The Great Union-Busting Thread

[grumbler]

What, this is going to motivate the public sector unions to be more pro-Democrat?  As if they weren't 100% dedicated to the cause already?

  There are pro-Republican public sector unions in the US, which were not (for some reason) seen as evil as "all" public sector unions and so kept (in this case) all the union negotiating powers that no union can possibly be trusted with.  They could theoretically turn against the Republicans.  Not that they will, of course.

In Canada, your statement is probably true.

[grumbler]

Oh, I'm sure they've known all along they could;  it's just the matter of how much political will they were willing to gamble.  This kind of stuff never looks good, and there's always blowback.

Americans that don't know any better may not like unions, but one thing they definitely don't like are political machinations that don't look above board.

I agree. They wanted to avoid making their position this nakedly partisan-political.  Making the bill explicitly not about budgeting at all robs them of the fig leaf that this was about budget deficits and not the Republican Party's political ambitions.

[Admiral Yi]

Americans that don't know any better may not like unions, but one thing they definitely don't like are political machinations that don't look above board.

Such as fleeing out of state to avoid a vote?

[KRonn]

Looks like Walker got what he wanted anyway.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_wisconsin_budget_unions

I guess this was inevitable.

What, they just realized they could do this?

Nah, the Repubs and Dems knew this was doable. But both sides playing the game, stalling for time, or political timing, or what ever.

[Razgovory]

I'll look up Union thug, you see if you can find out what a "welfare thug" is.

Deal.  First result was a HuffPo link, which I'm sure you already read

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/15/tea-party-leader-melts-do_n_286933.html

Actually, I did not read it (and still haven't.  My internet connection is crap and I can't play movies).  I just saw the term used over and over on that Breitbart site.  I wondered if it was related to "welfare queen" in the conservative phraseology.

"Union thug" seems to mean, slob, cockroach, and leech or more precisely a person who doesn't want to lose their job and votes Democratic.

[derspiess]

Looks like Walker got what he wanted anyway.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_wisconsin_budget_unions

I guess this was inevitable.

Doesn't this take care of your objection that Walker was using the benefits cuts as a cover for ending collective bargaining privileges?  With it split into separate bills (which I'm still vexed as to why it took them so long to figure out they could do that), collective bargaining and benefits cuts are now separate issues.

[derspiess]

Americans that don't know any better may not like unions,

I could forgive my pro-union granddad for being stuck in the 30s & 40s, but you have no excuse.  Unions in general are an anachronism.  Public sector unions are an abomination that should have never been allowed in the first place

but one thing they definitely don't like are political machinations that don't look above board.

I'm not sure they're exactly turned on by examples of union member behavior, either.

[derspiess]

"Union thug" seems to mean, slob, cockroach, and leech or more precisely a person who doesn't want to lose their job and votes Democratic.

No.  Maybe it gets overused (but in the internet era of political debate, what term doesn't), but there are clear examples of what a union thug actually is.  If you could access Youtube you'd see them.

[Savonarola]

Looks like Walker got what he wanted anyway.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_wisconsin_budget_unions

I guess this was inevitable.

I like the CNN article on it; there's no game without polyhedron dice quite as entertaining as Politics and Punditry:

Wisconsin State Assembly takes up divisive union billFrom Ed Lavandera, CNN
March 10, 2011 10:09 a.m. EST

Madison, Wisconsin (CNN) -- Thousands of protesters began filling up the Wisconsin state Capitol building Thursday as the state Assembly prepared to vote on a new version of a bill that takes away collective bargaining powers from most state workers.

The Assembly will convene at 11 a.m. (12 p.m. ET) to vote on the revised measure, which was left only with provisions taking away collective bargaining powers and increasing health insurance and pension fund contributions.

The Assembly is expected to pass the bill, which could then reach Gov. Scott Walker's desk as early as Thursday for final approval.

Senate Republicans approved the measure in a controversial move Wednesday evening, getting around a long-running Democratic walkout by stripping financial provisions from the budget repair bill.

Nearly 200 protesters refused to leave the Capitol building after the Senate vote, sleeping on the floor of the rotunda and in front of the Assembly doors. Capitol police allowed the protesters to stay despite a court order that prohibits people from remaining inside the building at night when state business is not being conducted.



"Working families, labor leaders and concerned Wisconsinites will gather outside the Capitol to let Gov. Walker know the fight will continue," a statement from the Wisconsin AFL-CIO said.

In announcing the vote on the measure Wednesday night, Sen. Scott Fitzgerald, the chamber's Republican majority leader, said, "Tonight, the Senate will be passing the items in the Budget Repair Bill that we can with the 19 members who actually do show up and do their jobs."

The Senate's 14 Democrats had fled to Illinois to prevent the chamber from attaining a quorum and passing the collective bargaining measures, which they have called an unnecessary attack on the rights of public employees.

Democratic Sen. Jon Erpenbach said Thursday the Republican leaders violated state open meetings laws by calling the chamber into session without proper notice.

"I'd assume this would end up in court," Erpenbach told CNN's "American Morning." "We're going to get together somewhere around noon and talk about what our options are, and then take it from there."

Republicans were able to move ahead by voting only on the non-financial aspects of Walker's proposed bill, which requires fewer members for a quorum.

"The Senate Democrats have had three weeks to debate this bill and were offered repeated opportunities to come home, which they refused," Walker said in a statement on the vote. "In order to move the state forward, I applaud the Legislature's action today to stand up to the status quo and take a step in the right direction to balance the budget and reform government."

But the move drew howls of outrage from outside the chamber, where pro-union demonstrators chanted "shame" and "you lied to Wisconsin" as the bill passed. Thousands more began to converge on the building, and a chorus of horns from passing cars echoed in the streets around the Capitol after the vote.

James Palmer, executive director of the Wisconsin Professional Police Association, said officers with the Madison police department and Dane County sheriff's deputies have been placed on alert in anticipation of Thursday's protests.

Walker and GOP lawmakers are trying to close a $137 million budget shortfall with a plan that calls for curbs on public employee union bargaining rights and requires public workers, with the exception of police and firefighters, to cover more of their retirement plans and health care premiums.

Public employee unions agreed to financial concessions that they say will help meet the state's fiscal needs, but Walker has said the limits on public bargaining are a critical component of his plan. His bill, which already had passed the state Assembly, would bar public workers other than police and firefighters from bargaining for anything other than wages.

Raises would be capped to the rate of inflation, unless state voters approve. The legislation also would require unions to hold a new certification vote every year, and unions would no longer be allowed to collect dues from workers' paychecks.

Unions mobilized their supporters to oppose the bill, drawing tens of thousands of workers to rallies opposing Walker and supporting the fugitive Democrats.

Phil Neuenfeldt, president of the state AFL-CIO, said Wednesday night's maneuver "shows that Scott Walker and the Republicans have been lying throughout this entire process."

"None of the provisions that attacked workers' rights had anything to do with the budget," Neuenfeldt said. "Losing badly in the court of public opinion and failing to break the Democratic senators' principled stand, Scott Walker and the GOP have eviscerated both the letter and the spirit of the law and our democratic process to ram through their payback to their deep-pocketed friends."

But the Tea Party Express praised the developments, saying Walker was "holding strong" to his principles.

"Under tremendous pressure from union bosses, who have become irrelevant other than in their unquenchable thirst for power, Gov. Walker held fast and did what was best for the people of Wisconsin," a statement from the political action committee said. "This is a victory not only for the state, but for the nation, as many states now face their own budget battles, and will be forced to put a stop to union bullying that has become almost commonplace."

The vote in the Senate was 18-1, with Republican state Sen. Dale Schultz -- who earlier had floated a compromise that neither side bought into -- the lone opponent.

Outside, state Rep. Peter Barca argued that Republican leaders violated state open meetings laws, a move he called "a naked abuse of power."

"The gig is now up. The fraud on the people of Wisconsin is now very clear. They are now going to pass a bill to take away people's rights," Barca, a Democrat, said.

And Sen. Mark Miller, the Democratic Senate leader, said Republicans "conspired to take government away from the people."

"In 30 minutes, 18 state senators undid 50 years of civil rights in Wisconsin," Miller said in a statement condemning the vote. "Their disrespect for the people of Wisconsin and their rights is an outrage that will never be forgotten."

The problem with Wisconsinites is that they think small.  By undoing 50 years of civil rights all they've accomplished is the need to build twice as many lavatories and drinking fountains.  If they undid 150 years of civil rights they could kidnap black people and man the civil service with slave labor.

[grumbler]

The problem with Wisconsinites is that they think small.  By undoing 50 years of civil rights all they've accomplished is the need to build twice as many lavatories and drinking fountains.  If they undid 150 years of civil rights they could kidnap black people and man the civil service with slave labor.

If the legislature had only required that they themselves follow the rules they set for others, they could have done more good.  They should have made it so that elected officials could not collect taxes for their own pay from the taxpayers' wages (require such taxes to be paid voluntarily), and require that voters approve the continued tenure of each state-level elected official every year.  What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, no?

[MadImmortalMan]

Death threats.


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20041660-503544.html

"This is how it's going to happen: I as well as many others know where you and your family live, it's a matter of public records. We have all planned to assult (sic) you by arriving at your house and putting a nice little bullet in your head. However, this isn't enough. We also have decided that this may not be enough to send the message. So we have built several bombs that we have placed in various locations around the areas in which we know that you frequent..."

[Barrister]

there's no game without polyhedron dice quite as entertaining as Politics and Punditry:

Very nice phrase.

[The Brain]

Death threats.


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20041660-503544.html

"This is how it's going to happen: I as well as many others know where you and your family live, it's a matter of public records. We have all planned to assult (sic) you by arriving at your house and putting a nice little bullet in your head. However, this isn't enough. We also have decided that this may not be enough to send the message. So we have built several bombs that we have placed in various locations around the areas in which we know that you frequent..."

Good old Socialists.

[KRonn]

Death threats.


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20041660-503544.html

"This is how it's going to happen: I as well as many others know where you and your family live, it's a matter of public records. We have all planned to assult (sic) you by arriving at your house and putting a nice little bullet in your head. However, this isn't enough. We also have decided that this may not be enough to send the message. So we have built several bombs that we have placed in various locations around the areas in which we know that you frequent..."

Good old Socialists.

Looks like Congressman King needs a lot more home grown terrorist hearings!!   

[garbon]

Terror - what a civilized way to get what you want.