Coronavirus Sars-CoV-2/Covid-19 Megathread

[Tamas]

Analysis from the Swedish region Östergötland seems to show that about 15% of the deaths attributed to COVID-19 was directly caused by it. In the other 85% COVID-19 was either partially or not at all the cause of death.

I am glad Sweden continues to discover that their terrible mistreatment of the pandemic wasn't THAT bad, being that stringent on this statistic I assume would lead you to things like a 0% mortality rate on AIDS, since as I understand that just disables your immune system and some other shit takes you.

[Threviel]

Yes yes, cold bloodied murder of our elders and so on. Now beet it.

[Valmy]

Yes nobody actually dies of AIDS. I would guess getting Covid all up in your lungs makes you vulnerable to other things but I don't know. All this recent "deaths of Covid weren't Covid" stuff is puzzling. Is there something to it? Don't know.

[Valmy]

Yes yes, cold bloodied murder of our elders and so on. Now beet it.

I mean it is a trade off. People also die because of economic disruption.

[The Brain]

It's not weird that an illness that primarily kills the very old and already ill (some of them with one or more existing terminal illnesses) leads to some uncertainties and interpretations regarding exact cause of death.

[Tamas]

Yes nobody actually dies of AIDS. I would guess getting Covid all up in your lungs makes you vulnerable to other things but I don't know. All this recent "deaths of Covid weren't Covid" stuff is puzzling. Is there something to it? Don't know.

I am ok erring on the side of accounting too many deaths to it, because if somebody has covid but doesn't technically die of covid, I guess in a lot of cases getting seriously weakened by a novel new virus played a significant part in why the other thing took them when it did. And if you would not have died when you did if you did not catch covid, then did not covid kill you? That's like saying the driver who hit the pedestrian did not kill the pedestrian, it was the trauma to the pedestrian's head from the fall that did it.

[The Brain]

Yes yes, cold bloodied murder of our elders and so on. Now beet it.

I mean it is a trade off. People also die because of economic disruption.

My impression is that Sweden could have protected nursing homes better in the initial stages without this having any significant extra impact on economic disruption.

[Josquius]

If somebody has corona and is hit by a car then obviously that shouldn't go down as a corona death, though with the way many are keeping numbers it might.
If someone has corona and dies of another illness however, then it's perfectly valid to put down corona as a factor.

[Threviel]

I'm just reporting the latest analysis of the present data. If facts is a problem for you Tamas, well, your loss I guess.

I believe time and better data and better analysis tools will improve the picture and change our view, but at present we can only use what we know now. Tomorrow we'll know even better. That's how science works and if the result of that does not fit your pre-conceived notions, well, your loss.

[The Brain]

Yes nobody actually dies of AIDS. I would guess getting Covid all up in your lungs makes you vulnerable to other things but I don't know. All this recent "deaths of Covid weren't Covid" stuff is puzzling. Is there something to it? Don't know.

I am ok erring on the side of accounting too many deaths to it, because if somebody has covid but doesn't technically die of covid, I guess in a lot of cases getting seriously weakened by a novel new virus played a significant part in why the other thing took them when it did. And if you would not have died when you did if you did not catch covid, then did not covid kill you? That's like saying the driver who hit the pedestrian did not kill the pedestrian, it was the trauma to the pedestrian's head from the fall that did it.

I'm not aware of Sweden changing the definition of Covid-19 death (I could be wrong), at least I cannot see any change in the official statistics. I don't see any harm in looking at details regarding the disease and trying to understand as much as possible about it (which my impression is that they have done regarding Östergötland).

Many many people who die of illness at hospitals have several contributing causes of death. This is nothing unique to Covid-19.

[Zoupa]

I'm just reporting the latest analysis of the present data. If facts is a problem for you Tamas, well, your loss I guess.

I believe time and better data and better analysis tools will improve the picture and change our view, but at present we can only use what we know now. Tomorrow we'll know even better. That's how science works and if the result of that does not fit your pre-conceived notions, well, your loss.

The only measure that's trustworthy today is excess deaths. Sweden's numbers are terrible in that regard.

I believe that even in a few decades, the same measure will be used to determine the outcome of the different approaches.

It's ok to say your country fucked up you know. Nothing will happen to you.

[The Brain]

I'm just reporting the latest analysis of the present data. If facts is a problem for you Tamas, well, your loss I guess.

I believe time and better data and better analysis tools will improve the picture and change our view, but at present we can only use what we know now. Tomorrow we'll know even better. That's how science works and if the result of that does not fit your pre-conceived notions, well, your loss.

The only measure that's trustworthy today is excess deaths. Sweden's numbers are terrible in that regard.

I believe that even in a few decades, the same measure will be used to determine the outcome of the different approaches.

It's ok to say your country fucked up you know. Nothing will happen to you.

My impression is that Sweden is one of the countries with the smallest discrepancy between official Covid-19 deaths and excess mortality.

[viper37]

Yes nobody actually dies of AIDS. I would guess getting Covid all up in your lungs makes you vulnerable to other things but I don't know. All this recent "deaths of Covid weren't Covid" stuff is puzzling. Is there something to it? Don't know.

We've known this since the beginning.  Covid-19 rarely kills in itself.
But you get hyper-inflammation that kills you.
Or it attacks your weakened kidneys and you die.Or your heart struggles too much and finally stops beating as it's had enough.Or you have chemiotherapy, you chances of recovery are good, but then you get covid and it overwhelms your immune system so you die of cancer.

The important factor is how long would you have lived without covid-19.  Co-morbidity has been a factor since last winter, we know that.  If somebody does not know that by now, he's an idiot that refuses to educate himself.

[Threviel]

Well yeah, we fucked up with protecting our care homes, no doubt about that. And perhaps we should have gone into harder lockdown, seeing as the disease might be mellowing and at least is more treatable. The jury is still out on that one, we'll get to know eventually.

So yeah, there's a good chance that the Swedish response will be seen as a failure, but I think it's too early to say definitively. There's also a good chance (In my mind a better chance) that it will be seen as a good response.

The reason that I talk mostly about Swedish stuff is that that's the stuff I can contribute best with, having local access to local media.

[Zoupa]

I'm just reporting the latest analysis of the present data. If facts is a problem for you Tamas, well, your loss I guess.

I believe time and better data and better analysis tools will improve the picture and change our view, but at present we can only use what we know now. Tomorrow we'll know even better. That's how science works and if the result of that does not fit your pre-conceived notions, well, your loss.

The only measure that's trustworthy today is excess deaths. Sweden's numbers are terrible in that regard.

I believe that even in a few decades, the same measure will be used to determine the outcome of the different approaches.

It's ok to say your country fucked up you know. Nothing will happen to you.

My impression is that Sweden is one of the countries with the smallest discrepancy between official Covid-19 deaths and excess mortality.

Ok? I'm not taking about discrepancy but excess deaths themselves.