[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[HVC]

I just blame that on phobia. My mom and aunt are terrified of mice and rats. Most of my and my cousins childhood was scaring the crap out of them

[crazy canuck]

I mean I can get the delusion, people aren't really aware how big or strong some animals are, but elephant? Seriously!?!

We should focus on the 28 to 33% that thinks that a rat can kill them.

 

[Barrister]

Not trying to be disingenuous here, but what's the culture war angle here?

Is it "contraception is for WOMEN, so it's reverse-sexism" angle? Or is it "my religious belief thinks contraception is wrong, so I can't support this"? Something else?

My immediate reaction to seeing it cover diabetes and contraception is that they're probably ones that will affect very large parts of the population and will have a significant impact on peoples' quality of life. Diabetes is very common and - I think - associated with lower incomes (and thus poorer diets). Similarly, lack of access to birth control has some pretty significant impacts society wide.

So look.  Obviously I am not a clairvoyant and can not read minds.  My suggestion this is a "culture war" is an educated assessment from the available evidence, but it's notoriously hard to guess at motivations.

But I think Grey Fox has the right sense of it:

It's not a secret that C.c.onservatives hate women.

That's exactly the line the Liberals want to use in the election.  And (Liberals hope) they can get some Conservative to say something about abortion because of the contraception coverage (which is a hope not without some merit), then run on abortion rights as well.

Is contraception the area that would bring the most savings to the ehalth care system?  Again I'm not a doctor.  But you don't think statins wouldn't bring more benefits (cholesterol meds)?  I definitely think anti-psychotics would be something to look at.

[Barrister]

I just blame that on phobia. My mom and aunt are terrified of mice and rats. Most of my and my cousins childhood was scaring the crap out of them

Move to Alberta my friend! We're rat-free!

https://www.alberta.ca/albertas-rat-control-program#

[crazy canuck]

If you wanted to base your decision on the available evidence, read my post and you will learn the reason provinces have done the same thing.

[Sheilbh]

Isn't it both?

You choose it because it's something you support/agree with. But it's also a trap you hope your opponents fall into because opposing it would be very unpopular and culture war-y but some of their base or MPs may not particularly like it.

At best you get it, at worst you get it (because you'll have the votes) and either sow difficulties for your opponents or create a dividing line with them....so maybe that's at best...

I don't know the politics of contraception in Canada, but my assumption is that this is a massive bear trap with giant signs around it saying "IT's A TRAP" and the Conservatives would do very well to say nothing

[Barrister]

Isn't it both?

You choose it because it's something you support/agree with. But it's also a trap you hope your opponents fall into because opposing it would be very unpopular and culture war-y but some of their base or MPs may not particularly like it.

At best you get it, at worst you get it (because you'll have the votes) and either sow difficulties for your opponents or create a dividing line with them....so maybe that's at best...

I don't know the politics of contraception in Canada, but my assumption is that this is a massive bear trap with giant signs around it saying "IT's A TRAP" and the Conservatives would do very well to say nothing

Well and that's exactly it!  Of course while there is probably a tiny minority that is opposed to contraception, the vast majority of Canadians support contraception and family planning.  The Liberals would like nothing more than to argue the Conservatives are anti-contraception, and if some backbench Conservative MP somewhere says something to that effect they'll be all over it.

From a hard-headed political perspective it's not a bad plan - but it 100% is trying to take advantage of the culture wars.

[Jacob]

From a hard-headed political perspective it's not a bad plan - but it 100% is trying to take advantage of the culture wars.

Contraception shouldn't be part of the culture war.

The radical right is - and has been - on a rampage attacking all sorts of basic pillars of society; and the list is expanding. It's not "dirty politics" or "taking advantage" to do things that radical right-wingers dislike.

EDIT: what it looks like from my POV is that the radical right is forever on the lookout for things to get up in a froth about, expanding the culture war in all directions. There's nothing untoward  in not preemptively designing policy that caters to them. Nor is it "trying to take advantage" to create policy that fits within your political philosophy, that you think will have a net positive on society, and that your constituents may like.

[HVC]

That'd be fair if contraception was a new war ground. But it's not, it's been a thing for decades. Hell, weren't condoms only made legal in canada in the 60s?

In that light I'm more inclined to agree with BB as to why it was chosen as one of the first things to be covered.

[HVC]

To clarify I don't think it was chosen as a snub to conservatives, but as an extra sheild against conservative complaints to medical coverage.

[Barrister]

From a hard-headed political perspective it's not a bad plan - but it 100% is trying to take advantage of the culture wars.

Contraception shouldn't be part of the culture war.

The radical right is - and has been - on a rampage attacking all sorts of basic pillars of society; and the list is expanding. It's not "dirty politics" or "taking advantage" to do things that radical right-wingers dislike.

EDIT: what it looks like from my POV is that the radical right is forever on the lookout for things to get up in a froth about, expanding the culture war in all directions. There's nothing untoward  in not preemptively designing policy that caters to them. Nor is it "trying to take advantage" to create policy that fits within your political philosophy, that you think will have a net positive on society, and that your constituents may like.

So here's my contention.

From a medical point of view, there are probably better areas to extend pharmacare coverage to than contraception.  There are other chronic diseases like diabetes that would have a much better public health effect if covered than birth control.  The Trudeau government (together with the NDP) have chosen to extend coverage to contraception in order to set a political trap, more so than for the public good it would provide.  (although yes, it would provide some amount of public good).

Pharmacare as designed doesn't cover a whole bunch of areas, and one of them happens to be contraception.  It very specifically only covers two classes of drugs - and one of those is contraception.  This is no accident - it's a deliberate choice.

As such they are definitely participating in the "culture wars".

They are free to do so, of course.  I've never been offended at a certain kind of "elbows up" politics.  But I think it worthwhile to point out what's going on.  Because as I said before - it's not only the right wing that plays culture war games.

[Barrister]

To clarify I don't think it was chosen as a snub to conservatives, but as an extra sheild against conservative complaints to medical coverage.

And for me to clarify - I hope to God the Conservatives don't actually come out as against birth control on principle!  That would just be dumb (and bad policy).

But rather, I think the Liberals want to argue that Conservatives are anti-birth-control because they are opposed to pharmacare, and force Conservatives on defence on the issue.

[Josephus]

Holy shit. Mulroney is dead

[viper37]

Former Conservative Prime Minister Brian Mulroney has passed away, aged 84.

He reigned from September 1984 to June 1993.  Followed by Kim Campbell who inherited the Constitutional debacle, the unpopular GST, the unpopular FTA, a fractured party and a fractured country.

Edit:
Ninja'ed by Josephus.

[Jacob]

That'd be fair if contraception was a new war ground. But it's not, it's been a thing for decades. Hell, weren't condoms only made legal in canada in the 60s?

In that light I'm more inclined to agree with BB as to why it was chosen as one of the first things to be covered.

I thought it used to be a site of culture war, but that it'd been a settled thing for decades.