[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[crazy canuck]

God I wish we had PR. Being in Laurier-Sainte-Marie my choice is basically vote for Gilles Duceppe (yeah, the man himself) or abstain.

My view of that has changed.  I used to be very much against.  But I think it has its value now.  You could even see the big tent parties dissolve into other more focused parties.  For example BB might get his cherished Reform party back.

The current system seems broken.

[BuddhaRhubarb]

What Yakie said pretty much sums up how I feel, minus the stuff about owning a house. I'm definitely older and crankier. and want harper gone to become the footnote he deserves to be.

Whatever Harper deserves it is certainly not a mere footnote.  He has governed successfully under a minority government.  That is a feat that has rarely occurred in our form of Parliamentary democracy.   If you really want Harper gone you should be upset at the fact that the opposition is causing an election now.  Chances are Harper will be here for a long time because of that decision.

Does not change how I feel about it. I didn't want our almost yearly elections to happen again. Even if Harper gets a majority, I don't think Canada will be any less fractious afterwards, likely more polarized. the blood Soaked anti-Iggy ads alone should stop anyone with a brain from voting Con. Childish and lamer than lame. makes us far too American in our politicking- only real issue is negative- Iggy's an asshole? likely. But likely so is Harper. And Layton.

I want to see one ad from any of the parties taht's actually about issues instead of bashing people running. Vote for me because the other guy is a jerk doesn't cut it for me.

The problem here is that the cons and libs just aren't very different in terms of actual policies. They can't come up with pithy campaign ads highlighting the virtues of their policies, because neither have any that distinguish them. 

The cons seem to have given up their vision of a conservative social policy more or less - that is, they allow individual cons to pursue bits and pieces of it, but without any conviction from the party as a whole - because, basically, they do not wish to scare away centerist voters. The libs have seemingly given up the Trudeau-era vision of a liberal Canada, but have not replaced it with anything much.

It would be difficult to articulate exactly what is really different about the actual policies of these parties without refering to their histories. Certainly, their support splits up along regional lines, but what of a unifying national vision? 

sigh, see to my mind that's even sadder, two groups who have relatively similar ideas can't find enough common ground to govern Lib/Con coalition easily being the most understandable coalition actually) because they are to busy demonizing each other's leader. :sigh:

I want government not a reality TV show.

[BuddhaRhubarb]

my other beef about the whole anti-coaltion thing is... If Parliament itself isn't a sort of coalition, even with a majority gov., then it's broken. It's not all bile & name calling, the parties do occasionally get stuff done, voting things forward, and working across party lines on lots of issues, bills, etc. This kind of bi-partisan actually working for the people instead of the party manifesto thing needs to work it's way back up to the ranks of leadership in all the parties imho.

You say no to a coalition, when there has always been one in place to start with, O Canada you silly goose. Bite your own tail much? :canuck:

[crazy canuck]

my other beef about the whole anti-coaltion thing is... If Parliament itself isn't a sort of coalition, even with a majority gov., then it's broken. It's not all bile & name calling, the parties do occasionally get stuff done, voting things forward, and working across party lines on lots of issues, bills, etc. This kind of bi-partisan actually working for the people instead of the party manifesto thing needs to work it's way back up to the ranks of leadership in all the parties imho.

You say no to a coalition, when there has always been one in place to start with, O Canada you silly goose. Bite your own tail much? :canuck:

I think you are confusing interparty cooperation with the notion of a coalition where a formal agreement is made amongst parties to share power.

Canada has always had the former and never had the latter.

edit: or at least never had a coaltion government in power.

[Barrister]

God I wish we had PR. Being in Laurier-Sainte-Marie my choice is basically vote for Gilles Duceppe (yeah, the man himself) or abstain.

My view of that has changed.  I used to be very much against.  But I think it has its value now.  You could even see the big tent parties dissolve into other more focused parties.  For example BB might get his cherished Reform party back.

The current system seems broken.

The current system seems to be working pretty well for me.

The Reform Party is cherished by me because it was my first political love.   You never forget your first.

But realistically speaking, I much prefer having a party do half of the things I want, to having an opposition party that believes in 90% of what I want.

[Neil]

But realistically speaking, I much prefer having a party do half of the things I want, to having an opposition party that believes in 90% of what I want.

Yeah, this is it.  Politics isn't a religion for me, and so there's no percentage in fundamentalism.

[crazy canuck]

The Globe is now reporting the Conservatives have opened a 14 point lead over the Libs and are in Majority territory.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/tories-enter-second-week-with-commanding-14-point-lead/article1969494/

Somewhere Jack Layton is slamming his head against a desk.

[crazy canuck]

Hey Malthus, Ibbitsen from the Globe thinks the Liberal platform has created the kind of division between parties you were looking for.  Speaking about the new social policy platform unveiled by the Liberals he said this in his op ed piece.:

Whether he [Iggy] succeeds depends on whether you believe that Canada should return to its Trudeauesque past of increased social spending paid for by higher taxes on corporations and the wealthy, or continue the Conservative emphasis on keeping taxes low while balancing the books.

The choice couldn't be simpler, or more stark.

If the Liberals have created such a choice do you think it will sell in your neck of the woods?

[Malthus]

Hey Malthus, Ibbitsen from the Globe thinks the Liberal platform has created the kind of division between parties you were looking for.  Speaking about the new social policy platform unveiled by the Liberals he said this in his op ed piece.:

Whether he [Iggy] succeeds depends on whether you believe that Canada should return to its Trudeauesque past of increased social spending paid for by higher taxes on corporations and the wealthy, or continue the Conservative emphasis on keeping taxes low while balancing the books.

The choice couldn't be simpler, or more stark.

If the Liberals have created such a choice do you think it will sell in your neck of the woods?

It will not sell with me, but I suppose it is possible it would sell with the voters - particularly those hard-hit by the recession.

[Barrister]

Hey Malthus, Ibbitsen from the Globe thinks the Liberal platform has created the kind of division between parties you were looking for.  Speaking about the new social policy platform unveiled by the Liberals he said this in his op ed piece.:

Whether he [Iggy] succeeds depends on whether you believe that Canada should return to its Trudeauesque past of increased social spending paid for by higher taxes on corporations and the wealthy, or continue the Conservative emphasis on keeping taxes low while balancing the books.

The choice couldn't be simpler, or more stark.

If the Liberals have created such a choice do you think it will sell in your neck of the woods?

It will not sell with me, but I suppose it is possible it would sell with the voters - particularly those hard-hit by the recession.

Who exactlyis hard hit by this recession (other than a few auto workers)?

Economy is booming from where I'm sitting.

[Admiral Yi]

How are the seal clubbers doing?

[crazy canuck]

Also, a question to our Quebec voters.  It looks like the Liberals are planning to get back into the field of provincial jurisdiction in a big way.   I know how most of you are going to react to that but how do you think that is going to play in ridings the Liberals might win?

Given what Malthus has said this has got to be a play for voters in Ontario and perhaps the Maritimes but then I have to wonder if this is going to hurt them in Montreal.  Or do the people who elect Quebec Liberal MPs want this sort of Federal intervention?

[Malthus]

Hey Malthus, Ibbitsen from the Globe thinks the Liberal platform has created the kind of division between parties you were looking for.  Speaking about the new social policy platform unveiled by the Liberals he said this in his op ed piece.:

Whether he [Iggy] succeeds depends on whether you believe that Canada should return to its Trudeauesque past of increased social spending paid for by higher taxes on corporations and the wealthy, or continue the Conservative emphasis on keeping taxes low while balancing the books.

The choice couldn't be simpler, or more stark.

If the Liberals have created such a choice do you think it will sell in your neck of the woods?

It will not sell with me, but I suppose it is possible it would sell with the voters - particularly those hard-hit by the recession.

Who exactlyis hard hit by this recession (other than a few auto workers)?

Economy is booming from where I'm sitting.

That's just the point. CC is asking about Ontario, where those "few auto workers" (and other manufacturing types) happen to live.

[viper37]

Also, a question to our Quebec voters.  It looks like the Liberals are planning to get back into the field of provincial jurisdiction in a big way.   I know how most of you are going to react to that but how do you think that is going to play in ridings the Liberals might win?

In these ridings, a pig with a red tie would win.  Elsewhere, they won't make any gains against the Bloc, but they may get in front of the NPD wich usually finishes 3rd o 4th, except for one riding.

Given what Malthus has said this has got to be a play for voters in Ontario and perhaps the Maritimes but then I have to wonder if this is going to hurt them in Montreal.  Or do the people who elect Quebec Liberal MPs want this sort of Federal intervention?

People who vote Liberals in Montreal are English Canadians, Italians, Greeks, maybe some Orthodox Jews though I think they've moved on to the PCC.  Aside that, a couple of 1st generation immigrants here&there.

They vote Liberals because they always voted Liberals, or because the nice lady in the van painted to the colours of the Liberal party is politely bringing them to the voting polls.  They don't really care about the policies of the Liberals, so long as they are anti-seperatist and not too much to the left.

I can't see them not voting Liberals, be it provincial or federal elections.  In some of these ridings, a pig with a red tie would win the election.

[crazy canuck]

Breaking story infers the Tories may have their own version of a sponsorship scandal on their hands regarding spending leading up to the G8.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

edit: on reading further news accounts this seems to be much ado about nothing.  Seems one of the supporters of an opposition party obtained a draft of an unreleased auditors report into spending issues that were already known related to the G8.

The Tories are saying they would cooperate fully to have the official report released.