New boardgames

[The Larch]

So new RoR is less difficult than old RoR?


BTW I am looking for an European time-zone PBEM opponent who can do turns during office hours so I am less bored. I am flexible in regards game to be played.

The old RoR is way too hard in the Early Republic phase, IMO the changes improve playability. The new edition is still tough, don't get me wrong, it's simply not agonic anymore.

[The Larch]

Well, the new edition (and maybe the old one, too?) offers the chance to play a "campaign game" that just continues right on from the Early Republic, so I would think that would prevent someone from running away with things easily.

That's the way it should be played. The Early Republic phase is survival and building your base for the rest of the game.

[The Larch]

I will check it out later.

Early Republic -altough being the best learning scenario since you dont have to worry much about provinces or internal intrique since you are fighting for mere survival- with noobs used to gravitate heavily toward either total defeat, or Scipio Africanus just pwning everyone in terms of influence.

The problem with noobs is that they also don't realize the real danger that some situations pose at that point. We lost one game once because a noob got pissed because his general was being passed over in favour of Scipio for the Punic wars, so he assasinated him, with the 2nd Punic War and Hannibal active and overrunning Rome. Of course, the Republic collapsed.

[Tamas]

Well, the new edition (and maybe the old one, too?) offers the chance to play a "campaign game" that just continues right on from the Early Republic, so I would think that would prevent someone from running away with things easily.

yeah the real meat is the campaign game, its just  it takes (took) a game-aware crowd: in the old game having a guy of yours reach 35 Influence meant auto-victory, and Scipio has no trouble accumulating that unless he is taken care of promptly after he does his job.

[Tamas]

I once played a PBEM game where one of the players was a really cool mathematics professor from Barcelona. Every turn he sent us these detailed probability analysises in terms of army/fleet building and war-waging options, it was pretty neat and helpful. 

[The Larch]

Well, the new edition (and maybe the old one, too?) offers the chance to play a "campaign game" that just continues right on from the Early Republic, so I would think that would prevent someone from running away with things easily.

yeah the real meat is the campaign game, its just  it takes (took) a game-aware crowd: in the old game having a guy of yours reach 35 Influence meant auto-victory, and Scipio has no trouble accumulating that unless he is taken care of promptly after he does his job.

IMO, Scipio can be "saved" just for the 2nd Punic war, which is the real monster. The 1st Punic can be dealt with by a generic Field Consul, one of my guys with 4 Military dealt with it without many problems. The real danger is when Hamilcar or Hannibal appears and stack with one of the first two Punics. Then it's panic mode.

[The Larch]

IMO, the best way to play the Early Republic is by having a tacit agreement not to piss at each other at the beginning, and total cooperation until at least the 2nd Punic is dealt with, while at the same time avoiding the accumulation of Influence by Scipio or having a certain faction becoming too powerful. After that, it's each faction by itself and business as usual in the Senate.

This can of course go out of the window in many ways, and a mortality chit in the wrong moment can change a whole game.

[Delirium]

Yeah, the old RoR usually meant a collapse of Rome due to an overload of Puns, and if not came down to a chance of assassinating Scipio before he reached 35 influence to keep it going. In my opinion the design is flawed, it takes several games worth of experience and the ability to convince your group that the game has to be played in a certain way to extend it beyond the first hour, campaign or no campaign. Of course we usually played it getting warmed up before parties so nobody gave a damn.

Republic of Rome is one of those games that sound much better when you talk about it afterwards than when actually played, much like Mel Brooks movies.

[Tamas]

Mid-republic starts should work better, no?

[The Larch]

Yeah, the old RoR usually meant a collapse of Rome due to an overload of Puns, and if not came down to a chance of assassinating Scipio before he reached 35 influence to keep it going. In my opinion the design is flawed, it takes several games worth of experience and the ability to convince your group that the game has to be played in a certain way to extend it beyond the first hour, campaign or no campaign. Of course we usually played it getting warmed up before parties so nobody gave a damn.

Republic of Rome is one of those games that sound much better when you talk about it afterwards than when actually played, much like Mel Brooks movies.

IMO, besides the Puns, the other real killer is the Unrest table. A bad roll can send things to hell and back. We were very careful with that, and managed to cap it at 4 during all the Early Republic, which is good, but in other games it can skyrocket easily, with very few options to lower it. It's very easy to get into a vicious cycle of military defeats and growing unrest.

The new edition is tweaked, though. Wars don't accumulate so easily, or at least that was my impression, so they can be dealt with in a better way. You still need a playing group with a team mentality, though.

[The Larch]

Mid-republic starts should work better, no?

Personally, I think that lacks in "flavour", so to speak. I must be a massochist, but I actually like the Early Republic. 

[Delirium]

The new edition is tweaked, though. Wars don't accumulate so easily, or at least that was my impression, so they can be dealt with in a better way. You still need a playing group with a team mentality, though.

I believe that it is an improvement, but team mentality is one thing and "Okay. Stevie, you have the one guy that can beat these wars and keep us from losing the game but if you do you'll almost certainly win, so how about not winning and going into voluntary exile instead, okay?" is another.

[The Larch]

The new edition is tweaked, though. Wars don't accumulate so easily, or at least that was my impression, so they can be dealt with in a better way. You still need a playing group with a team mentality, though.

I believe that it is an improvement, but team mentality is one thing and "Okay. Stevie, you have the one guy that can beat these wars and keep us from losing the game but if you do you'll almost certainly win, so how about not winning and going into voluntary exile instead, okay?" is another.

IMO, the way to solve that is through "panic management", so to speak. That is, you don't want to give Scipio the reins of everything from the first moment he's in the game. The 1st Punic can be dealt with without him, as well as Hamilcar. In the worse moments, a combination of some other guy as Dictator with an able Master of Horse can work well, and there's another general available, Cuncator, that can also be used. You need Scipio to void the Disaster/Standoff results, and those get dangerous only if the two Punics stack up and/or Hannibal appears. If you limit Scipio's involvement to just the key moments, he won't get enough influence to automatically win.

[Delirium]

I don't disagree, but I remember it as very difficult to avoid all those special results and sooner or later you find yourself calling on Scipio's door once again.

There was a house rule posted on BGG I think that causes secondary wars to not become active immediately so you had time to fix them one at a time, it worked reasonably well.

[The Larch]

I don't disagree, but I remember it as very difficult to avoid all those special results and sooner or later you find yourself calling on Scipio's door once again.

There was a house rule posted on BGG I think that causes secondary wars to not become active immediately so you had time to fix them one at a time, it worked reasonably well.

Yup, the problem is when the special results stack up. 1st Punic has two, Hamilcar has another two, the 2nd Punic has three and IIRC Hannibal gives another two. Up to 3-4 can be managed, but more than that and you need Scipio no matter what.

As for that house rule, that's actually what I felt was tweaked in the new edition. Wars are more gradual, they don't come all at once. We only had two simultaneous wars in our last game, the 2nd Punic + Hannibal and the Syrian war, although the 2nd Illyrian and one of the Macedonians were around. We were lucky with the New Aliance event as well, which allowed us to postpone the Macedonian War.