Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Razgovory]

I do not contest that the settlers are violent thugs; I am contesting the that Christian population is "well tolerated" in Palestine.  You don't drive out 80% of the population through toleration, a foretaste of a one state solution.  The Christian population in Israeli is growing on the other hand. 

People go where the economic opportunity exists.  Palestinian Christians in Israel are discriminated against, but can claim some protection from the Israeli courts. Palestinian Christians in the West Bank face having their land stolen by Israeli settlers without compensation, their houses and cars burned down, and their very lives taken away.  So those that can go to the Americas and Europe.

None of this tells me they are well tolerated by Hamas or the PA who also take their land without compensation, beat, rape and kill them.

[Admiral Yi]

None of this tells me they are well tolerated by Hamas or the PA who also take their land without compensation, beat, rape and kill them.

What is your source for this allegation?  I have never heard of it.

[Razgovory]

None of this tells me they are well tolerated by Hamas or the PA who also take their land without compensation, beat, rape and kill them.

What is your source for this allegation?  I have never heard of it.

https://jcpa.org/article/demographics-dont-lie-the-christian-population-in-pa-and-hamas-controlled-areas-is-declining/#:~:text=Besides%20the%20physical%20property%20desecration,into%20the%20general%20Muslim%20population.

Palestinian Christians report systematic employment discrimination, forcing many to leave their communities to seek opportunities elsewhere. Studies show Christians in the West Bank feel excluded from leadership positions, weakening their social influence.29 A 2022 study indicated a strong desire among Gaza's Christian population to emigrate, twice as strong as that of Muslims. This explains how the Christian population of Gaza dwindled from 5,000 people before Hamas took control to just 1,000 in October 2023. They cited economic and social issues, corruption, security concerns, and religious persecution since Hamas took control in 2007. Reports document violence and discrimination against Christians in Gaza, leading to a significant decline in population.30

Palestinian Christians have also encountered significant obstacles in housing and property rights, both purchasing and selling land. Even internationally recognized holy sites in the West Bank are threatened, vandalized, and desecrated by the PA without consequence.31

This has been a long-standing practice, with Fatah and Arafat's intelligence network intimidating and maltreating the Christian population in Bethlehem with extortion, and confiscation of land and property. They "left them to the mercy of street gangs and other criminal activity, with no protection."32 The PA's judicial system also does not ensure equal protection to Christian landowners. In Bethlehem, a Muslim family from Hebron took possession of the Christian Comtsieh family's land and built a business center atop it without permission. While the Comtsieh family initially won in court, the judge reversed his judgment with no due course.33 In January 2022, a large group of masked men carrying sticks and iron bars attacked Christian brothers Daoud and Daher Nassar on their farm near Bethlehem. The Palestinian courts have worked to confiscate the family farm in their possession since Ottoman times.34

Christian businesses are systematically boycotted and extorted, marginalizing Christian families and pushing them toward financial ruin, with many leaving for survival.35

[Zoupa]

I dunno about you guys, but I love far-right think tank publications that cite articles from the same think tank a whopping 14 times (out of 43 references), along with sources such as twitter posts and frontpagemag.com (motto: Inside Every Progressive Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out).

The author also penned such classics as "The State of Israel's Legal Right to Judea and Samaria", "The Gaza Aid and Starvation Fraud" and the always popular "The Clear and Imminent Legal Danger Posed to Israel by the ICC".

[Josquius]

The right don't understand the way the left think and believe we're exactly the same as them only backing another team.
Film at 11.

[Gups]

So, Raz, one allegation of a land being taken in the WB (undated), one allegation of a beating (three years ago), no allegations of rape.

[Jacob]

This is the Israe-Hamas thread: https://languish.org/forums/index.php/topic,16754.0.html

Please continue the Israel discussion in that thread. Thank you.

[Razgovory]

So Hamas has come back out of their hidey holes and back to executing dissidents, I guess things are going back to normal.  https://www.cnn.com/2025/10/12/middleeast/gaza-hamas-security-war-intl

 

Hamas is reasserting control of parts of Gaza not occupied by Israeli forces as the ceasefire takes hold – amid continuing uncertainty about security in the territory if the group is disarmed.

Hamas' internal security forces were pictured on the streets of Gaza City on Saturday, and there have been multiple reports of clashes between the group and clans opposing it in recent days.

"A number of collaborators and informants were apprehended and arrested in Gaza City, after it was proven that they were involved in spying for the enemy," as well as "participating in the assassination of several resistance members," the Palestinian Home Front, a Telegram channel affiliated with Hamas, said Sunday.

"The security services and the resistance are conducting a wide-scale field campaign across all areas of the Gaza Strip, from north to south, to locate and arrest collaborators and informants," it said.

A video distributed by Hamas-affiliated Telegram channels on Saturday showed an alleged collaborator being beaten in an unknown location.

Other social media videos showed armed and masked Hamas personnel walking through a street market in Gaza City, and the Hamas-run interior ministry shared images of officers with rifles and baseball caps that read "police" in Gaza City interacting with locals.

Hamas has long held an iron grip over Gaza that continued even into the war. CNN has reported on Hamas executing and maiming alleged looters, a sign of the group's continuing power despite being weakened by Israel.

The Hamas-controlled interior ministry has declared a week-long amnesty to begin Monday for members of criminal gangs "not involved in bloodshed or killings."


But Hamas' control of Gaza has been challenged by several clans in recent months, especially in the south. Some of those groups have received protection from the Israeli military.

Social media channels affiliated with Hamas reported clashes in the Sabra area of Gaza City between a prominent family and security forces during which Muhammad Imad Aql, the son of a senior Hamas military commander, was killed.

Hamas forces surrounded the Dughmush family's neighborhood on Friday night. Sources told CNN that several members of the family had been killed, and a large number of masked, armed men had been deployed around the Jordanian hospital in Gaza City.

CNN was told Sunday that clashes continued in the area.

In southern Gaza, a group opposed to Hamas known as the Popular Forces has refused to lay down its arms.

The group has been involved in escorting aid shipments and has publicly challenged Hamas, which in turn has said it will confront what it called a criminal gang.

One of its commanders, Hussam al-Astal, posted on Facebook Saturday: "To all the Hamas rats, your tunnels are destroyed, your rights no longer exist. Repent before it's too late – there is no Hamas from today onward."


"We are trying to be an alternative to Hamas," al-Astal told Israeli network Channel 12. "They commit to psychological warfare... and they will use all their power to prove that there is no other option in the strip but them."

However, Popular Forces members are thought to have relocated behind what is known as the 'yellow line' inside southern Gaza, where Israeli forces are still present.

Unresolved questions
It is unclear how security and policing will work in Gaza in weeks and months to come.


Israel has long demanded that Hamas disarm but the group has resisted this.

US President Donald Trump's 20-point peace plan, published last week, says that "Hamas members who commit to peaceful co-existence and to decommission their weapons will be given amnesty."


It also says there will be a process of demilitarization of Gaza "under the supervision of independent monitors, which will include placing weapons permanently beyond use through an agreed process of decommissioning."

In the place of Hamas, according to the Trump plan, an International Stabilization Force (ISF) will immediately deploy to Gaza and "will train and provide support to vetted Palestinian police forces."

But critical details of the security force and a planned international oversight mechanism have yet to be worked out beyond the vague bullet points of the initial plan.

In the complex reality of Gaza's current situation, such a force could take months or longer to establish, especially amid a humanitarian crisis and massive damage to buildings and other infrastructure.


Deployment (of the ISF) in the required numbers will have to occur over some time, and will be a major logistical challenge," according to London-based think tank Chatham House.

"Issues of coordination, direction and control of an untested multinational venture of the scale required will also be formidable," it said last week.

Casualties among Gaza's police force during the two-year conflict have contributed to a deterioration in security, with looting of aid becoming commonplace.

Jordan and Egypt are expected to take the leading role in training and supervising the new police force. But it's unclear when that force will begin to patrol the streets of Gaza, and whether Hamas' internal security forces will disappear when it does.

[Josquius]

Clearly Israel didn't bomb Gaza enough.
Just like the previous dozen times.
They obviously have to do it again. Next time it'll definitely work and they'll beat Hamas by levelling Gaza.

[Admiral Yi]

Clearly Greta Thunberg needs to chant from the river to the sea some more.
Like the previous dozen times.
They obviously have to do it again.  Next time it'll definitely work and Hamas will stop killing Palestinians by sheer moral force.

[Valmy]

Clearly Greta Thunberg needs to chant from the river to the sea some more.
Like the previous dozen times.
They obviously have to do it again.  Next time it'll definitely work and Hamas will stop killing Palestinians by sheer moral force.

Didn't she actually sail there are get arrested or something? Seems bizarre to have such sneering contempt for somebody who actually put their ass on the line.

Also what exactly is your criticism here? Is there some concrete action one individual person can do that would instantly solve all these problems? I mean if US Presidents have flailed importently for decades it seems insane to direct your ire at some random powerless private person. Seems like the people who actually have power, money, and resources and still miserably fail at everything would be more worthy of your contempt.

[Admiral Yi]

Didn't she actually sail there are get arrested or something? Seems bizarre to have such sneering contempt for somebody who actually put their ass on the line.

Also what exactly is your criticism here? Is there some concrete action one individual person can do that would instantly solve all these problems? I mean if US Presidents have flailed importently for decades it seems insane to direct your ire at some random powerless private person. Seems like the people who actually have power, money, and resources and still miserably fail at everything would be more worthy of your contempt.

My criticism is that Squeeze gets what he wants, which is a cease fire and the IDF "fucks off" from at least parts of Gaza, Hamas starts shooting Palestinians, and he can't accept that's a result of exactly what he was asking for.