Defining Latino

[MadImmortalMan]

 

Man you have to have a bit of history to get that. "How is it a city if it doesn't have a cathedral???".


But for Tyr, it's actually going the other way. Twenty or thirty years ago, latinos were considered white and that was the category they would use on the census. It's only in recent years it's been split off.

[dps]

There's something like 135 different "races" rich Americans like to refer to as "latino". You can't just group everything from the Rio Grande to Punta Arenas together.

Sure you can.  Anything in the Western Hemisphere south of the Rio Grande is Latin America;  anything between Reykjavik and the Urals and north of the Mediterranean and Black Seas is Europe.

[Admiral Yi]

Bravo dps.  Well played.

[Josquius]

It's funny really that the distinction still exists in the US. In the UK the South / North European split just isn't seen as much of a thing anymore. All of Europe is considered white.
Or is it the large amount of mixing in Latin America part of the neo Latin-mess?

I think what you're doing is running the concept through your very parochial English filter and translating it as "wogs start at Calais." It's not a pejorative term.

The American media certainly does not give this impression. There seems to be a huge amount of looking down on Latino people, not that dissimilar to the way ye olde European Whites would look down on Mediterranean people.

[Admiral Yi]

The American media certainly does not give this impression. There seems to be a huge amount of looking down on Latino people, not that dissimilar to the way ye olde European Whites would look down on Mediterranean people.

I would be sincerely fascinated to see an example of this.

[MadImmortalMan]

Yeah, the thing about that is, most of the people in South America would be angry at you if you said they weren't white. It seems pretty ingrained there that the whiter, the better.

[Sheilbh]

I think that varies widely in Latin America.

That sounds like a very Argentine/Uruguayan attitude (who most other Latin Americans think is pretty racist).

The socio-economic status of white elites is very ingrained and a result of history, but my understanding is that, for example in Brazil, there's a culture of taking a lot of pride in being a very racially mixed country. Similarly in Mexico there's a really stark difference between the people you see on TVs and the people you see on the street. The elite is white, but the culture is one of taking pride in Mexico's indigenous and, again, mixed heritage. I think it's similar in the Andes and Caribbean too.

[Admiral Yi]

Yeah, the thing about that is, most of the people in South America would be angry at you if you said they weren't white. It seems pretty ingrained there that the whiter, the better.

It's strange because you think the most important part of Latino is the racial component whereas I think it's almost all about language, geography, and culture and race is a distant afterthought.  Gloria Estefan is about as Latina as they come in my mind and she's about as creamy as they come.  It's definitely not a way of saying non-white, therefore lesser in my eyes.

I've seen plenty of people on the street wearing Tshirts that say Yo Soy Latino.  Plenty of university organizations that are Latino this or that.

[celedhring]

When I filled the 2010 census form (I was still living in NYC), I remember they distinguished between "Hispanic", "Latino", and "Spanish".  Those were not considered races, that was another part of the form (black, white, mixed race, pacific is etc...).

I also was registered as "Hispanic" with my uni (the clerk told me to do so), "white" was a separate option 

I know it's supposed to track and help minorities, but the whole concept of registering my ethnicity was pretty weird.

[Josquius]

One can be proud of being a thing whilst that thing is also seen to be something else and looked down on by others.

I think that varies widely in Latin America.

That sounds like a very Argentine/Uruguayan attitude (who most other Latin Americans think is pretty racist).

The socio-economic status of white elites is very ingrained and a result of history, but my understanding is that, for example in Brazil, there's a culture of taking a lot of pride in being a very racially mixed country. Similarly in Mexico there's a really stark difference between the people you see on TVs and the people you see on the street. The elite is white, but the culture is one of taking pride in Mexico's indigenous and, again, mixed heritage. I think it's similar in the Andes and Caribbean too.

Brazil seems a lot more complicated than that. It has a pretty dark history of encouraging white people to have kids with blacks in order to make better lighter kids et al.
The rainbow nation stuff is there but there's a lot of simmering black is poor and bad whilst the ruling elites are white stuff too.
It  seems an interesting area to read up on if anyone ever comes across a good source.

[Sheilbh]

When I filled the 2010 census form (I was still living in NYC), I remember they distinguished between "Hispanic", "Latino", and "Spanish".  Those were not considered races, that was another part of the form (black, white, mixed race, pacific is etc...).

I also was registered as "Hispanic" with my uni (the clerk told me to do so), "white" was a separate option 

I know it's supposed to track and help minorities, but the whole concept of registering my ethnicity was pretty weird.

Do you all have options of "White" ethnicities?

The UK Census list:
https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/ethnic-groups

[MadImmortalMan]

"Gypsy or Irish Traveller"? 

[Admiral Yi]

Yeah, how is that an *ethnicity?*

[celedhring]

I just checked and indeed Spain doesn't track ethnicity of residents. The closest thing it asks is your nationality if you are foreign-born.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah, how is that an *ethnicity?*

How do you define ethnicity?

Roma and traveller are both considered ethnicities (one of the most discriminated against) in the UK and Ireland.