being elected to actually make changes, all they want is to stay on the fringe and criticize the 'system'.

Erin O'Toole positioned himself as a True Blue Conservative (his actual slogan was True Blue Leadership), and Peter Mackay was the moderate centrist, in that leadership race.  The two other candidates were Leslyn Lewis (black, woman lawyer run primarily on a Pro Life platform) and Derek Sloan (again ran on a hard-rght social conservative platform).  When Lewis and Sloan were eliminated their support went to O'Toole.

Yeah O'Toole ran a social conservative leadership contest.  One of the reasons Canadians don't really know what he stands for.

[Barrister]

Now, Conservatives face the same problematic.  Hard core Conservatives believe the party is too mainstream and not different enough from the Libs.  Pragmatic centrists believe the party can't emulate the GOP if it wants to survive as a viable political alternative in Canada.  I believe these questions are solved whenever there's a leadership race.  Maxime Bernier had a more libertarian agenda, and promoted changes that would have aligned the CCP more to the GOP.  He was outvoted in favour o Scheer.  Then Scheer left and another race was held where Erin O'Toole became leader with his own centrist vision.  If people don't like it, they can easily become member of the party and either give their support to another, much more GOP-like conservative leader or make their own campaign on whatever traditional values they support, and see how that goes with the Canadian electorate.

I guess in nearly every party there is this movement where some people are seeking ideological purity above pragmatism, meaning they don't care about being elected to actually make changes, all they want is to stay on the fringe and criticize the 'system'.

Erin O'Toole positioned himself as a True Blue Conservative (his actual slogan was True Blue Leadership), and Peter Mackay was the moderate centrist, in that leadership race.  The two other candidates were Leslyn Lewis (black, woman lawyer run primarily on a Pro Life platform) and Derek Sloan (again ran on a hard-rght social conservative platform).  When Lewis and Sloan were eliminated their support went to O'Toole.

Yeah O'Toole ran a social conservative leadership contest.  One of the reasons Canadians don't really know what he stands for.

He definitely ran to the right, but not as a social conservative (i.e. on abortion and homosexuality).  That was Lewis / Sloan.  But he did make himself comfortable for their voters to make him their 2nd or 3rd choice.

[crazy canuck]

Now, Conservatives face the same problematic.  Hard core Conservatives believe the party is too mainstream and not different enough from the Libs.  Pragmatic centrists believe the party can't emulate the GOP if it wants to survive as a viable political alternative in Canada.  I believe these questions are solved whenever there's a leadership race.  Maxime Bernier had a more libertarian agenda, and promoted changes that would have aligned the CCP more to the GOP.  He was outvoted in favour o Scheer.  Then Scheer left and another race was held where Erin O'Toole became leader with his own centrist vision.  If people don't like it, they can easily become member of the party and either give their support to another, much more GOP-like conservative leader or make their own campaign on whatever traditional values they support, and see how that goes with the Canadian electorate.

I guess in nearly every party there is this movement where some people are seeking ideological purity above pragmatism, meaning they don't care about being elected to actually make changes, all they want is to stay on the fringe and criticize the 'system'.

Erin O'Toole positioned himself as a True Blue Conservative (his actual slogan was True Blue Leadership), and Peter Mackay was the moderate centrist, in that leadership race.  The two other candidates were Leslyn Lewis (black, woman lawyer run primarily on a Pro Life platform) and Derek Sloan (again ran on a hard-rght social conservative platform).  When Lewis and Sloan were eliminated their support went to O'Toole.

Yeah O'Toole ran a social conservative leadership contest.  One of the reasons Canadians don't really know what he stands for.

He definitely ran to the right, but not as a social conservative (i.e. on abortion and homosexuality).  That was Lewis / Sloan.  But he did make himself comfortable for their voters to make him their 2nd or 3rd choice.

Thanks for the correction.   

[Jacob]

I'm curious what you think is the best way to thread the needle, as it were Beeb.

From where I sit, these are the main ones:

Environmentalism/ Climate Change - I think more and more Canadians are taking it more seriously, but I don't think the opposition from the prairie oil & gas industry has lessened. I think this may be getting tougher than it was given the increasing impact of climate change on the country.

EDIT to add: this is obviously also going to be a challenge for the NDP and the Liberals in various ways too, so there's going to be push and pull inside and between all three parties.

Social Conservatism - I think there's a whole stack of voters who want to believe the Conservatives aren't going to rock the boat too much from the (frankly) liberal consensus in the country, but that the required sops to the social conservative wing can make it hard to believe (and they're almost always sops, devastating to the individuals affected but clearly nowhere near what the social conservatives would like). The excesses of Trump and the American religious right is going to be a drag here as well. I think the best hope for the Conservatives is that other issues are more important so these types of issues slide down the priority list for voters.

Regionalism - the Conservatives recently seem to be very Prairie centric in terms of priorities and character. Sure, it'll take rural and suburban BC and Ontario votes and influence, but only where they align with the Prairie priorities. There also seems to be a real antipathy between Quebec and the Prairies (esp. Alberta, of course). It looks to me that on the Quebec side it's mostly a cynical play for internal political reasons, but that it's quite heartfelt in Alberta. IMO it would help the Conservatives if they could find a way to make inroads into Quebec, but I don't think the current posture is too helpful.

Immigration & Values & Multiculturalism - maybe this is less of an issue now, but it has definitely been a thing in the past. How much do the Conservatives want to shake up the (frankly liberal) Canadian consensus on immigration and multiculturalism? I think the snitch-line thing hurt the Conservatives back then. I haven't really heard too much on that front in recent times. Is that because it's less of an issue for the Conservative heartland now, or is it just waiting to rear its head once more?

I dunno Beeb, what do you think? How are the Conservatives threading the needle here? How should they be doing it? And are there other contentious areas that I've missed?

[Oexmelin]

[Valmy]

Conservatives and right wingers are now making the nutty Greens look reasonable. Congrats!

[Barrister]

Conservatives and right wingers are now making the nutty Greens look reasonable. Congrats!

V, you need to see how the Canadian Greens are tearing their leader apart over the issue of... Palestine.  Definitely the look of a reasonable party.

Green leader Annamie Paul is a black woman of Caribbean heritage, but who converted to Judaism upon marrying her husband.  During the Hamas-Israel flareup she sent out a message decrying violence on both sides.  That infuriated some Greens who would accept nothing less than a "Israel = apartheid" type position from the party.  They've now been taking measure to defund the leaders office and the like to try and pressure her to resign.  On the eve of an election it's all the signs of a deeply unserious party.

[Valmy]

Conservatives and right wingers are now making the nutty Greens look reasonable. Congrats!

V, you need to see how the Canadian Greens are tearing their leader apart over the issue of... Palestine.  Definitely the look of a reasonable party.

Green leader Annamie Paul is a black woman of Caribbean heritage, but who converted to Judaism upon marrying her husband.  During the Hamas-Israel flareup she sent out a message decrying violence on both sides.  That infuriated some Greens who would accept nothing less than a "Israel = apartheid" type position from the party.  They've now been taking measure to defund the leaders office and the like to try and pressure her to resign.  On the eve of an election it's all the signs of a deeply unserious party.

Reasonable on this one issue

Hence why this should be a point of shame refusing "Western Medicine" in favor of pseudo-science quackery was supposed to be their exclusive domain.

It is also weird seeing the supposed guardians of Western Civilization turning on the western science and medical tradition.

[crazy canuck]

There is more than one issue where the Greens look far more reasonable than the Conservatives.  For example, the Green party recognizes that climate change is real.

While I agree with BB that the Greens have scored a series of own goals over the Middle East, his characterization of what occurred is not entirely complete.  The thing that really sent things into a spiral was the Leader's close senior advisor responding to other Green party members who had expressed support for the Palestinians by saying on twitter:

"We will work to defeat you and bring in progressive climate champions who are antifa and pro LGBT and pro indigenous sovereignty and Zionists!!!!!"

Btw, since when has the Conservatives in Canada been the guardians of Western Civilization?

[Malthus]

Apparently the Green Party has suddenly dropped the challenge to their leader's membership status and the vote of confidence as well.

https://ipolitics.ca/2021/07/18/what-were-watching-green-execs-set-for-make-or-break-vote-on-pauls-leadership/

[Valmy]

Btw, since when has the Conservatives in Canada been the guardians of Western Civilization?

The big Conservative think tanks here have always self-appointed the guardians of Western Civilization from the self-hating white guilted liberal monsters trying to destroy all that is right and true. It is true I have no first hand knowledge that the CPC feels the same way.

[crazy canuck]

Apparently the Green Party has suddenly dropped the challenge to their leader's membership status and the vote of confidence as well.

https://ipolitics.ca/2021/07/18/what-were-watching-green-execs-set-for-make-or-break-vote-on-pauls-leadership/

The report is not quite accurate.  There was in fact an explanation for this turn of events.  There was an arbitration held which was reported by other news outlets yesterday.  All we really know is whatever happened there meant that there will not now be a review.  So it is unfortunately not a story of cooler more rational heads prevailing, but the matter actually being privately litigated.

[crazy canuck]

Btw, since when has the Conservatives in Canada been the guardians of Western Civilization?

The big Conservative think tanks here have always self-appointed the guardians of Western Civilization from the self-hating white guilted liberal monsters trying to destroy all that is right and true. It is true I have no first hand knowledge that the CPC feels the same way.

You need to have a special tag for me for when you are being sarcastic 

[Malthus]

Apparently the Green Party has suddenly dropped the challenge to their leader's membership status and the vote of confidence as well.

https://ipolitics.ca/2021/07/18/what-were-watching-green-execs-set-for-make-or-break-vote-on-pauls-leadership/

The report is not quite accurate.  There was in fact an explanation for this turn of events.  There was an arbitration held which was reported by other news outlets yesterday.  All we really know is whatever happened there meant that there will not now be a review.  So it is unfortunately not a story of cooler more rational heads prevailing, but the matter actually being privately litigated.

Well, that kinda sucks. Though any Green Party disfunctionality is presumably good news for the NDP.

[crazy canuck]

Yeah, it will be interesting to see if the NDP can gain support.  Particularly in Green strongholds here in BC.