[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[viper37]

Accounting scandals and "tricks" aren't a big deal. I'll let the CPA know, that opens up a whole new world for us

Whom do you think enabled these tricks in the first place?

[viper37]

Any talk of a sane democratic system in Canada given the multiple parties and your generally progressive outlook?

Sure.  As mentioned, Trudeau promised that 2015 would be the last election held under the first past the post system.  After winning he struck an all-party committee to study the issue.

It rapidly became apparent that each party would only support the voting system that would benefit their own party.  The Conservatives wanted no change - they typically benefit from FPTP.  The Liberals supported a ranked ballot, where you rank your selection 1, 2, 3.  This of course greatly benefits a centrist party like the Liberals, as they are usually everyone' second or third choice.

NDP on the other hand wanted proportional representation, as being the third party they typically get fewer seats compared to the total number of votes they get.

So the all-party came back recommending proportional representation (as backed by the NDP), but that it would have to be ratified in a referendum first (as backed by the Conservatives, hoping to defeat the whole idea).  The Liberals refused to sign off on the recommendation, and eventually killed the idea of electoral reform.

if we are ever to change our political system, I'd like 2-turn elections like France and an equal+elected Senate the way the US has.  It's the fairest of systems, I believe.

It ensures people can vote for their conscience in the first turn, and then make a strategic choice in the second.
With the Senate, it will balance rural representation with big cities interests.

[Josephus]

Hey if the Conservatives had gone along with proportional representation we would be preparing for a conservative minority government right now

Yes - but you'd never ever get a conservative majority government.  Plus it makes it more likely that splinter parties will form.

Yup. We'd have Israel here in Canada, and we know how well that works.

[Barrister]

Hey if the Conservatives had gone along with proportional representation we would be preparing for a conservative minority government right now

Yes - but you'd never ever get a conservative majority government.  Plus it makes it more likely that splinter parties will form.

Yup. We'd have Israel here in Canada, and we know how well that works.

And it'd depend on how exactly you assign the seats.  I'm going to assume Quebec would go nuts if it was a straight national list - they'd want lists for each province.  But that's just going to encourage a bunch of regional parties to form.

I've said it before, and will say it again - the fact that FPTP gives out majorities to parties that only win pluralities is a feature, not a bug.

[Josquius]

Which is a mistaken feature based on the thinking that Westminster style confrontational parliaments are the only way to do things.

[Sheilbh]

And it'd depend on how exactly you assign the seats.  I'm going to assume Quebec would go nuts if it was a straight national list - they'd want lists for each province.  But that's just going to encourage a bunch of regional parties to form.

Or have a mix like Scotland, Germany etc.

Loads of options.

I've said it before, and will say it again - the fact that FPTP gives out majorities to parties that only win pluralities is a feature, not a bug.

As long as it still works. If it starts to break down you don't get the advantage and just get the unfairness of it favouring a two party system.

[crazy canuck]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/10/22/urban-rural-divide-is-defining-politics-worldwide-canadas-election-is-proof/

Terribly sloppy analysis to fit a predefined theory.  The Split in the vote is regional not urban/rural.  Also left wing parties do very well in rural BC. 

[Grey Fox]

The divide is because Saltoba still thinks that the CPC is their regional Reform party.

[Zoupa]

They're not wrong.

[crazy canuck]

The divide is because Saltoba still thinks that the CPC is their regional Reform party.

That is effectively what has happened.  The big challenge for the CPC is to show they can govern beyond the regional interests of Alberta.  And the best way to demonstrate that is a serious strategy to deal with global warming. But how can they do that when the party is the home of climate change deniers?

[Josephus]

And of course independents won't do so well in a proportional representation system.

To paraphrase Churchill, at Verdun,  our system of first past the post is a horrible parliamentary system, but it's the best parliamentary system we've got

[crazy canuck]

 

[Josquius]

I prefer AV to PR. In the UK at least its important to keep that local constituency representation.

[PRC]

Should Andrew Scheer resign?

The Cons made seat gains, but despite all the Liberal scandals and corruption the Conservatives failed to unseat them.  Based on Languish alone their climate plan (or lack thereof) did not resonate and the rest of their message clearly didn't gain traction outside of their traditional regions.  Scheer has the charisma of a pebble, his French will not win him any friends in Quebec - their failure cannot be laid entirely at his feet as the overall Conservative message appeared to be empty platitudes about Trudeau rather than their own policies but one does wonder what could have been if they had someone with a pulse at the helm?

This article suggest 63% of Canadians believe he should resign, including 4 in 10 Conservative voters.

https://globalnews.ca/news/6066971/canada-election-seats-scheer-resign-poll/

[Barrister]

The survey was done on election day, and as such it was a hypothetical: what should Scheer do IF he doesn't win.

There's no obvious candidates.  A leadership race would take 18 months, and gives the Liberals free reign in the meantime.

What I would like to see, assuming the PPC is non-viable by the next election, is for the Conservatives to endorse the carbon tax.