Mass Effect 2

[Barrister]

The question is:  To what extent does the aside of PC gaming damage the core business, which is console gaming?  When you're talking about piracy, that's difficult to quantify.  Given the costs related to porting the game to PC, I don't think it's quite so clearcut as you seem to suggest.

As in: how many people have both a console and a PC?  How many people purchase neither a console or PC version, instead preferring to pirate the PC version?

Interesting analysis.

[Slargos]

The discussors need to get back to looking at profit and costs, not number of pirates.  Why should i decide to make $10,000 in profit with 2 pirates when I could make $1,000,000 in profits with 200 pirates?

It is bad business to lose sight of the objective.  Maybe you can redirect the discussion back to the proper topic.

The question is:  To what extent does the aside of PC gaming damage the core business, which is console gaming?  When you're talking about piracy, that's difficult to quantify.  Given the costs related to porting the game to PC, I don't think it's quite so clearcut as you seem to suggest.

In what way do you figure it would hurt console business to release a PC port?

[Barrister]

In what way do you figure it would hurt console business to release a PC port?

If a person owns both a PC and a console?  And if you assume that console versions are much harder to pirate than PC versions?

[Slargos]

The question is:  To what extent does the aside of PC gaming damage the core business, which is console gaming?  When you're talking about piracy, that's difficult to quantify.  Given the costs related to porting the game to PC, I don't think it's quite so clearcut as you seem to suggest.

As in: how many people have both a console and a PC?  How many people purchase neither a console or PC version, instead preferring to pirate the PC version?

Interesting analysis.

I'm highly sceptical of these kinds of estimations, even if only speaking from my own view point. Of the games I've pirated I would've probably bought no more than 10% of them without the piracy option, if that.

If piracy were to vanish over night, I doubt you'd see a huge boost in sales numbers, but you WOULD see a pretty large drop off in total number of players for each game. I think this would potentially actually hurt some developers, as fewer players means less interest and buzz.

[DisturbedPervert]

Let them exit.  Three quarters of a million is a lot of units.  I doubt the 360 sold that much more, and that it is a significant chunk of sales.  If they don't want it, there will be other rpg makers to more than happy take those units

Of course, then they will also get eaten up by EA, but that's the way things always go.

[DisturbedPervert]

As in: how many people have both a console and a PC?  How many people purchase neither a console or PC version, instead preferring to pirate the PC version?

Interesting analysis.

I bet more people do neither.  They go to Blockbuster and rent the console version for $5, or have a Gamefly account.

[Slargos]

In what way do you figure it would hurt console business to release a PC port?

If a person owns both a PC and a console?  And if you assume that console versions are much harder to pirate than PC versions?

A faulty assumption, to be sure.

Speaking for the XBOX, the "chipping" for my first gen XBOX was done with a screwdriver and IIRC a simple chip flashing.

I never got my 360 flashed since I expected to be using it for LIVE but the way I understand it, it's possible to chip it in such a fashion as to leave LIVE a possibility.

Sure, it's a bit more work than for a PC game, but it's a one-off operation and once you've done it, it's just a matter of downloading the games. I would even go so far as to call it a superior option for people who will go ahead and buy anyway since it leaves the option to save games to the HD and not have to switch discs to play a new game.

So MUCH harder? No.

Can't speak for the Wii or the PS3, though.

[Barrister]

I'm highly sceptical of these kinds of estimations, even if only speaking from my own view point. Of the games I've pirated I would've probably bought no more than 10% of them without the piracy option, if that.

If piracy were to vanish over night, I doubt you'd see a huge boost in sales numbers, but you WOULD see a pretty large drop off in total number of players for each game. I think this would potentially actually hurt some developers, as fewer players means less interest and buzz.

I suspect you're right on the first count.  Most pirates won't buy in any event.  However converting even 10% or pirated copies could be fairly lucrative.

Second, I seriously think you overestimate "buzz".  In fact any time I check out a game board I am blown away by how negative the places are.  I've seen horrible, scathing things about DA:O which by all reasoned accounts is a wonderful game.

[Barrister]

I never got my 360 flashed since I expected to be using it for LIVE but the way I understand it, it's possible to chip it in such a fashion as to leave LIVE a possibility.

I believe I read about MS banning several million 360s from using LIVE due to modding/chipping.

That's right - not banning the users, but banning the actual console.  They can never be used on Liva again.  Supposedly you can get a hell of a deal on a used, banned 360 on EBay.

So yeah, much more difficult.

[DisturbedPervert]

Playing games that have yet to be released on Live is a sure fire way to get banned.

[DisturbedPervert]

Supposedly you can get a hell of a deal on a used, banned 360 on EBay.

Low price pirate ready 360 with free 10 game bundle available now!

[Slargos]

I'm highly sceptical of these kinds of estimations, even if only speaking from my own view point. Of the games I've pirated I would've probably bought no more than 10% of them without the piracy option, if that.

If piracy were to vanish over night, I doubt you'd see a huge boost in sales numbers, but you WOULD see a pretty large drop off in total number of players for each game. I think this would potentially actually hurt some developers, as fewer players means less interest and buzz.

I suspect you're right on the first count.  Most pirates won't buy in any event.  However converting even 10% or pirated copies could be fairly lucrative.

Second, I seriously think you overestimate "buzz".  In fact any time I check out a game board I am blown away by how negative the places are.  I've seen horrible, scathing things about DA:O which by all reasoned accounts is a wonderful game.

Most, ironically, likely from the players who pirated the game in the first place. 

[Slargos]

I never got my 360 flashed since I expected to be using it for LIVE but the way I understand it, it's possible to chip it in such a fashion as to leave LIVE a possibility.

I believe I read about MS banning several million 360s from using LIVE due to modding/chipping.

That's right - not banning the users, but banning the actual console.  They can never be used on Liva again.  Supposedly you can get a hell of a deal on a used, banned 360 on EBay.

So yeah, much more difficult.

Only if you want to play multiplayer.

[Barrister]

Most, ironically, likely from the players who pirated the game in the first place. 

You, almost by accident, raise a good point.  (blind squirrel, finding acorn, all that)

A major title like ME2, DA:O MW2, sure as hell does not rely on 'buzz' to generate sales.  They're trying to push a massive release day explosion.  They do that by keeping the lid on early releases, 'buying' reviews through early access and advertising dollars, and shipping boat-loads of games.

[DisturbedPervert]

A major title like ME2, DA:O MW2, sure as hell does not rely on 'buzz' to generate sales.  They're trying to push a massive release day explosion.  They do that by keeping the lid on early releases, 'buying' reviews through early access and advertising dollars, and shipping boat-loads of games.

I disagree with Dragon Age.  It isn't really in the same category as a mega franchise like Call of Duty or a shooty rpg.  Here are console sales figures for November, DA came out Nov 3.  It's a nerdy rpg with lots of reading, not a shooter or action game. I imagine negative buzz is from people who didn't realize this.

   1. Modern Warfare 2 (360) -- 4.20M
   2. Modern Warfare 2 (PS3) -- 1.87M
   3. New Super Mario Brothers (Wii) -- 1.39M
   4. Assassin's Creed 2 (360) -- 794.7K
   5. Left 4 Dead 2 (360) -- 744.0K
   6. Wii Sports Resort (Wii) -- 720.2K
   7. Wii Fit Plus (Wii) -- 679.0K
   8. Assassin's Creed 2 (PS3) -- 448.4K
   9. Dragon Age: Origins (360) -- 362.1K
  10. Mario Kart w/Wheel (Wii) -- 315.0K