[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[viper37]

May is a drunk who thinks that wi-fi, oil, US foreign policy, Jews and vaccines all cause autism.

Really?  I never paid much attention to her.

[viper37]

So far I'm having a hard time understanding how to separate conservative and liberal plans to decide how to vote.

Try the compass test, see if it helps you.   It never did anything for me, but apparently it helps indecisive people.

[viper37]

I've said before, this is an election between the most appealing of two fiscal conservatives. 

You wrote this, didn't you? 

[Josephus]

I've said before, this is an election between the most appealing of two fiscal conservatives. 

You wrote this, didn't you? 

;-)

[Bauer]

So far I'm having a hard time understanding how to separate conservative and liberal plans to decide how to vote.  I am not interested in any of the noise (security clearance, Brookfield assets, etc) that political campaigns unfortunately lower themselves into...

You can use more traditional ways of separation between the parties.

What's your opinion on abortion?
Small government or big government?
USA style healthcare or Universal healthcare?
Etc.

 In principle i believe in smaller government where possible but clearly there's a balancing act in most government policy that requires some regulation without being too restrictive etc.

Politicians are always trying to create those values divides to get votes but I think in reality the conversation should be more like "do we have too much tax and regulation and should we decrease it?"

In that sense I'm a fiscal conservative and I believe Canada is over regulated and overtaxed in general.  But then which party is really the one that is best for that goal?  That part is unclear to me.


I give credit to PP for focusing on things i care about most like reducing housing cost and crime / drug leniency, but seems like the liberals have adopted most of those things now and are pulling back from their left tilt under Trudeau.

Election may come down to whether or not PP can prove he's something more than an opposition attack dog.

[Barrister]

So far I'm having a hard time understanding how to separate conservative and liberal plans to decide how to vote.  I am not interested in any of the noise (security clearance, Brookfield assets, etc) that political campaigns unfortunately lower themselves into...

You can use more traditional ways of separation between the parties.

What's your opinion on abortion?
Small government or big government?
USA style healthcare or Universal healthcare?
Etc.

With all due respect GF - fuck off.

I've been hearing "abortion" and "US-style health care" as scare tactics against voting conservative my entire life.

No Conservative government in that entire time has ever attempted to ban abortion or dismantle single-payer health care.

With respect t Bauer, I will suggest that neither security clearances nor Brookfield are "noise", albeit they may not be the thing that decides his, or anyone else's, vote.

[Grey Fox]

That is true, no government has tried but regularly a Conservative MP tries to introduce a bill banning abortion.

It's not because you don't try to do what you know you will fail at that you don't want it.

Alberta's current premier tendencies are quite clear.

[viper37]

No Conservative government in that entire time has ever attempted to ban abortion or dismantle single-payer health care.

The Conservative Party has held multiple votes to restrict abortion since Harper's departure.

Cathay Wagantall tried in June 2023.  Erin O'Tool voted against C-233, but 70% of the Canadian Conservative Party + 1 former MP, indepedent at the time voted in favour.  That was 82 MPs back then.

In May 2022, Candice Bergen, interim leader of the party, ordered her members not to comment on the USSC decision of Roe v. Wade to avoid making waves.  If the party does not intend to restrict abortion, why order the members, especially the MPs, to discuss the subject?

Every single Conservative MP, 113 of them, voted for C-311, which would aggravate the penalties for striking a pregnant women.  The way it was written, it would open the door to criminalize any kind of attack against a foetus and make a distinct part of a women before birth, a slippery slope for an anti-abortion MPs.

On another subject, Pierre Poilièvre has refused to sanction the 3 MPs who met Germany's far right politicians, Christine Anderson, Dean Allison, and Leslyn Lewis.

Do I need to go back again on the anti-vaxx and conspiracy theorist movement that has taken hold of the party? The association with criminals who illegally blockaded the streets of Ottawa and an important road link the US, then our most important trading partner?  I seem to recall the Conservative Party wanting much tougher actions on such criminals in the past.  Why the sudden change of heart?

This party has changed my friend, just like the Republican Party changed after the Tea Party joined with them and took it from the inside.

The US Roe v. Wade wasn't overturned in one night.  And Poilièvre has refused to take a public pro-choice stance, promising to strike down any anti-abortion bill proposed by one of his MPs.

[Barrister]

That is true, no government has tried but regularly a Conservative MP tries to introduce a bill banning abortion.

Link me baby to just one example of a bill banning abortion.

Just one.

Alberta's current premier tendencies are quite clear.

Not so clear on abortion, as I have no clue what you're talking about.

[viper37]

We are blessed by the love of a King!

[Barrister]

No Conservative government in that entire time has ever attempted to ban abortion or dismantle single-payer health care.

The Conservative Party has held multiple votes to restrict abortion since Harper's departure.

Cathay Wagantall tried in June 2023.  Erin O'Tool voted against C-233, but 70% of the Canadian Conservative Party + 1 former MP, indepedent at the time voted in favour.  That was 82 MPs back then.

In May 2022, Candice Bergen, interim leader of the party, ordered her members not to comment on the USSC decision of Roe v. Wade to avoid making waves.  If the party does not intend to restrict abortion, why order the members, especially the MPs, to discuss the subject?

Every single Conservative MP, 113 of them, voted for C-311, which would aggravate the penalties for striking a pregnant women.  The way it was written, it would open the door to criminalize any kind of attack against a foetus and make a distinct part of a women before birth, a slippery slope for an anti-abortion MPs.

On another subject, Pierre Poilièvre has refused to sanction the 3 MPs who met Germany's far right politicians, Christine Anderson, Dean Allison, and Leslyn Lewis.

Do I need to go back again on the anti-vaxx and conspiracy theorist movement that has taken hold of the party? The association with criminals who illegally blockaded the streets of Ottawa and an important road link the US, then our most important trading partner?  I seem to recall the Conservative Party wanting much tougher actions on such criminals in the past.  Why the sudden change of heart?

This party has changed my friend, just like the Republican Party changed after the Tea Party joined with them and took it from the inside.

I can't believe this whole "secret agenda" bullshit works with some people.

A bill to ban selective sex abortion?  Must clearly be a sign they want to ban all abortion.

A bill to increase penalties for striking a pregnant woman?  Clearly they must want to ban abortion.

I wouldn't want my MPs to talk about Roe v Wade either, because no matter what they say that's anything other than a 100% full-throated support will be taken as evidence of a secret agenda to ban abortion.

Same thing with trucker protests.  Gee - the leader of the opposition says nice things about people protesting the government.  But because there are anti-vax people in the crowds, clearly the CPC is anti-vax.

I didn't even know about the "meeting with far right politicians".  I gather this is it:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/three-conservative-mps-remain-in-caucus-1.6769523

Poilievre condemnded the german politician, said his own MPs didn't know the German politician's politics and regretted the meeting - but no that's not good enough, Viper demands those politicians need to be fired.

But because they weren't, clearly... well I'm not even sure what even Viper thinks - but clearly it's something bad.  Clearly the Conservatives are actually neo-Nazis?  Racists? (well I don't think that's it, Lewis is black)


Look Poilievre has been in politics a long time, almost 20 years.  He's said a lot of stuff.  Here's a crazy idea - why don't you criticize him for stuff he actually says and does?

[Grey Fox]

That is true, no government has tried but regularly a Conservative MP tries to introduce a bill banning abortion.

Link me baby to just one example of a bill banning abortion.

Just one.

Alberta's current premier tendencies are quite clear.

Not so clear on abortion, as I have no clue what you're talking about.

Like Viper said C-311. Don't move the goal posts, it's a forced birth bill.

I meant for healthcare, Smith is a MAGA fan girl thru and true.

[Barrister]

Like Viper said C-311. Don't move the goal posts, it's a forced birth bill.

I meant for healthcare, Smith is a MAGA fan girl thru and true.

You're the one moving goalposts.

You said:

regularly a Conservative MP tries to introduce a bill banning abortion.

Please show me just one bill introduced by a Conservative MP that would ban abortion.

C-311 didn't do that.  It had nothing to do with abortion.  As mentioned, it would increase the penalties for striking a pregnant women.

[Grey Fox]

I'm confused. Cathay Wagantall doesn't qualify as a MP?

[Admiral Yi]

You're also moving goalposts Beeb.  The Renard post that prompted your fuck off didn't mention an abortion ban.  (He took the bait, which undercuts his position.)

Also I find your response to the truckers protest comment a bit strange.  Like if you were to defend Trump's "good people on both sides" re Charlottesville.