Swine Flu

[merithyn]

You are like Sarah Palin complaining about right wing extremists.

Because I disagree with getting flu shots I'm now an extremist?

I see the value in some vaccines, so I'm obviously not on the rabid anti-vaccine end of things. (Once again, my kids' vaccines are all up-to-date.) At the same time, I don't believe in all of the media hype that's going around, nor the claptrap that just because we have a vaccine we should all get it or we're putting the entire world at risk of death. (I don't believe that all vaccines are created equally, nor that all vaccines are necessary.)

There is a happy medium, Berk. Believe it or not, in the real world - as opposed to the Languish meme one - some people can agree with some aspects of an argument and not with others. It's actually not even that unusual beyond the world of Languish.

[Jaron]

You are like Sarah Palin complaining about right wing extremists.

Because I disagree with getting flu shots I'm now an extremist?

Yes.

[DontSayBanana]

Incidentally, the shot's only 68% effective. Have fun everyone. 

But not getting the shot is 0% effective.

Another point for my case: getting the shot would be 100% effective.  At triggering a psychotic break.  I have a violent phobia of needles.

[Drakken]

Incidentally, the shot's only 68% effective. Have fun everyone. 

But not getting the shot is 0% effective.

Another point for my case: getting the shot would be 100% effective.  At triggering a psychotic break.  I have a violent phobia of needles.

Lucky you, in the US you can have the vaccine through nasal spray.

[Berkut]

You are like Sarah Palin complaining about right wing extremists.

Because I disagree with getting flu shots I'm now an extremist?

I don't think I said that.

I see the value in some vaccines, so I'm obviously not on the rabid anti-vaccine end of things. (Once again, my kids' vaccines are all up-to-date.) At the same time, I don't believe in all of the media hype that's going around,

As opposed to those of us who are big believers in "media hype". I know I am.

nor the claptrap that just because we have a vaccine we should all get it or we're putting the entire world at risk of death. (I don't believe that all vaccines are created equally, nor that all vaccines are necessary.)

Strawman. And calling the recommendation that people get a flu shot "claptrap" and some kind of conspiracy driven by "media hype" is definitely pushing the kookiness boundaries a bit Meri.

There is a happy medium, Berk. Believe it or not, in the real world - as opposed to the Languish meme one - some people can agree with some aspects of an argument and not with others. It's actually not even that unusual beyond the world of Languish.

Yeah, the happy medium is getting a flu shot when almostthe entirety of the medical community recommends it.

I did not say you were an extremist, just that you were neighbors with them, so your faux outrage is rather odd. Each to his own and all that though. But really, you are not in the "happy medium".

[Jaron]

owned.

[katmai]

First they tried to fluoridate us, now that want to inoculate us!

[Grey Fox]

Drakken, seriously, how much are they paying you?

[merithyn]

As opposed to those of us who are big believers in "media hype". I know I am.

I do believe that the media hypes the dangers of these things up because the media hypes up anything that they think will sell a story. They focus on those "healthy" individuals who die of the H1N1. They don't discuss the communities who have dealt with H1N1 and not had a single death. Instead, they go to the one where H1N1 broke out and a 13-year-old hockey player drops dead in 48 hours.

The media is never balanced. Ever. So yes, there is media hype on how bad H1N1 is. Do I think it's a conspiracy? No more than leading with the tragic car accident and then discussing the Spelling Bee is a conspiracy. It's what the media does.

Strawman. And calling the recommendation that people get a flu shot "claptrap" and some kind of conspiracy driven by "media hype" is definitely pushing the kookiness boundaries a bit Meri.

What I'm calling "claptrap" is the idea that one "has" to get the flu shot just because it's available. I have no opinion on those who choose to get the flu shot. That's their decision to make, just as it's mine to say no. The "claptrap" is the pressure being placed on those who choose not to.

Yeah, the happy medium is getting a flu shot when almostthe entirety of the medical community recommends it.

I did not say you were an extremist, just that you were neighbors with them, so your faux outrage is rather odd. Each to his own and all that though. But really, you are not in the "happy medium".

Because I don't believe that getting a flu shot is essential to life? It may not be the choice you'd make, but surely not so extreme as to be "out there" with Sarah Palin questioning the extreme Right.

But as you said, to each their own opinion.

[Malthus]

The implementation of the program here in Toronto has so far been craptastic.

My wife took Carl to get vaccinated; the wait was 6 hours, and she was lucky to get in at all.  There were only 2 clinics open - for a city of nearly 3 million people. 

[viper37]

Meri, please, don't trust the media when they talk about science

It's hard, but we have to make a difference between media hype and scientific facts.  And the facts are clear:  the disease is potentially lethal, getting the vaccine is better than getting the disease, the vaccine is the best defense against a mutation of the disease and if it happens, against the mutated virus.

Now, even if the media were to tell you everyone is going to die, that's not true.  Look at the Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918.  Not everybody got it, not everyone died of it.

However, there is a simple remedy: a vaccine.  There's no dangers with vaccines, for most poeple.   Those suffering from allergies of immune system disease should of course consult their doctors, like they do for everything.  But everyone else should get the vaccine.  Especially the kids.

Why?

Simple, really.
The more vaccinated people we have, the less interruptions there will be to our way of lives.  Imagine coming at work and 1/4 of the workforce is not there this morning... How is this going to affect the performance of the company?  Multiply that by 2 weeks and by, say, half the number of companies in any given area.

You see what it did to Mexico when they were it?  Were there 10 millions dead in the city?  No, of course not.
But there was widespread panic, there was a quarantine on the country, all flights to and from Mexico were suspended, and many US hospitals near Mexico were overwhelmed with patients, wich is exactly what we are seeing now.

A vaccine costs 8$ to the government.  Having someone in intensive care costs 500$ a day + the drugs to stabilize him.

I think it's cost effective.  Therefore warranted.

It's not simply about dying or living, if that was the choice, nearly everyone would get it.
The choice is with taking the chance of being sick & transmitting the disease or getting the vaccine and stopping the disease in its track.

Of course it's a chance.  It's a probability, not a certitude.  It's the same thing as going to a Christmas party with half of your family sick with the flu.  There's a good chance you'll get it yourself in a few days.  But there's also a possibility that you won't be sick.

[viper37]

The implementation of the program here in Toronto has so far been craptastic.

My wife took Carl to get vaccinated; the wait was 6 hours, and she was lucky to get in at all.  There were only 2 clinics open - for a city of nearly 3 million people. 

That's impossible.  Michael Moore assured us that we did not wait at all for our health care.

[Berkut]

The implementation of the program here in Toronto has so far been craptastic.

My wife took Carl to get vaccinated; the wait was 6 hours, and she was lucky to get in at all.  There were only 2 clinics open - for a city of nearly 3 million people. 

Holy crap, what a mess.

Here we just go to our doctor for the shot.

Although there are certainly shortages. I am not sure why Jake and Melanie's ped has it available, because I know many do not. It could be because they are both considered to be at risk.

Of course Jake won't be getting it tomorrow as planned anyway, since he has a fever today. Not really sure it is the flu though - he has a fever and cough, but no aches, no headache, no nausea. So far, anyway.

He is enjoying the four day weekend, actually.

[Malthus]

The implementation of the program here in Toronto has so far been craptastic.

My wife took Carl to get vaccinated; the wait was 6 hours, and she was lucky to get in at all.  There were only 2 clinics open - for a city of nearly 3 million people. 

Holy crap, what a mess.

Here we just go to our doctor for the shot.

Although there are certainly shortages. I am not sure why Jake and Melanie's ped has it available, because I know many do not. It could be because they are both considered to be at risk.

Of course Jake won't be getting it tomorrow as planned anyway, since he has a fever today. Not really sure it is the flu though - he has a fever and cough, but no aches, no headache, no nausea. So far, anyway.

He is enjoying the four day weekend, actually.

In Ontario it goes by city. In some smaller cities in this province, the vaccine was distributed to docs who then gave it to patients - seems to me the sensible method.

Here in Toronto, for whatever reason, they didn't give it to the docs but set up public clinics instead. Bad move. The result has been chaos.

[Grey Fox]

Seems that the date for heathly adult is December 7th.

We're all going to be dead by then!