Swine Flu

[Malthus]

BB, there was a story on the CBC National radio news report about how well the vaccinations were rolled out in the Yukon.  Ironically that story followed directly on the heels of a story about how Iggy was critical of the Government for giving authority to the regions as to how best to role out their programs.

That may be the last nail in Iggies coffin.  He has revealed himself as a true central authority Liberal in the old mold.  Not sure if he had this in mind when he hired Donolo as his chief of staff but he now has to live with that.

What I don't understand is this: the actual supply of the vaccine is federal. How come the Yukon has enough seemingly for everyone, whereas the major provinces don't?

It isn't something the Yukon is doing *right*, because as far as I know the actual amount of vaccine isn't something the province or territory has any control over.

The way I understand it is that each region was given the same per capita amounts.  If our health minister (BC) is to be believed, Ontario ran into trouble when they didn't ration the vaccinations according to the protocols that were intially informally agreed to by all the health care providers accross the country.  Apparently the Ontario government allowed the vaccinations to be given to anyone who showed up without any prescreening for whether they fit into the group that should have received it.  Also that added to confusion about who should and should not recieve the shot because media in Ontario were reporting a protocol that didnt apply in BC (as an example).

Also, areas that do not have easy access to health care were given priority.  So for example in the North of BC the vaccinations are easier to come by.  I assume that is the same for the Yukon.

And for your cynical central Canadian soul, the reason the Yukon was being praised for its roll out is Whitehorse is doing innovative things like converting their recreational centres into innoculations centres and giving everone free passes to enjoy the amenities whil they wait for their shots (which are very well organized).

From BB's post upthread:

Funny though they're giving the shots to everyone up here.

Seems that if there was a "protocol" insisting on "prescreening for high risk groups", the much-praised Yukon program didn't get the memo.

The rollout in Ontario lasted one day before they announced that they had run out - in Toronto, only two centres were open, and they closed the line an hour after rollout started. My wife was in the line and just made it in (Carl's in the high risk group).

So I say that the "explaination" that the Ontarians were giving the vaccine to everyone and that is why they ran out, and that Ontario had the same per capita amount of vaccine as the Yukon = obviously untrue, based on the facts. How can the Yukon hand the stuff out like candy to everyone no problem (according to BB) , and Ontario shuts down after one hour if they all had the same per capita amount? 

[Grey Fox]

Yukon had 50,000 doses of the Vaccine by Oct 21st.

That's right, before it was approved.

[crazy canuck]

Seems that if there was a "protocol" insisting on "prescreening for high risk groups", the much-praised Yukon program didn't get the memo.

The rollout in Ontario lasted one day before they announced that they had run out - in Toronto, only two centres were open, and they closed the line an hour after rollout started. My wife was in the line and just made it in (Carl's in the high risk group).

So I say that the "explaination" that the Ontarians were giving the vaccine to everyone and that is why they ran out, and that Ontario had the same per capita amount of vaccine as the Yukon = obviously untrue, based on the facts. How can the Yukon hand the stuff out like candy to everyone no problem (according to BB) , and Ontario shuts down after one hour if they all had the same per capita amount?

Re-read my post you grumpy central Canadian urban elite.

people without easy access to medical care got priority.  That includes Whitehorse.  For all BB's defence of the place it is still a minor community that has to medivac its serious cases out to other urban centres.  Therefore it got priority.  I have no problem with that.

Ontario ran out because they screwed up on who they gave it too - eg all comers.  Of course they ran out doing that.

[Grey Fox]

I heard that Alberta ran out too?

[Malthus]

Seems that if there was a "protocol" insisting on "prescreening for high risk groups", the much-praised Yukon program didn't get the memo.

The rollout in Ontario lasted one day before they announced that they had run out - in Toronto, only two centres were open, and they closed the line an hour after rollout started. My wife was in the line and just made it in (Carl's in the high risk group).

So I say that the "explaination" that the Ontarians were giving the vaccine to everyone and that is why they ran out, and that Ontario had the same per capita amount of vaccine as the Yukon = obviously untrue, based on the facts. How can the Yukon hand the stuff out like candy to everyone no problem (according to BB) , and Ontario shuts down after one hour if they all had the same per capita amount?

Re-read my post you grumpy central Canadian urban elite.

people without easy access to medical care got priority.  That includes Whitehorse.  For all BB's defence of the place it is still a minor community that has to medivac its serious cases out to other urban centres.  Therefore it got priority.  I have no problem with that.

Ontario ran out because they screwed up on who they gave it too - eg all comers.  Of course they ran out doing that.

Note that Yukon was giving it out to all commers. Yet they didn't run out.

It is easy to run a "great program" - when you get more resources. Somehow, the Yukon got enough vaccine to vaccinate everyone. That isn't a reason to praise the Yukon program - more a reason to praise the feds, for giving them priority.

OTOH, it is impossible to run a good program when the resources are insufficient. While it is true that the Ontario program was a mess, particularly in Toronto, the fact remains that it was mostly caused by an insufficiency of vaccine. Two clinics open for one hour is not enough for a city of almost three million people, no matter how they screened them.

[crazy canuck]

Note that Yukon was giving it out to all commers. Yet they didn't run out.

I am not sure it if is my terrible writing or you not actually reading what I write.

They Yukon is one of those regions that got priority shipments.  You and I are not in an isolated community without easy access to the state of the art health care in this country and so we didnt.

Of course Toronto ran out of Vaccine and Yukon didnt.  They didnt send out 40 millions doses.  They sent out doses as they were produced to all the regions and some provinces messed up in their delivery so that the first batch didnt go to all the people that should have recieved it.  You repeating that the Yukon didnt run out doesnt change that fact.

[BuddhaRhubarb]

well no fever. so It was just a sinus headache. A cold, I guess. feeling better today but still a bit logy from headachy sleep.

[Faeelin]

It's broken out in the Law Review Office, but people who are manifestly sick and feverish wont' leave.

Whatev, I've been vaccinated. Bring it on, Apollo.

[crazy canuck]

well no fever. so It was just a sinus headache. A cold, I guess. feeling better today but still a bit logy from headachy sleep.

Good news.

[Josephus]

The way I understand it is that each region was given the same per capita amounts.  If our health minister (BC) is to be believed, Ontario ran into trouble when they didn't ration the vaccinations according to the protocols that were intially informally agreed to by all the health care providers accross the country.  Apparently the Ontario government allowed the vaccinations to be given to anyone who showed up without any prescreening for whether they fit into the group that should have received it.  Also that added to confusion about who should and should not recieve the shot because media in Ontario were reporting a protocol that didnt apply in BC (as an example).

Yeah.

Here at work I have quite a few "for examples."

A woman and her son (aged 10) getting vacinated on Friday. None of which are in the "high risk" category.
A woman and her son (aged 13) getting vaccinated on Sunday. None of which are in the "high risk" category.

Imminization of entire families. For instance, if I am a parent of four children, one of whom is under 5, (the cutoff age for high priority), I could line up with my entire family and get immunized.

The Ontario policy, so far, seems to have been: "If you're willing to line up, then we'll vaccinate you."


EDIT: I'M actually counting on everyone at work jumping the queue. That way if everyone I work with is immunized, there's less reason for me to bother. 

[Malthus]

Note that Yukon was giving it out to all commers. Yet they didn't run out.

I am not sure it if is my terrible writing or you not actually reading what I write.

They Yukon is one of those regions that got priority shipments.  You and I are not in an isolated community without easy access to the state of the art health care in this country and so we didnt.

Of course Toronto ran out of Vaccine and Yukon didnt.  They didnt send out 40 millions doses.  They sent out doses as they were produced to all the regions and some provinces messed up in their delivery so that the first batch didnt go to all the people that should have recieved it.  You repeating that the Yukon didnt run out doesnt change that fact.

You are missing my point - which is that praising a roll-out in a region that got special resources makes no sense. Of course the Yukon roll-out was "better" than the Ontario one - they got fully stocked and Ontario didn't. That would be true no matter what Ontario did.

Plus, I don't for a minute think that "Ontario messed up" explains Ontario running out in an hour at 2 clinics for all of Toronto. That isn't enough vaccine to give to high-risk groups no matter how dilligently they screened. 

To my mind, the fault for that falls at least in part on the feds. Allegedly, Ontario got 70,000 doses. Dunno if that is true or not, but that's what I heard. If true, no wonder the roll out was a fiasco - 70,000 for a province of what, 13 million people?

Now admittedly, the Ontario roll-out was a disaster, but the fact is that even if they had done it properly, it would still have been a disaster.

[crazy canuck]

You are missing my point - which is that praising a roll-out in a region that got special resources makes no sense.

Now I know you are not actually reading my posts.  The praise for the roll out has NOTHING to do with wether or not they ran out.  The priase for the roll out was the way in which they organized it by anticipating the long lines and organizing events to accomodate that.

This has nothing to do with you and the reason why Ontario ran out.  This is about how well the Yukon dealt with the crowds.  They recieved no special resources with that.  It was just plain old fashion ingenuity.

[Grey Fox]

I'm confused.

What did the feds do right/wrong?

I think it's obvious that Ontario's problem is that they couldn't screen their first week properly. Only 70k doses for 13 millions is not enough sure, but you aren't suppose to vaccinate everybody in the first week.

[crazy canuck]

I'm confused.

What did the feds do right/wrong?

I think it's obvious that Ontario's problem is that they couldn't screen their first week properly. Only 70k doses for 13 millions is not enough sure, but you aren't suppose to vaccinate everybody in the first week.

The quote I heard from Iggy this morning is that the Feds should never have given control to the provinces over how the vaccine would be distributed.  He is clearly playing to the Ontario crowd where the screw up occurred.  But that will not play well at all in the West or Quebec.

[Grey Fox]

Shit no.