What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[Sheilbh]

I believe there have been reports about it. IIRC the bottom line was that they were willing to forgive his personal sins and foibles as long as he delivered in the areas where they were interested, mostly judicial appointments and conservative policies. Also, they see him with some heavily rose tinted glasses.-

Yeah. It's the rose-tinted glasses that fascinate me. The rest makes perfect sense.

[Razgovory]

Evangelicals are really embracing antinomialism.

[grumbler]

Yeah. It's the rose-tinted glasses that fascinate me. The rest makes perfect sense.

Agree.  Of course, this is a group of people whose entire world-view depends on them ignoring the evidence staring them in the face.  If they are willing to be delusional about the age of the earth, why not accept that they are willing to be delusional about the personality of their hero?

[Berkut]

The governor of Gerogia just cancelled an election for a new SC justice, and is simply going to appoint one himself instead.

Nobody seems to care enough to stop if from happening.

The provisions in the law existed that enabled that, however. No such provision exists for the President of the USA unilaterally declaring there will be no election in 50 States for his office.

It is a loophole, and very obviously a bullshit one.

If you can just ignore the clear intent of the law, then I am sure some "loophole" can be found for pretty much anything.

Maybe some Poles will attacks a radio station.

[FunkMonk]

It's shocking how shitty Donald has handled the protesting and rioting. It's like his superpower is making every bad situation even worse.

[Habbaku]

Okay. Do you see a similar loophole in the US federal election system that isn't all 50 States just nodding when Trump tells them not to hold an election?

[merithyn]

I have strongly recommended to every governor to deploy the National Guard in sufficient numbers that we dominate the streets. Mayors and governors must establish an overwhelming law enforcement presence until the violence has been quelled. If a city or state refuses to take the actions that are necessary to defend the life and property of their residents, then I will deploy the United States military and quickly solve the problem for them.

So, US troops to be deployed against US citizens, soon coming to a city near you!

So, this is an honest question. Can he do that? Like, I have it in my head that he can't, but I have a feeling that he can. Isn't that how Alabama ended up with integrated schools?

[Berkut]

Okay. Do you see a similar loophole in the US federal election system that isn't all 50 States just nodding when Trump tells them not to hold an election?

Not at all, but I am not arguing there is some similar loophole, I am arguing that at the end of the day, if people don't give a shit about the clear intent of the law, relying on the letter of it to dissuade those who are willing to shit all over the spirit isn't much help.

There are too many historical examples of people over-throwing democracies on some technicality to assume they cannot just come up with one, and the SC seems pretty clear they will support the President as long as there is some fig leaf of cover.

I don't think it is likely, it is just able to be contemplated. Which is incredible in and of itself.

[Admiral Yi]

So, this is an honest question. Can he do that? Like, I have it in my head that he can't, but I have a feeling that he can. Isn't that how Alabama ended up with integrated schools?

I ust read Wiki. There is an exception to the posse comitatus law carved out by the Enforcement Act of 1870 (part of Reconstruction legislation) that says the army can be deployed if citizens constitutional rights are threatened.

[DGuller]

Not at all, but I am not arguing there is some similar loophole, I am arguing that at the end of the day, if people don't give a shit about the clear intent of the law, relying on the letter of it to dissuade those who are willing to shit all over the spirit isn't much help.

That's been my concern throughout this discussion.  I think people expect democracies to be sidelined with some crafty work of a sleazy lawyer who finds all the right technicalities, but in reality with sufficient popular support it just takes some nominal bullshit and a Putin smirk.

[merithyn]

Not at all, but I am not arguing there is some similar loophole, I am arguing that at the end of the day, if people don't give a shit about the clear intent of the law, relying on the letter of it to dissuade those who are willing to shit all over the spirit isn't much help.

That's been my concern throughout this discussion.  I think people expect democracies to be sidelined with some crafty work of a sleazy lawyer who finds all the right technicalities, but in reality with sufficient popular support it just takes some nominal bullshit and a Putin smirk.

[grumbler]

That's been my concern throughout this discussion.  I think people expect democracies to be sidelined with some crafty work of a sleazy lawyer who finds all the right technicalities, but in reality with sufficient popular support it just takes some nominal bullshit and a Putin smirk.

My concern throughout this discussion is the assumptions of people like you that US civil servants, military members, jdueges, lawyers, bureaucrats, etc are just willing to sell out their entire careers for "some nominal bullshit and a Putin smirk."  If you are right and I am wrong, then there's nothing to defend in the US or western system, and your dire predictions may as well come about this as next year, since nothing can save the system you describe for more than a year or so.

Personally, I think it is just that you, Timmay, CC, and others* just love to wallow in your own doomsday scenarios.

Edit: and Meri.

[DGuller]

That's been my concern throughout this discussion.  I think people expect democracies to be sidelined with some crafty work of a sleazy lawyer who finds all the right technicalities, but in reality with sufficient popular support it just takes some nominal bullshit and a Putin smirk.

My concern throughout this discussion is the assumptions of people like you that US civil servants, military members, jdueges, lawyers, bureaucrats, etc are just willing to sell out their entire careers for "some nominal bullshit and a Putin smirk."  If you are right and I am wrong, then there's nothing to defend in the US or western system, and your dire predictions may as well come about this as next year, since nothing can save the system you describe for more than a year or so.

Personally, I think it is just that you, Timmay, CC, and others* just love to wallow in your own doomsday scenarios.

Edit: and Meri.

Personally, I think it's my greater exposure to Eastern Europe, and seeing the limitations of democratic institutions when they face off against a populace that does not accept the legitimacy of their political opposition.  Yes, I know, the US democracy is different from nascent Eastern European democracies, I sure fucking hope they're different enough.

[grumbler]

Personally, I think it's my greater exposure to Eastern Europe, and seeing the limitations of democratic institutions when they face off against a populace that does not accept the legitimacy of their political opposition.  Yes, I know, the US democracy is different from nascent Eastern European democracies, I sure fucking hope they're different enough.

You may have greater exposure to Eastern Europe, but I have greater exposure to the US government, so expertise-wise you seem to be in deficit.

[DGuller]

Personally, I think it's my greater exposure to Eastern Europe, and seeing the limitations of democratic institutions when they face off against a populace that does not accept the legitimacy of their political opposition.  Yes, I know, the US democracy is different from nascent Eastern European democracies, I sure fucking hope they're different enough.

You may have greater exposure to Eastern Europe, but I have greater exposure to the US government, so expertise-wise you seem to be in deficit.

If you remember what you expected 3.5 years ago, did the reality that follow meet your expectations, or did some things catch you off guard?