Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[alfred russel]

Of course, that is also a result of the FPtP system though. Absent that, UKIP gets very little representation, right?

Seems nuts to me that they can be the majority party representing the UK in the EU, while not being able to secure actual representation in the UK itself...

What a fucking mess.

No--the EU parliament uses proportional representation and with a plurality (but far short of a majority) of seats the UKIP does not have a majority of the UK's seats in the EU parliament.

Without going district by district, it would seem likely that the UKIP would have more seats in the EU parliament than it currently does if a FPTP system was used.

The reason the UKIP did so much better in the EU elections than in the British ones is that many voters showing up to EU elections seem prone to giving the maximum middle finger to Brussels while in domestic elections other considerations are at play.

[Valmy]

IIRC its the other way around. If the UK had a national election law that took amount of votes into actual consideration UKIP would be a sizeable force in the commons

Well if they used the EU election results of the UK parliament then the UKIP would be the largest party

[Sheilbh]

If you think replacing North American and European money with money from assorted corrupt oligarchies is a good influence, then, well, good for you.

It's not about replacing money. London's a financial centre that sells an array of products and services to markets all over the world. This is the point Mervyn King made yesterday. If we lose the passporting rights Euro denominated trades will probably move to Europe, so will clearing and money markets in the Euro. But that's a relatively small part of the City. I don't quite see how this affects the insurance brokers, fund managers, Islamic finance, shipping or legal work - to name a few. What makes London a global financial centre isn't that it does loads and loads of European work it's that it's already working with lots of America, Russian, Arab, African and Asian money and clients. As long as they follow the law and pay their taxes we should be intensely relaxed about it.

Never let a good crisis go to waste.

I like to imagine that Romans were sat back thinking 'call that a political crisis....'

farage in the Euro Parliament today.

I watched the European Parliament this morning. Juncker is still a man to give a Remain voter buyer's remorse and I predict a lot of the sneering comments are being cut into videos for populist right parties all across Europe.

I don't know about the other EU countries, but the system for electing MEPs is different to the one we use for Westminster. Instead of first past the post there is a multi-member constituency with proportional representation system. So UKIP couldn't get elected nationally but could get into the European parliament. Even the BNP managed a couple of MEPS once.

Not just PR but the d'Hondt system which even I, as someone who enjoys elections, has literally no idea or understanding of how it reaches the results it does.

IIRC its the other way around. If the UK had a national election law that took amount of votes into actual consideration UKIP would be a sizeable force in the commons

Yep. I've always supported PR in some form or other (though I'd have been happy with AV), but on a pure vote level it would leave UKIP the third largest party in the Commons with 80 MPs or so and they'd probably be in coalition with the Tories.

The reason the UKIP did so much better in the EU elections than in the British ones is that many voters showing up to EU elections seem prone to giving the maximum middle finger to Brussels while in domestic elections other considerations are at play.

Not just Brussels. It's also normally a huge protest vote against the sitting government. Like council elections but less consequential.

[Sheilbh]

Incidentally having decided the Labour Party today wasn't crazy enough, Ken Livingstone did this:

Ken Livingstone claims Home Affairs Select Committee 'obsessed with Hitler' - as he mentions him 11 times
Written by: Agnes Chambre   Posted On: 28th June 2016

Ken Livingstone has accused the Home Affairs Select Committee of being "obsessed" with Adolf Hitler.

The former mayor appeared before the committee earlier this month as part of its inquiry into anti-Semitism

​He was called to give evidence after being suspended by the Labour party after claiming in a radio interview that Hitler had supported Zionism "before he went mad and ended up killing 6 million Jews".

In a statement to the committee, he said: "The overwhelming majority of questions asked of me were about my views on the history of Germany in the 1930s, Hitler, the Nazis, Israel, Zionism and the Labour Party. Committee members seemed to be obsessed with these issues.

"I was also questioned about a number of past events involving myself, going back to the 1980s that bear no relation to the question of whether prejudice against the Jewish community has increased or the dangers facing Jewish people arising from terrorism."

He added the questioning was "at the very least a missed opportunity".

"None of the Committee members at the first session taking oral evidence probed me – or the other witnesses – on the dangers facing Jewish people arising from terrorism, despite this being a subject of the inquiry. It is also the area of this inquiry where I do have some significant experience, as I was Mayor during the most serious terrorist attack to have ever taken place in London."

In the statement, Mr Livingstone mentioned Hitler eleven times.

He said: "I do regret raising the historical points about Nazi policy in the 1930s when the specific issue of Hitler was raised by (BBC presenter) Vanessa Feltz. I regret it because there was an hysterical response from opponents of the Labour Party and of its current leadership, which will not have aided Labour's campaign for the 5 May elections.

"I am horrified by the way my remarks have been interpreted and twisted. I cannot think of a worse insult than to be called a racist or an anti-Semite. And I am sorry if what I said has caused Jewish people, or anyone else, offence. That was not my intention."

[Zanza]

Why does everybody worry about the City? It was the working class people in deindustrialised Northern England that voted Leave in masses. How about you actually care about them now that they made themselves heard? They have legitimate grievances. Although I doubt any of those will be adressed by leaving the EU.

[Admiral Yi]

Why does everybody worry about the City?

Taxes and aggregate demand.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Why exactly did AV get voted down in Britain? While we would never be stupid enough to subject our voting system to a referendum, I think it's such an obvious superiority to FPTP that it'd carry the day if we could. I'm surprised voters rejected it so strongly.

[Sheilbh]

Why does everybody worry about the City? It was the working class people in deindustrialised Northern England that voted Leave in masses. How about you actually care about them now that they made themselves heard? They have legitimate grievances. Although I doubt any of those will be adressed by leaving the EU.

It's a big part of our economy and our chance of succeeding outside of the EU depend on it doing well.

I agree on the rest - though it was every English and Welsh region with the exception of London that voted Leave not just the North - I think the lesson from this is that maybe those who've been left behind a bit by globalisation whether economically, culturally or both needs a bit more than just lip service.

[Sheilbh]

Why exactly did AV get voted down in Britain? While we would never be stupid enough to subject our voting system to a referendum, I think it's such an obvious superiority to FPTP that it'd carry the day if we could. I'm surprised voters rejected it so strongly.

The Tories ran a brutally personal campaign basically just tying it round Nick Clegg's neck.

[PJL]

Brexit has created some fallout in Switzerland as well. The Swiss also had a referendum a while ago where they decided to limit freedom of movement. They have to implement that by early next year to stay within their own constitutional limits. Implementing it would violate their treaty obligations from their so-called "bilaterals" with the EU, which means they would have to cancel the treaty that allowed freedom of movement. However, that treaty has a clause that all "bilaterals" between the EU and Switzerland will be cancelled in that case. So now they need to convince the EU that their law to set annual limits to immigration is acceptable for the EU. However, right now, they are at the end of the queue as Barrack Obama would say. Everybody will only think about the British now. As a new treaty with Switzerland would have to be ratified by each EU member, their time is running out fast.

At least our referendum was binding nor does it have a time limit for implementation. It could just be left by the wayside. Indeed, I suspect that is what could happen.

[Sheilbh]

Also Corbyn hosted his new shadow cabinet and was caught on an open mic. The atmosphere of comradely bonhomie was overpowering:
http://news.sky.com/story/1718507/jeremy-corbyn-loses-vote-of-no-confidence

The man to his left is his deputy leader

Edit: And proving that there is literally no political moment he won't misjudge apparently Andy Burnham is about to quit.

[Josquius]

Why exactly did AV get voted down in Britain? While we would never be stupid enough to subject our voting system to a referendum, I think it's such an obvious superiority to FPTP that it'd carry the day if we could. I'm surprised voters rejected it so strongly.

The Tories ran a brutally personal campaign basically just tying it round Nick Clegg's neck.

That and lies about what it meant.

[Zanza]

I watched the European Parliament this morning. Juncker is still a man to give a Remain voter buyer's remorse and I predict a lot of the sneering comments are being cut into videos for populist right parties all across Europe.

Watching Farage makes me less sad about Britain leaving. 

[garbon]

Why does everybody worry about the City? It was the working class people in deindustrialised Northern England that voted Leave in masses. How about you actually care about them now that they made themselves heard? They have legitimate grievances. Although I doubt any of those will be adressed by leaving the EU.

Well it is probably hard to easily recall sympathy for people who just had an adult temper tantrum.

[Valmy]

How about you actually care about them now that they made themselves heard? They have legitimate grievances.

Because nobody has any idea about how to do so? Solving problems caused by the technology level and state of the world economy might be beyond the ability of any government.